Tank Scaling still a massive issue

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Originally Posted by Falar

Instead of arbitrary values though I don't know why they just didn't go with 50% of the VIT.

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It can't be an arbitrary assignment. If it was, calling for 50% of vit is equally as arbitrary.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Do we know that? I suspect as much, but it's still cause for concern, in my opinion. Let's not forget that Fending accessories for the longest time had no Attack Power. It's not like this is a new issue; rather, we've regressed. Incidentally, how do you feel about the idea of i320 crafted accessories being superior to i340 raid accessories?

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They haven't explicitly confirmed it, no. But it's about as unofficially confirmed as possible. They did state they were adding a "minimal" amount of str, and the theorycrafters have confirmed they are pretty much equal to the 270s including substat weights, so, we pretty much know :)

In general I do think it's good for crafters to have a place in the end game raiding scene. As for crafted vs raid drops, they are only slightly better since you can overmeld. If people want to assume that cost for the relatively minor impact of secondaries, more power to them. It certainly doesn't seem as bad as HW where tanks were spending millions on crafted slaying, at least it's crafted fending this time lol. All in all, it doesn't look like they will be necessary to clear this raid tier, so as long as nobody is forced into buying them it's just personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

Because being an inferior dps is such a great playstyle. Everyone is just fine! Nothing at all should change, we should keep everything exactly how it is. All we just need to fix everything is more str! /s

My gripe is that we can't seem to get past this idea that tanks should have the damage of a dps.

There's a reason why Tanks have always been the most least played class in this game, no matter what SE does to get people to play tanks. They can throw all the extra tomes, gil, prizes, mounts, etc, that they want as incentives for people to play tanks, but it wont matter. As it is currently tanking in this game is fundamentally bad. All tanking is, is playing a gimped dps that holds aggro. No matter what you see yourself as, thats all you are.

There are ways to make a tank fun and engaging, but SE has taken the easy way out when it comes to tanking in this game. Just give tanks some dps skills, a few mitigation CD's, then call it a day. The worst thing about it though, is that the community seems to be ok with that. There are some good discussion about tank mechanics, but for every one good discussion there are three more that boil down to "muh dps" and think every problem can be fixed by just adding more str. Although as it turns out, if you base the Tank class playstyle around dealing damage, it'll attract players who enjoy dealing damage. Only problem with that is, the DPS role already exists, so tanks will ALWAYS be underplayed.

Just look through the "why do you tank" thread from a while back. Majority of the responses are either "I like low queue times", "I like 2H weapons", or "no one else in my static wanted to tank". And I assure you, there are people out there that like to be a "meatwall" and enjoy the tank playstyle of holding aggro, mitigating damage, etc. But what we have right now is a forum of players who want to dps that are forced to play tanks. Which is mostly SE's fault but eh.

Maybe one day if SE decides to add some better tank mechanics, people would actually play tanks more. But I doubt that will happen at least until 5.0 because people like you halt any kind of evolution we could have in tank mechanics beyond "does x do more damage than y" and until we can move beyond that will will never be more than a gimped dps role. But if you're ok with that then by all means.

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Yep. As I've stated here, there's a lot of ways they could make tanking more fun. Well, I think rather, that the reason SE would not change the system is because of the super casual players who have trouble with passive mitigation and more complicated rotations, and because of the development costs in doing so. I don't think there's anything wrong with tanks doing 70-80% DPS of a real DPS, but I also think that shouldn't be their sole source of fun and engagement.

O3S? would be impossible if we didnt recieve str bonus on our gear healers wpuld then be required to do 1k each this fight has a steep dps check.

Pretty sure they have rebalanced the encounter enrage timer and boss hp to take into account the 300+ str tanks gain compared to pre 4.05. You can surely do o3s with tanks doing 20% less dps than now, my group cleared o3s with 9 deaths and 10s-ish time until enrage, but I doubt my group could've gotten past exdeath with 20% less tank dps, and that's with 2-2.5k combined healer dps. The dps requirement in the first part of o4s is much tighter than o3s.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Not necessarily. It's easy to make the gap between tank and DPS higher and higher while still being under the top enmity we can generate.
Between all the enmity bonuses, it's easy for tanks to generate at least three times the enmity of their damage. So, if we have 2k AP and the DPS have 5k, they'll indeed have 3k more than us, but, we'll still generate enmity "as if" we had 6k AP.

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...and so tanks have to tank and DPS might have to start using their skill set to manage their aggro to prevent peeling things from the tank.

Alternately SE could apply an enmity modifier to DPS jobs to reduce enmity generated as STR or attack power scales upwards.