Samurai Discussion

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Originally Posted by KennyRedsteele

And Dervy's Opener is pinned in the Discord Channel
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...48/unknown.png

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I am a bit noob with this charts but, is he doing kasha > gekko > yukikaze without the combo bonus? It will do 100dmg each attack? He does this 3 attack just to get the Ka, Setsu and Getsu even if he does only 100 for each attack?

No you arent blind he got a misstake there between Hagakure and Kasha has to be Meikyo Shisui he mentioned it later

My Fault

Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hagakure > Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko > Iaijutsu > Hissatsu: Guren > Meikyo Shisui > Kasha > Gekko > Yukikaze > Hissatsu: Kaiten > Iaijutsu > Hakaze > Hissatsu: Shinten

Thats the opener but I think with WAR support

Just try to post some Opener they used to talk about for ppl who got no Discord or got issues to join
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1374548981


But as I said for me it would be more important if we got a priority system because this 3mins rotations arent that usefull in my opinion ^^

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Originally Posted by KennyRedsteele

No you arent blind he got a misstake there between Hagakure and Kasha has to be Meikyo Shisui he mentioned it later

My Fault

Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hagakure > Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko > Iaijutsu > Hissatsu: Guren > Meikyo Shisui > Kasha > Gekko > Yukikaze > Hissatsu: Kaiten > Iaijutsu > Hakaze > Hissatsu: Shinten

Thats the opener but I think with WAR support

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Yeah, this opener is with WAR support. Some put another one in the Discord including Yukikaze on the start (-10% slashing).

https://i.imgur.com/F6KXgPLr.png

See a lot of people doing Higan after 3rd GCD, but I think its worth waiting till after 4th or 5th. There will be more raid buffs up at that point. I plan on starting like:

Hakaze>Jinpu>Gekko>Hakaze>Shifu>Higan>Kasha

Edit, I keep mixing up these samurai move names.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

Yeah, this opener is with WAR support. Some put another one in the Discord including Yukikaze on the start (-10% slashing).

https://i.imgur.com/F6KXgPLr.png

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This rotation can't be done as Meikyou Shisui doesn't allow you to continue combos after it ends. We found out for sure 100% after a couple of videos were linked in discord.

So Meikyou > yuki > gekko > jinpu > gekko can't work

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

See a lot of people doing Higan after 3rd GCD, but I think its worth waiting till after 4th or 5th. There will be more raid buffs up at that point. I plan on starting like:

Hakaze>Jinpu>Gekko>Hakaze>Shifu>Higan>Kasha

Edit, I keep mixing up these samurai move names.

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Dervy's rotation has it coming even later than that to catch more buffs.

One question:

1. Starry Eyes has 200 potency -> 25 kenki + waste open eyes
2. Hissatsu Shinten has 300 potency -> 25 kenki.

Same CD on both.

So, should i remove from my hotbar Starry Eyes? ^^; It doesnt make any sense Starry Eyes.

As stated multiple times, english tooltip is wrong. Japanese tooltip from a more recent build puts Starry Eyes at 15 kenki.

Hey guys, Ive been away since the end of ARR. Is Sam and red going to be stand alone jobs requiring a fresh roll to start one or will we be able to lateral over on our mains?

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

As stated multiple times, english tooltip is wrong. Japanese tooltip from a more recent build puts Starry Eyes at 15 kenki.

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That makes more sense :P Thx

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Originally Posted by Rigus

Hey guys, Ive been away since the end of ARR. Is Sam and red going to be stand alone jobs requiring a fresh roll to start one or will we be able to lateral over on our mains?

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all jobs and classes in ffxiv can be played on the same character. but you must have completed ARR i believe to pick up the quests for rdm/sam, similar to how you have to have access to ishgard to access mch/drk/ast

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Originally Posted by Rigus

Hey guys, Ive been away since the end of ARR. Is Sam and red going to be stand alone jobs requiring a fresh roll to start one or will we be able to lateral over on our mains?

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They're available to any character that has at least one job at level 50 and has completed the Praetorium quest from ARR MSQ.

Gotcha thanks guys, I know it was a dumb question but I completely missed the last xpac. So I wasn't sure how much things have changed. Appreciate the quick answers.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...18/unknown.png Dervy's latest I think

15.62 and 19.94. 2 Kashas that close together with no Iaijutsu or Hagakure in between?

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

15.62 and 19.94. 2 Kashas that close together with no Iaijutsu or Hagakure in between?

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He does Kasha>Yukikaze>Kasha to get 3 sen into Hissatsu: Kaiten > Midare Setsugekka. He already uses Hagakure after his 3rd gcd.

Edit: Actually, I think the second kasha should be a gekko to actually get the 3rd sen for a midare.

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Originally Posted by DGladius

He does Kasha>Yukikaze>Kasha to get 3 sen into Hissatsu: Kaiten > Midare Setsugekka. He already uses Hagakure after his 3rd gcd.

Edit: Actually, I think the second kasha should be a gekko to actually get the 3rd sen for a midare.

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Yeah I figure it has to be a typo.

A Doc that was shared on the discord:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.45bd2wt9qqqa

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...pscqdnoerb.jpg

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Thanks as always PROBOUND,although I believe you made a mistake after you use Meikyo Shisui Kasha is used twice,one of them will have to be Gekko.

It's important to note this opener relies on having a War/Nin put the slashing debuff early

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Originally Posted by Daioh

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It's important to note this opener relies on having a War/Nin put the slashing debuff early

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Updated thanks:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...psqwvaclry.jpg

So what would without WAR and NIN be?

Admittedly I haven't had a chance to play around with SAM rotations more, but whats the rationale for using haga with only 1 sen? That seems like a waste of its utility, no?

so far I believe the info is suggesting early yukikaze opener is almost never worth it even without tanks who can apply slashing, since the difference in AP for the tanks/sam is so high and in those situations the tanks will be using a lot of early non-aspected damage in their rotation such as holy strike and salted earth (c/o dervy)

Just got interested in SAM, so I've been trying to learn their abilities names, costs, etc.

Is there really nothing to spend Kenki on until Lv52 when you unlock Kaiten? I mean, it's only 2 levels, but that pretty much means your Kenki is useless in any of the ARR dungeons/trials. that cap at/below 50.

Does that not feel kind of odd? Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way, or I'm missing information. It just feels odd to have half of the core mechanics gated behind being such a high level.

40 skill opener? That's almost 2 minutes! At one point that "opener" is just a regular rotation.

perhaps, but when a lot of your "rotation" revolves around properly using hagakure on 40 second cd and a 1 minute dot being aligned properly, there is a best practice.

I usually define openers as being your initial wind up, and the burst that follows. That would place the end of the opener at the first Midare Setsugekka, about 35 - 40 seconds into the fight depending on your skillspeed. At this point you've got all 3 buffs up (Yukikaze, Jinpu and Shifu), used your potion, put up Higanbana, used Meikyo Shisui, Guren and Hagakure and you finish off with several Shintens and a Kaiten buffed Midare Setsugekka.

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Originally Posted by Chrallmal

Just got interested in SAM, so I've been trying to learn their abilities names, costs, etc.

Is there really nothing to spend Kenki on until Lv52 when you unlock Kaiten? I mean, it's only 2 levels, but that pretty much means your Kenki is useless in any of the ARR dungeons/trials. that cap at/below 50.

Does that not feel kind of odd? Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way, or I'm missing information. It just feels odd to have half of the core mechanics gated behind being such a high level.

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Seems akin to how DRG gets Blood of the Dragon at 52, adding another mechanic to the rotation to manage. /shrug Like Kenki won't come into play until then.

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Originally Posted by Chrallmal

Is there really nothing to spend Kenki on until Lv52 when you unlock Kaiten?

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It seems like not all GCDs will give kenki at that level really, maybe only the finishers.
Other than that, at least you get Yaten and Gyoten, which can be doubleweaved... (not very productive but seems fun)

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Originally Posted by Chrallmal

Is there really nothing to spend Kenki on until Lv52 when you unlock Kaiten? I mean, it's only 2 levels, but that pretty much means your Kenki is useless in any of the ARR dungeons/trials. that cap at/below 50.

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The other thing is that from levels 30-39 you only have access to 1 sen (so you can only ever spend it on Higanbana), and between 40-49 you only have 2.

my personal feedback on the abilities mainly comes down to this:

The "Starry Eyes" ability that is used after Proccing a hit taken while having "Third Eye" up...should have an additional effect: halves Enmity

For the cost of the ability "25 Kenki" it does 100 less potency than Hissatsu: Shinten...so it makes NO SENSE to even have that ability there as it is now...4.0 is meant to remove pointless abilities yet here is this (And yes I know this is not final patch notes...but its worth pointing it out incase they DO leave it as is)

The 1/2 enmity will be extremely useful when tanks lose aggro (which happens ALOT to me now when I play monk....many tanks STILL don't know how to pump that enmity! ; ; )

Given how powerful SAM's hits are meant to be...I wouldn't be surprised if they will be taking aggro alot..and so the Additional Effect will go a looooong way for this class AND makes this ability a good one to utilize in roulletes and whatnot.

Giving it an effect like generates kenki or one of the Sens will drive healers insane and be too dangerous..so this is the best solution since Diversion has a 2 min CD and might not be ready for each trash pack in dungeons and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Owl_Hawk

For the cost of the ability "25 Kenki" it does 100 less potency than Hissatsu: Shinten...

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I believe it will cost 15 Kenki. It was updated somewhere, but correct me if I'm mistaken. I do agree that SAM looks like it will need all the help we can get to minimize aggro.

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Originally Posted by Tinkerblue

I believe it will cost 15 Kenki. It was updated somewhere, but correct me if I'm mistaken. I do agree that SAM looks like it will need all the help we can get to minimize aggro.

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perhaps they did correct it somewhere..I am not up to date with some of the corrections...but if it is indeed 15 kenki for 200pot then it will be worth getting hit to use Starry Eyes to max DPS which means healers are going to have a fit :s since 300pot for Shinten costs 25kenki = 300/25 = 12 pot per kenki...and 200 pot for 15 200/15= 13.3333....it seems little the +1.33...but thats a bit more than +10% dmg...if it is 15 kenki, then they should keep it to 15 and reduce its potency to be less than the 12 pot per kenki but add the -1/2 or even 1/4 enmity or risk SAMs getting hit just whether because they got aggro or on purpose to max dmg...which will cause healers and tanks to possibly just leave group when they see us ; ;

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Originally Posted by Owl_Hawk

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As a healer main, I hope no one purposely gets hit for such a reason. As a possible SAM main, I think it's good to pop 3rd eye for unavoidable damage where heals would be given to party anyway (no wasted healer time).

I am curious if SAM may get that Nerf Hammer due to how strong it is.

it has a lot of high potency skills than any melee DPS in the game currently with no Position requirments.

Just look at these skills!

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Samurai

Basic 123 combo starts with 150 potency damage on Hakaze, 1 skill, jump to a 280 potency damage on Jinpu/shufu then a 400 potency on Gekko/kasha, the 3 skill.

The slash debuff combo is 150 potency from Hakaze then to Yukikaze with a 340 potency damage pluse the 10% slash debuff.

then there is the 720 potency on the 3 Sen skill

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I am curious if SAM may get that Nerf Hammer due to how strong it is.

it has a lot of high potency skills than any melee DPS in the game currently with no Position requirments.

Just look at these skills!

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Samurai

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1. It does have positionals. Just because they don't affect potency directly doesn't mean missing their positionals don't hurt. The loss of Kenki on missing positionals means less Hissatsu skills, and less DPS.

2. It remains to be seen just how far the gap will be from other DPS, but it needs to be high to offset its complete lack of group utility. Otherwise we fall into another Heavensward Monk scenario where their damage wasn't enough to make up for how good Dragoon and Ninja's party contributions were.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

1. It does have positionals. Just because they don't affect potency directly doesn't mean missing their positionals don't hurt. The loss of Kenki on missing positionals means less Hissatsu skills, and less DPS.

2. It remains to be seen just how far the gap will be from other DPS, but it needs to be high to offset its complete lack of group utility. Otherwise we fall into another Heavensward Monk scenario where their damage wasn't enough to make up for how good Dragoon and Ninja's party contributions were.

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1) If you look at each skill the skills will increase Kenki no matter what and there is no mention of positionals required to increase the Kenki.

The positional requirement most likely got removed sometime between they mentioned it to current testing.

The increase to Kenki is now a passive skill Samurai obtain in 52 and 62


2) High potency is nice and all but when the potency is bigger than all other melee DPS in the game there may be some issues later with balancing the Job when they finally introduce a Party Utility skill unless they fully intend SAM to be the selfish DPS Job and focus on itself for the rest of the game as it get older.

We also have to consider how big the difference having larger potency skills than other melee DPS Jobs can be as their Utility can only last for a short time compared to long term effects of always having higher damage than other melee DPS jobs that Samurai has.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

1) If you look at each skill... has.

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If Sam can't bring significantly higher dps to compete with the raid utility the other jobs bring, there would be no point to ever bring a sam.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

1) If you look at each skill the skills will increase Kenki no matter what and there is no mention of positionals required to increase the Kenki.

The positional requirement most likely got removed sometime between they mentioned it to current testing.

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Positionals requirement are still there (Gekko : Rear/Kaska : Flank). English Tooltips are just not accurate yet.

Famitsu ITW :

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＜2017年6月9日追記＞コンボをつなげて閃を付与するという仕組みは上記で説明してある通りだが、コンボの3段目となるWS“月光”や“花車”に方向指定がある点に注目してほしい。威力は変わらないものの、指定の方向からWSをくり出すことで追加で剣気が上昇するので、ダメージ効率を突きつめたいなら、かなり重要になると思われる。方向指定が成功するかどうかで剣気の運用も変わってくると思うので、侍をプレイする際には注意すべきポイントになるだろう。

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Yoshida & Samurai on Famitsu ITW :

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When looking at the new samurai job, I got the impression that there are a lot of things that you need to manage to play it to its fullest - is that the intent?

Yoshida: Yeah. It's meant to be an extremely strong job. I mentioned it on the producer letter live, it's a difficult job, but it has great potential.

Although the mechanisms are easily understood on the surface, when you start thinking about how to use them most efficiently, it is really deep.

Yoshida: Where do you consume Keniki to use Hissatsu, and what kind of Hissatsu do you use... I think there will be differing takes on things like that.

It also had a good set of AoE attacks. It should fit right in to instanced dungeon play. Was that also a goal with the samurai job design?

Yoshida: We've added a number of jobs now, and especially with players going to instanced dungeons as part of their daily routine, it's definitely something we think about when we add a new job.

Certainly that makes sense.

Yoshida: The first reason is that since it's a new job that a lot of players will want to use in instanced dungeons, it would be better to have more AoE attacks. However, more importantly, the samurai is designed in such a way that they will always need to be conscious of Keniki and Sen. We were conscious to make it so that players aren't just repeatedly hitting a powerful AoE attack, but going through more of an AoE attack rotation. In order to properly use the AoE attack rotation, you'll have to think about the resources you accumulate using AoE attacks alone, and consider what kinds of attacks to use so that you're not wasting resources.

We'll talk more later, but there certain areas where we've looked back at the new jobs we implemented in Heavensward and made decisions to make the new jobs somewhat stronger this time because it took a while for the new jobs to truly shine with Heavensward. It might be necessary to remind people that samurai need to remain conscious of their rotation as opposed to focusing just on strong hits in instanced dungeons. It will be tough to keep that standing in end-game content, but it's intended to be a highly challenging job.

It should be fun to think about what the most efficient attacks will be for each content.

Yoshida: I think it's good to have jobs included for pro players. It's a type of melee job that gets better and more capable the more you play it and get used to it - it's packed with potential. The only simple part of it is moving around (laughs).

It definitely felt like there was room for players to develop their skills on samurai

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

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