Just another thread asking for in-game parsing for ps4 users

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

ignorant of the opposing view

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Not ignorant. They just might be pointing out the holes in the argument you are using because of the fact you cannot possibly know the outcome if SE added an official parser; last time I checked humans cannot foresee the future like in myths and legends.

If they did add one probationary, to test it, and suddenly the game had way more rude people than now, specifically using the official parser to harass, then you could claim you were right, but...how can you claim it yet? It hasn't happened.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

labouring under some kind of delusion that just because THEY arent a complete asshole, it apparently means every single person ever that also parses, are not guilty of incredibly toxic behaviour

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There are people who are anti-parser that actually do demonize anyone who uses one even if said person never uses it beyond their personal use and never harasses anyone. I mean you have someone in this thread alone who basically reports anyone they 'think' is using one; harassment or not. So you might not be realizing that some people may be defending themselves on this point and not actually claiming that no one is guilty of toxic behavior.

The real question is would that toxic behavior still exist even if the parser didn't?

A parser is just 1's and 0's in a computer, that doesn't turn someone into a jerk all on its own. So toxic behavior is present even without a parser (all of the toxic behavior I've seen while playing this game was nothing to do with parsers and I've been playing for 4 years for example).

The problem is those rude people you may have come across, do you think if they had no parser at all they would somehow not be jerks? We don't know and that's the problem with doing all this guesswork. If a player is a rude player then without a parser they may just find anything else they can find to harass someone with.

Harassment in any form is against ToS so it really isn't any different than now. An official parser does not mean "you have permission to harass".

I posted this in another thread and it basically explains the problem with the argument of "if you add an official parser people will harass more with it".

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Originally Posted by Miste

The only thing I can say is human beings aren't fortune tellers. We can't say one way or the other if the game would turn out worse, better, or end up exactly the same as now with an official parser. We simply do not know unless they add one so doing guesswork or pretending we know how people will behave is pointless.

Before people say "...but WoW...".

Comparing this community to other MMO communities is also pointless because this community is not the same as other ones and vice versa so you cannot use another game to predict behavior in this one unless you did a very comprehensive study on the types of people playing both games, but no one has the resources or time to do such a study. The most we can do is "an educated guess" which is still nowhere near a conclusion based on fact.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

The parsers are there, yes, but it's not a official software developed or endorsed by SE, so the stance of "Dont get caught harassing people with it, and we'll look the other way", becomes alot easier, since you're not "supposed" to have it to begin with.

I love how the "pro-parser" community though seem to have this idea that a official parser wont immensely complicate the harassment reports though, because you're talking about a official software, and it's quite easy to make the case of it being there and official means A) SE wants you to use it, and B) Since they want you to use it, the line between "harassment" and "critique" becomes alot more blurry, because again you're using a officially supported tool to base your "critique" on.

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I feel like Miste summed this up quite nicely, but I would like to reiterate: are you clairvoyant? Can you see into/predict the future? How do you know that reports wouldn't be just as they are now? The argument many "pro-parsers" make in this thread is that, if SE developed and implemented an in-game, official parser, reports on blatant harassment (whether they involved said parser or not) would still be taken seriously and investigated. You make it sound almost as if this would not be the case if a parser was introduced and implemented.

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I also find it frankly astounding how many of you can only point to your own positive experience with parsers among friends and the like, while simultaneously crying foul over the people opposing parsers because of their negative experience with it.

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And yet, no where in this thread have those that are "anti-parsers" have shared any of their own negative experiences with regards to parsing. Instead, they tend to just paint all "pro-parsers" with the same brush, insinuating that "well, that one guy I met who parsed was a jerk, therefore, all people who parse are jerks.". They don't add anything constructive to the argument of why they're against parsers other than gross misconceptions, generalizations, and just, in general, negative attitudes. No one in this thread who is "pro-parser" said that all people who parse are saints, and that the bad apples are a lie. Everyone one who is for parsers has recognized and noted that these jerks exist. But, rather than allow one or two players to paint the picture of the entire pro-parser community, instead we ask for those who are so hellbent that all people who parse or who want to parse be banned indefinitely, to be a little bit more open-minded, and stop painting us all with the same brush.

I'm sure that you probably don't like people making negative generalizations or assumptions about you. Perhaps you should try to empathize with those of us who don't appreciate being called jerks just because John Doe from Jerkland decided to harass Mary on her supposedly subpar DPS.

Again, Miste summed this up quite nicely: the "toxic" behavior is already present, with or without a parser. Those inclined to be jerks will continue to be jerks without a parser, or with one. My experience, most people that were jerks in this game never brought DPS or parsing into the picture. They were just being jerks for the sake of being jerks (an example: when Weeping City was new, and people kept pulling Ozma while the alliance was trying to explain mechanics to the plethora of new people in the raid because "I don't have time to wait for silly things like helping other people with new fights and new fight mechanics"; parsers and DPS output was never mentioned here).

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I have no reason to believe that as soon as SE drops the act and openly allows parser use, we wont see PF groups with "DPS over X, or kick", and the associated hostility once people are "sub-optimal". Because god knows if you enjoy min-maxing yourself to hell and back, you apparently have the right to impose it on every single person you come across.

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These already exist. So, your point in bringing them up is...?

Again, no one is saying everyone will suddenly become Mother Theresa in this game if an official parser is introduced. Stop making false inferences.

I enjoy min-maxing myself, but I have many friends that are fine just playing super casually--they don't care about BiS, they don't care about Savage, they don't care about DPS, they don't even care about current or past Ex primals. Do I force my min-maxing playstyle on them? No. Do I force it on randoms? No. I do, however, encourage people to look into ways for self-improvement, no matter what job they play, because what's wrong with wanting to improve? However, if someone is fine being "just average" or "just as they are," well, then that's their choice. I don't agree with it, I don't understand it, but I don't harass or shame people about it.

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I regret getting involved in this topic, and it's a misstake I'll be rectifying immediately, as I have much better things to spend my time on then arguing with people both uninterested, and ignorant of the opposing view

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Uh, okay? Pot calling the kettle black here, by the way, with that last sentence of yours. You seem pretty ignorant of the "pro-parser" side of things yourself.

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Your input has been noted. Now do me a favour and toss some at the people who went on page upon page of "WHY DONT YOU AGREE?!?!?!" just because they cannot fathom how someone couldnt have the same positive experience they had parsing among friends, when playing with complete randoms, and are labouring under some kind of delusion that just because THEY arent a complete asshole, it apparently means every single person ever that also parses, are not guilty of incredibly toxic behaviour

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Actually, the majority of this thread is more like: "Parsers are bad! I may or may not have had a bad experience with them, therefore everyone who parses are bad people, and deserve to be reported and permanently banned from this game! I don't care if they use parsers for good/guides/theorycrafting/self-improvement! They are all bad!" You literally have one person who goes around reporting players based on "a hunch" that they may be "checking numbers," and who is advocating that people be banned because they stream their raids on Twitch or wherever and you see ACT in the corner. I fail to see how you missed that several-page argument.

The people arguing in this thread are, again, arguing against these select "anti-parser" posters to stop painting "pro-parsers" with the same brush.

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Either way, I'm gonna bugger off, since this echo chamber is getting rather blatant.
But I can say with certainty, that if SE ever implements a "official" parsing tool, it'll be the day my sub ends, permanently.

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Umm. Okay?

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

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I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but people don't need parsers to be giant douches and call other people out. Toxic players who berate others will always find a way to insult others. The hilarious part is that you don't realize that you are acting just like the toxic players you complain about, kind of sad really.

I think the biggest issue at hand is one of parity really. Despite the fact that SE has a don't ask don't tell policy about things, PC users have the option to use a parser, console users don't. Whether you think parsers make people jerks or not or enable them is sort of moot: for the entirety of the PC playerbase if they really wanted that ammunition to be a jerk they would be doing so. Adding PS4 users to it would just expand the pool of people who have the option, and unless people think console users are trash goblins that love spewing hate the issue is kind of moot.

Regardless of whether you like parsers or not, SE's stance and the ease of access means that as of right now the issue of whether or not introducing parsers makes people act like jerks is kind of irrelevant. For PC users the choice is the status quo and has been for years. For console players who are interested in their DPS, this just looks like a case of it being unfair.

To sort of shore up my point: regardless of the fact that SE doesn't have an official parser, unofficial alternatives perfectly fill the gap, but only for a proportion of the audience (PC users). The remaining part of the fanbase (the PS4 install base) is perfectly valid for wanting something that the rest of the community has.

Let me put this simple. 99.99% players use parser to improve themselves, which is something I don't pull out of my ass. If you want to clear savage or extreme content, which has a dps restriction to them, you better play good or not waste peoples time getting the enrage all over again and again. You don't have the right to clear content just because you pay the sub. If you can't sort your own weight out, don't moan about it, that's your own fault. Team play is a thing in this game, so act like it, instead of saying 7 others people need to carry your weight because you simply tried your best or better yet dont want to be ''elitist''. Meh some people don't get it and never will. If you want to clear shit, don't expect people to play for you, so stop act like it.

I was in a random O1S practice group that met enrage 5 times. I was second highest in damage as a tank...You know what would've helped them? Parsers.

I legit felt so bad I couldn't help clear for them because they had mechanics down pretty well.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

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The point and premise of my post is that there won't EVER be an official in-game parser in this game that lets you see how others in your party are performing. The game is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. They have a clear stance on that kind of behavior, which is exactly why they adopt this "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They want us to keep our performance to ourselves, or tight-knit static groups at most (possibly because then it is impossible to control). Other than that, it is not nor will never be OK to shun, kick from party or badmouth fellow players for reasons of performance.

SE, Yoshi-P and the devs as a whole take the official stance that they are AGAINST this behavior of "removing weakest links". Based on all official responses given to this parser subject, that is tantamount to harassment. So you and everyone else can quite surely give up hoping they will ever provide an official way of judging your fellow party member's performance. Again, SE won't ever, EVER, EVER endorse this thought process (by providing an in-game tool to be used for that purpose). This entire discussion is pointless and will ammount to absolutely nothing. As all others that came before.

I hope I made myself clear now.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

I was in a random O1S practice group that met enrage 5 times. I was second highest in damage as a tank...You know what would've helped them? Parsers.

I legit felt so bad I couldn't help clear for them because they had mechanics down pretty well.

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I would feel bad too, many times that have happened to me as well like in other fights as well. But you know, a certain person here would probably try to report you for asking them to improve, you know because you have a hint using a parser :(.

Joke aside, people who wants to clear badly but never figure out why it enrage, I would gladly help them, but since I don't know every class I can't speak for everyone, just a few of the classes I know that I could help them on.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

The point and premise of my post is that there won't EVER be an official in-game parser in this game that lets you see how others in your party are performing.

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An official SE branded parser? No, Probably not. Will there be tools available that allow for ingame parsers? Far more likely.

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The game is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive.

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Again, you're arguing a social problem, not with any mechanics of the game. There are plenty of things in game like "Duty Completed" that fosters an exclusive attitude, and "Bonus shaming" as a form of toxicity. Even the most casual of raiders who mostly PuG raids experiences this at some point, and condones it by staying silent - the same kind of thing that you would fear happen if parsers were allowed in any official capacity.

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They want us to keep our performance to ourselves, or tight-knit static groups at most (possibly because then it is impossible to control). Other than that, it is not nor will never be OK to shun, kick from party or badmouth fellow players for reasons of performance.

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Well it is a multiplayer game - you can't keep performance to yourself in any group. Sometimes it's super evident when you're not performing (bard crit buff for example), and you can't keep that to yourself. Also again, you can be kicked for "play style differences" - players are wholly within their right to do that.

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Based on all official responses given to this parser subject, that is tantamount to harassment.

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Everyone is so quick to self-victimize and cry harassment these days. Call me cynical to not buy into their victimhood at face value.

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Again, SE won't ever, EVER, EVER endorse this thought process (by providing an in-game tool to be used for that purpose).

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If SE ever does stay true to their word and gives the tools for people to create addons, they will.

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This entire discussion is pointless and will ammount to absolutely nothing. As all others that came before.

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Most discussions on this board are pointless - but you're not here for a discussion, you're here to repeat your diatribe and shout over people's heads. That is truly pointless.

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Originally Posted by DRHaymaker

If SE ever does stay true to their word and gives the tools for people to create addons, they will..

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What are you talking about? Yoshi-P already stated multiple times that he will never allow for addons in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

What are you talking about? Yoshi-P already stated multiple times that he will never allow for addons in FFXIV

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Citation needed - the only thing I find is they're silent on the subject.

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Originally Posted by DRHaymaker

Citation needed - the only thing I find is they're silent on the subject.

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https://clips.twitch.tv/EmpathicBlazingLasagnaThunBeast

Ok... how about a more useful clip. Also addons aren't limited to parsers.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Other than that, it is not nor will never be OK to shun, kick from party or badmouth fellow players for reasons of performance.
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Look, with or without parsers - harassment happens based on performance whether you like it or not.
A knowledgeable enough player doesn't need a parser to notice who isn't doing that well.
As said, the people that genuinely harass other people are just toxic people, and you don't need a parser to be a toxic person.


What's the difference between:
"Your damage is weak. Learn your job."
and
"You're only doing 2.5k when you should be at least over 3.5k".

If you ask me, the 2nd statement is actually a bit kinder.

Anyway to the main point..
It's a team game.
If one person is holding 7 other people back from clearing, it's absolutely acceptable that the person holding the group back, bows out. If not on their own account, then the leader has the right to remove them. Just like the leader has the right to remove someone because they don't like someone's attitude.. It's the party leader's choice in a party finder group.

Want to know why people get silently kicked? Because telling them the reason can be construed as harassment, and there are a lot of spiteful snowflakes in the world that can't take criticism - especially in the current generation.
Why should players who have been farming content for weeks (as an example), be held back or carry someone through the content that just isn't up to scratch with their performance?
I am an inclusive person, but I will feel a little frustrated if the party can't clear because one player fails to understand that they aren't performing well.
However, and here's the kicker - telling them (even with the most angelic sentence possible) will inevitably be considered "harassment".

Perhaps a parser may actually be able to show them how far behind their performance actually is - so they can you know... work to improve and beat the content on their own regard?
Just food for thought.

> "Adding Parsers will just lead to people ONLY abusing them, and flat out kicking and blacklisting them for not performing!"
> "No it won't. Everyone won't do that."
> "OH, SO NOW YOU'RE USING ABSOLUTES HUH?"

Like, my goodness.

Also this game isn't inclusive. It requires several hundred hours investment, potentially several hundred dollars, and has some content locked behind stunningly large commitment walls. Inclusivity, scarcity, and feeling special is an INTRINSIC DRAW of the genre. It's basically the only 'unique' thing it offers, besides being 'massively multiplayer."

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

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It's pretty naive to believe that they won't budge on their current stance regarding parsers and add-on's. MMO's are in a constant state of evolution, the ones that can't keep up are left in the dust FFXIV isn't without exception to this. They are already doing system upgrades and updates to features that are common place in most mmo's in this day and age, add-on's and by extension parsers are a inevitability at this rate. You can stay in your little bubble and make claims that they won't ever budge on their stance and won't implement X feature, but displaying that mentality and stubborness is only proof of your naivety, It's against the very nature of MMO's and how they evolve. There is no such thing as "never" when it comes to MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Altena

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Originally Posted by Selova

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Perhaps you're right, and lack of an official parser don't make such behavior non-existant. However, HAVING an in-game parser will only make it more widespread and it'll quickly become the norm, just as it happened on WoW and pretty much every other game where parsing addons were 100% legan and not againsyt ToS. And then everybody who is not capable to perform above an arbitrary level of performance set by the community's zeitgeist will be shunned, left out and kicked from EVERY party - from daily roulettes to savage statics. EVERYBODY will be EXPECTED to min/max their characters to oblivion and back, regardless of how casual they are or if that level of performance being demanded from each and every player is actually needed to clear said content.

And no, I'm not being a doomsayer. I'm telling you exactly how things are now and were for years in World of Warcraft. in RIFT. In Wildstar. In pretty much every MMO that dared to add addon support.

People in general, and specially MMO players, are an egotistical, individualist bunch under a very big and heavy blanket of internet anonimity. They only care about their own needs, their own progression, their own items, that they crave for their own bragging rights. This very topic is living proof of that. So yeah, SE knows exactly the kind of leash this community needs to hold that behavior in check. And they will not offer to anyone an officially-endorsed way of practicing that. Your statement about how people are already judging and kicking people due to performance reasons even without addons is a very strong indication that they won't indeed ever implement an official parser that'll make the problem even worse.

You may think that parsers are an evolution of MMOs, when all they did was making the community more toxic and less casual-friendly. Which is the OPPOSITE direction they are going for with FFXIV since ARR's inception. The only way parsers will be implemented is if they pull a Star Wars Galaxies on us, which is something extremely unlikely. But by all means, you're free to cling on to your hope. We can talk again in a couple of years, and then a couple of years more.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

And no, I'm not being a doomsayer.

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You're right - doomsayers usually have some sort of prophetic book they use to support their doomsaying. You're just parroting yourself over and over and conveniently avoiding the things you can't answer. If you think FFXIV is this pristine social bubble that is only threatened by parsers, then you must be new to the internet.

Still waiting for that citation buddy, hopefully you'll post it by the time the sun rises.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Perhaps you're right, and lack of an official parser don't make such behavior non-existant. However, HAVING an in-game parser will only make it more widespread and it'll quickly become the norm, just as it happened on WoW and pretty much every other game where parsing addons were 100% legan and not againsyt ToS. And then everybody who is not capable to perform above an arbitrary level of performance set by the community's zeitgeist will be shunned, left out and kicked from EVERY party - from daily roulettes to savage statics. EVERYBODY will be EXPECTED to min/max their characters to oblivion and back, regardless of how casual they are or if that level of performance being demanded from each and every player is actually needed to clear said content.

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The people that want to act that way already do regardless of an official parser, just because you add a parser is not going to make the majority of players suddenly turn into jerks like you think.

I played WoW for years and its not nearly as bad as you make it out to be, there were a few more jerks but I think that had to do with the game having a more younger player base rather then parsers and in casual content is was very rare to see people calling out your dps most people dont care like ffxiv unless its extremely bad and in that case I don't mind it being called out as long as its healthy criticism.

I wouldn't mind if they would be at least be willing to test it out with a personal one and see what happens I don't think it will change the game very much.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

https://clips.twitch.tv/EmpathicBlazingLasagnaThunBeast

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Personal parser Also do you really think add on is just parser? It could be something else too you know? Or is it stuck in everyones head that ''add on = parser''? Instead of showing that clip everytime, what about listening to the question the guy says and many also said could be a thing in the game to improve themselves. A personal parser. Not like I fully agree with it, but a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

You may think that parsers are an evolution of MMOs when all they did was making the community more toxic and less casual-friendly. Which is the OPPOSITE direction they are going for with FFXIV since ARR's inception

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I think the current situation it's the total opposite of what you're saying: the parsers didn't make the community more toxic or less casual friendly, it's that FFXIV is already toxic and less casual friendly than people admit, thinking this is their safe haven of sweetness and sunshine UNTIL something threatens this lie.
Hell, I get bashed for disliking the main story, and God forbids you for having a different opinion about it! That's toxicity in my book and while it's a rather harmless bashing (I have enough jrpgs under my belt to know when I like a story or not), I'm fairly sure I don't get bashed for disliking stories in other games. See the problem?

This leads to another thing you mentioned in the same post

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

People in general, and especially MMO players, are an egotistical, individualist bunch under a very big and heavy blanket of internet anonimity

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Let me ask you this: why was vanilla wow - or any old school MMORPG for that matter - so loved despite being utterly unbalanced? The teamplay and the NEED to work together with other people: you had group quests, you had dungeon groups that actively looked for people in cities, some classes were more useful than others and so forth. It was a living world because people WORKED with each other, they PLAYED with others, and most importantly TALKED with one other.

Now look at FFXIV: everything is locked behind a SOLO main quest that you cannot - YOU CANNOT - tag with others (look at SWTOR if you start bragging lore BS). You can make up groups but it's 1000 times faster and easier (especially as a tank and healer) to use the duty finder: you even get bonus rewards if you solo queue. There are no group quests in the entire game: only group content in the world is fates, which don't even really incite teamplay and people group up only to reach gold medal easier. Same thing for hunts as you cannot get full credit alone (and yes tried doing one hunt alone, from 100% to 0%, it didn't give me full credit). Even dailies can't be done with others since they're randomized for each player. Free Companies have little meaning to group play as well because their buffs are very weak and easy to ignore and once again, everything can be done solo, even raids, and if you need to group with others you usually prefer a linkshell, because you can join 8 at once and never commit in any of them.

Only people who are at disadvantage are the DPS, which is the only one who requires people to play with and as I level one myself, it can be annoying to wait 30 minutes...but still better than go to a city, spam "LFG tank and healer" on a general chat, and then wait more than hour for said people and run over to the dungeon and enter manually. And yes I did that and it was a pain, but satisfying nonetheless and people talked more than they do now!

TL;DR: Parsers won't make the game more toxic, because the game has always been about solo improvement and egotistical people - hence, toxic - and there are very little incentives to do premade and socialize (i can probably do omega with pugs and once I learn the fights, I can join any with ease)
Add more incentives, more rewards and more bonuses for grouping up and people will stop aiming at each other's throat and parsers will stop being this evil spawn that everyone is afraid of.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Perhaps you're right, and lack of an official parser don't make such behavior non-existant. However, HAVING an in-game parser will only make it more widespread and it'll quickly become the norm, just as it happened on WoW and pretty much every other game where parsing addons were 100% legan and not againsyt ToS. And then everybody who is not capable to perform above an arbitrary level of performance set by the community's zeitgeist will be shunned, left out and kicked from EVERY party - from daily roulettes to savage statics. EVERYBODY will be EXPECTED to min/max their characters to oblivion and back, regardless of how casual they are or if that level of performance being demanded from each and every player is actually needed to clear said content.

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You seem to totally miss the mark.


It's not parsers that are the problem, it's the people behind the computer screens. Parser or not, toxic people will be toxic. This thread proves that, simply with one of the more toxic personalities in this thread actually being against parsers.
You are also acting like people aren't judged by their performance already. Again, parsers or not - if you're actively removed from the party it's likely due to the reason that you're either a toxic personality, or you're holding the group back from clearing the given content. Having a global parser available to everyone doesn't suddenly increase that, it simply enables players to understand their own performance in comparison to others and if need be - improve upon it.

You know what's the worst feeling? Being removed from a party and not knowing the reason. Again, people aren't allowed to tell you the reason because of their fear of that special snowflake being easily offended and fragile to criticism.

Again I will repeat myself, perhaps an in-game parser will allow players to actually understand the reason they were removed from the party and fix the problem themselves, to go on and join another party at a later time with an improved level of skill.

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People in general, and specially MMO players, are an egotistical, individualist bunch under a very big and heavy blanket of internet anonimity. They only care about their own needs, their own progression, their own items, that they crave for their own bragging rights. This very topic is living proof of that. So yeah, SE knows exactly the kind of leash this community needs to hold that behavior in check. And they will not offer to anyone an officially-endorsed way of practicing that. Your statement about how people are already judging and kicking people due to performance reasons even without addons is a very strong indication that they won't indeed ever implement an official parser that'll make the problem even worse.

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Honestly this game has the opposite problem most of the time. There is a very large portion of the community that believe they don't have to put in much effort, and that "pressing random buttons is good enough". How many farm parties for any content do you find yourself in, where there is either one or more who have not even stepped foot into a fight - expecting to be able to be carried over the finish line by people that have been clearing the fight for weeks/months? The whole "no bonus" attitude (which some see as toxic) comes from somewhere. Guess where that comes from? The very fact that there are so many entitled snowflakes in this community that expect to get a free ride off other people's backs because they can.

Guess what? If they are called out on it, they are able to report for harassment, and god forbid the other players have physical proof (in numbers). Because that's against ToS.

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You may think that parsers are an evolution of MMOs, when all they did was making the community more toxic and less casual-friendly. Which is the OPPOSITE direction they are going for with FFXIV since ARR's inception. The only way parsers will be implemented is if they pull a Star Wars Galaxies on us, which is something extremely unlikely. But by all means, you're free to cling on to your hope. We can talk again in a couple of years, and then a couple of years more.

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I am a casual. A fully blown casual.
I grind tomes every week, I perhaps PF a couple of raids, craft and maybe level a couple of jobs if I am bored.
Parsers are perfectly "friendly" to me. You know why? Because I look at my performance, I think "hmm I didn't do so well there.. What can I do to improve?" and I work on fixing that problem.
As a casual, I take pride in knowing that I can perform to a reasonable level and not hold anyone back. Without parsers and websites that help analyze those logs, I would have no clue where I stand.

I mean you do realise, that if someone really wanted to - they could pull out their log files or read their entire chat log for a fight, grab all their numbers and mash them into a calculator to work out their DPS?
Parsers simply automate that process.

Yes parsers are an evolution. Without them, people have almost no clue where they stand.

I am sorry to say but people will continue to use parsers, whether they are in-game or third party.
The difference is that it's excluding PS4 players from the ability to use such tools to improve their performance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

What are you talking about? Yoshi-P already stated multiple times that he will never allow for addons in FFXIV

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What are you talking about? Add-ons were actually planned for ARR, then simply "postponed".

From PAX 2015 interview (source):

Quote:

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Reddit: Here’s a question that’s asked a lot. What’s the current state of the API for addons?
Yoshida: We’re still in development. It will still take more time. We’re thinking maybe after the launch of Heavensward we may be able to give you a visual reference or a screen layout of some sort. Of course having to have patch updates go on at the pace we’re going at any additional side projects that we work on tend to take a bit more time. But of course we’re inching slowly closer to making it happen and we’re continuing to work on it.

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Also, this is what Yoshi P has said about unofficial parsers: https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=6m4s. Basically, they cannot officially endorse them, because they're 3rd party tools, but he understands the PC players want to "enjoy the gameplay to the best of their gaming environment". He talks about banning people using tools that give unfair advantage, such as bots and hacks, but sees parsers as a completely different thing. He says you'll simply have to be discreet about using a parser.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taika

Also, this is what Yoshi P has said about unofficial parsers: https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=6m4s. Basically, they cannot officially endorse them, because they're 3rd party tools, but he understands the PC players want to "enjoy the gameplay to the best of their gaming environment". He talks about banning people using tools that give unfair advantage, such as bots and hacks, but sees parsers as a completely different thing. He says you'll simply have to be discreet about using a parser.

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I'm going to take to google translate to see how Alexion will see that - it goes from from Japanese to English to Sanskrit to ancient Babylon to Australian slang to Mandarin and then back to English.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

SEE! Yoshi P CLEARLY hates the very idea of parsers, and even calls those that use them "The devil's seed"! CRIKEY!!!

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Well damn, better start thinking of a response now...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DRHaymaker

I'm going to take to google translate to see how Alexion will see that - it goes from from Japanese to English to Sanskrit to ancient Babylon to Australian slang to Mandarin and then back to English.



Well damn, better start thinking of a response now...

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Heyyyy.. Nothing wrong with Aussie slang. We make perfect sense mate!

The fact you've mentioned a super mario games machine and mmo immediately invalidates your request.

If you where serious about mmo's you would go out and buy a pc - thread closed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

If you where serious about mmo's you would go out and buy a pc - thread closed.

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I disagree with this. I'm a pretty serious player, and for the first year of my FFXIV experience, I had no choice but to play on a console. People can be serious about this game and not play on PC. Let's not turn this into a PC > PS4 war thread because that's not the point of this thread at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

The fact you've mentioned a super mario games machine and mmo immediately invalidates your request.

If you where serious about mmo's you would go out and buy a pc - thread closed.

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This has to be the most retarded thing ever and I bet 10 bucks I will find far more better ps4 players than you are on pc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

This has to be the most retarded thing ever and I bet 10 bucks I will find far more better ps4 players than you are on pc.

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humour bypass alert

Uggggg y'all are dragging my post through the mud. Y U DO DIS?
I'm just asking for a tool to quickly figure out where and who the issues are. We already have a halfassed tool for that as it is--- enmity.
Literally. an in-game tool is all i'm asking for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baka_Neko1

Uggggg y'all are dragging my post through the mud. Y U DO DIS?
I'm just asking for a tool to quickly figure out where and who the issues are. We already have a halfassed tool for that as it is--- enmity.
Literally. an in-game tool is all i'm asking for.

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Any parser discussion is going to be like this: two sides attempting to convince each other in utter futility the merits of their point. Every parser topic in Gen Discussion is like this, whether an OP's intentions are pure or not.

I know, but eesh. I went through and read them all. So many personal attacks. Like can't well just smoke a blunt and get along? Having an ingame personal parser than you can consent to sharing and having as a group parser would just be way too nice, but i'm starting to see there's a reason we can't have nice things. Granted I'd still like a parser for ps4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

So I was just in a few susanos and had a blast because even if some wasn't as high as the others we killed it around 6 min and 30 seconds to 7 min, which is faster, about 2-3 min faster than an average group in susano extreme. So this chat also have a innocent player asking if someone use a parser and look at the way they ask. Is this seriously something that only concerns me? Because he only asked to know how he perform because he can't due to ps4 and then someone on the ps4 actually replied saying their dps since someone else said it for them. There are plenty of players like this who wonders and this also makes me frustrated that
SenorPatty Would report, even if the player who said the numbers are on ps4.

https://i.imgur.com/OJ2upUb.png
Players like this win a thumb up from me, asking how their performence is really nice since some people want to improve. What made me sad is that he was afraid to ask if someone actually used a parser, just because some trigger happy report people exist these days. So yeah a parser in game would be great for ps4 players and for those who are afraid getting banned using act on pc.

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While i agree with what you wrote about players like your expample, i will still not answer questions like this because someone special or even that person could report you for using a parser.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilan

While i agree with what you wrote about players like your expample, i will still not answer questions like this because someone special or even that person could report you for using a parser.

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Which is fine and I understand you completely there. There was a guy who won the susano mount once and he said FUCK YES! And got 24 hours ban, because someone reported him for being over exicted. There is also a filter in game but whoever that was decided to be a ass about it. There are plenty of things people just report others for and there are far too many trigger toxic players these days. The irony they want to put an example not being toxic but yet their behavior is one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Which is fine and I understand you completely there. There was a guy who won the susano mount once and he said FUCK YES! And got 24 hours ban, because someone reported him for being over exicted. There is also a filter in game but whoever that was decided to be a ass about it. There are plenty of things people just report others for and there are far too many trigger toxic players these days. The irony they want to put an example not being toxic but yet their behavior is one.

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Oh yes one of my old static members hat a little argument with someone in a dungeon and they both were a bit offending but our guy didn't report the other one but the guy reported him and he got 24 Hours vacation. I don't understand people who report every fart and i understand SE even less for bans like this.