Viera Should Of Happened

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Originally Posted by Nestama

If Elementals had been hiding the Viera, then we would have seen their village the moment ARR launched. The Calamity severely weakened them (Greenwrath/Woodsin is pretty much no longer a thing to fear).

Anyway, why copy and paste their lore from a completely different world (that's pretty lazy. Lazier than what they'll be remade into)? Why not give them new lore? Especially since they're not going to look as unique as their Ivalice counterparts if they're made playable in this game. Rabbit ears and something similar to an Elezen body is what you're getting. New faces are a given.

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It's no secret many aspects of previous FF titles have been and will be brought over to FFXIV (Crystal Tower, Magitech Reapers, Primals, Jobs, races, ect...). Veira have been wanted since as early as FFXI to be a playable race in then Vana'diel, and now even more so in FFXIV. That being said, my post was simply made to illustrate that they could and be introduced in a similar fashion as an example, after all we still don't have access to all of Coerthas, or the Black Shroud (the areas more highly damaged in the calamity). As far as copying the lore being "lazy", it's still a fairly interesting concept in fantasy. While there is a need for originality lets not be in a rush to discount what came previous, while we will not be getting Viera this round there is no denying there is a demand there.

Early as FF11? Geez, the only Veria that existed back then was in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and that was a GBA game. 3D versions of Veira didn't exist until FF12.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

It was the most polled, there are hundreds of threads on it

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I've never been convinced that gross exaggerations help promote an argument in one's favour, I doubt there were even 10 threads and many of those no doubt were full of many of the same posters.

I see no need for a new race at all, but if there is then we need something DIFFERENT from what we already have, and your proposed race is little different from what we already have, as others have described.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

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And everything from previous Final Fantasy games that are not cross-over events have been rewritten. The entire Crystal Tower story is not the same as FFIII's (the lore is completely different). As Miles said, Viera weren't a thing until FFTA came out and their 2D design is (arguably) more bestial in appearance than their appearance in FFXII (where they're very human in appearance). The lore for Viera is pretty much comparable to elves, too. If they have completely new lore and their appearance is more towards their FFTA design, then I would be somewhat okay with them being in XIV.

I'd still dislike them more than the Au Ra, though.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

It was the most polled

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No thanks, most polled back then before other people got involved into final fantasy.

If a new poll was introduced I bet the outcome would be much different, not everyone was on forums during that poll.

I would much rather see something totally different.

examples

Flying yourself instead of mounts for this class you give different wings.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...enIIClaude.png

Maybe a half esper human race that can Morph, start off as human once you unlock advanced it give you a morph command for job skills.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/09cb301f1...g9leo1_500.jpg

I wouldn't want the bunny.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

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I don't think SE would make a race that has it's own mechanics, it would be unfair to the those who don't want to play that race.
The races we have now are purely cosmetic-driven, with their stats not weighing nothing in game-play.

Adding new race means you just hurting more Roegadyn's population :(

I'm not sure if this had been mentioned yet, but Viera are strictly an Ivalice-only race. Last I checked Erozea is not Ivalice.

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Originally Posted by Eul

Adding new race means you just hurting more Roegadyn's population :(

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I'm in a couple all Roe LS's and coming from personal experience of chattin' with a lot of Roes, we enjoy our small population. If there was actually a reason to have Viera, that'd be it :P

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

No thanks, most polled back then before other people got involved into final fantasy.

If a new poll was introduced I bet the outcome would be much different, not everyone was on forums during that poll.

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Actually, the OP made a separate thread (that has thankfully died) with a poll to prove his point, and I totally called the outcome; His point is a half-truth, and many more people would rather see improved character customizations. Now please, let's let this thread die like the others.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm not sure if this had been mentioned yet, but Viera are strictly an Ivalice-only race. Last I checked Erozea is not Ivalice.

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While it's sort of tradition for each Final Fantasy game to re-use character, region, monster names etc.. each Final Fantasy game (to the exception of those being sequels) are different universes. So it does not matter what and where Viera were in Final Fantasy <insert number>, because Final Fantasy XIV is its own universe that could have or not a "viera-like race" by its own lore.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

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Well, kind of. Not entirely though.

For example, FFXIII and FF Type-0 are both part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project which means they are based around a common mythos. The worlds may change but things like l'Cie are kept within only that mythos.

And, actually, the Ivalice Alliance (which many games that take place in Ivalice are part of) games all take place within the same world of Ivalice. Viera have only ever been in Ivalice, regardless of how many games they have been in. And Ivalice in each game is the same world. They could introduce a "Viera-like race", but it wouldn't be Viera. It would be something completely different.

If we want to get technical, not all the games that take place in Ivalice were/are part of the Ivalice Alliance, but they still take place in Ivalice and share common elements with the other Ivalice based games.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm not sure if this had been mentioned yet, but Viera are strictly an Ivalice-only race. Last I checked Erozea is not Ivalice.

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Last time I checked Elvaan, Mithra, Tarutaru, and Galka were from Vana'diel but they seemed to creep into a second game just fine. >w>

XI races =/= XIV races (especially the Roegadyn... I'd love to play as a Galka in this game, though. They were adorable).
If Viera are brought to this game, they'll be given a completely different name, be given completely different lore and be given the exact same treatment the "XI" races were given (anything unique and bestial about them will be replaced with normal human parts, save for one or two things that don't require a lot of work to "redo" gear for).

I just hope if they add a Viera-like race someday, that it won't be Elezen with bunny ears :p

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Last time I checked Elvaan, Mithra, Tarutaru, and Galka were from Vana'diel but they seemed to creep into a second game just fine. >w>

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Are you saying Elezen, Miqo'te, Lala, and Roe are the same thing? Because... they are similar, yes, but they are not the same thing. Everyone is asking for Viera, but we would not get Viera. We would get something similar to how FFXIV has similar races to FFIX but they are entirely different.

Lalas and Tarus are completely different, for example, yet you claim they are the same?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Last time I checked Elvaan, Mithra, Tarutaru, and Galka were from Vana'diel but they seemed to creep into a second game just fine. >w>

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Which?

Last I checked all those races are FFXI only.

And being Viera-like is not the same as being Viera.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I don't think SE would make a race that has it's own mechanics, it would be unfair to the those who don't want to play that race.
The races we have now are purely cosmetic-driven, with their stats not weighing nothing in game-play.

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thats the problem with MMO's it needs more changes, nobody wants to try different things always has to be the same thing over and over, I wonder when some of the guys take a chance and actually get gutsy and put something out that will change the face of MMO's for good.

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Originally Posted by Bloody

Actually, the OP made a separate thread (that has thankfully died) with a poll to prove his point, and I totally called the outcome; His point is a half-truth, and many more people would rather see improved character customizations. Now please, let's let this thread die like the others.

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It wont die because others will see it and post with the same remarks I had, nobody gonna want a that race from FF12, I thought it was cool for that game but I didn't like the legs face or ears.

Also I would like customization but races as well, if none of this stuff comes might as well lower the price of that fantasia potion.

Because then its pretty much useless item that is sold for just the same races over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

thats the problem with MMO's it needs more changes, nobody wants to try different things always has to be the same thing over and over, I wonder when some of the guys take a chance and actually get gutsy and put something out that will change the face of MMO's for good.

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Depends what you mean by try different things. There are a ton of different kinds of MMOs; some caught on and some bit the dust. As it is, investors seemingly don't want to really invest into the MMO genre because it's a huge risk. Add that with trying something new and you'll probably find even less willing investors.

What annoys me about this whole thing is that it's about someone's twisted narrative, and a bad one at that. This only came about when that poll was posted asking what type of race the player base wanted. The winning category was mammalian with animal/beast like characteristics with an example being given of the viera. And someone took that as evidence of getting Viera. >.>

/points at Au'ra

There's your mammalian race with beast like characteristics. Horns and scales and tails, oh my.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

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Okay, so we going to act like the XIV races (minus AuRa) aren't glaring similar to XI's races...
They're just so radically different.
Tarutaru's are a small, cute race that is slightly geared more towards magic, while Lala are a small, cute race that is slightly geared more towards magic with more proportionate heads.
Mithra's are cat people, Miqo'te are cat people but with less catty-bits.
Galka are a big, strongman-race with tails, Roe are a big, strongman-race without tails. (Granted, I'll give you Galka's asexual reproduction)
I can't even make a sarcastic quip about Elezen and Elvaan, they're copy-paste.
If you guys don't want Viera/a Viera-like race that's fine but don't act like we can't have them because XIV and the rest of the FF series doesn't double-dip with concepts and ideas, especially in a game that is such a fan-service-themepark as this. >x>

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

/points at Au'ra

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AuRa goes under the Reptilian Demi-Beastmen, their description on the poll even says "ex. a race with demonic features such as horns, etc.".
Link to poll
What's actually fun is that for JP, the option that got the most votes was "Races with Mixed Heritage" (granted by around only 2%), everywhere else (NA, UK, France, and Germany) had "Mammalian demi-beastmen" as its highest voted, an almost 4% difference with their second highest, Races with Mixed Heritage (except Germany, the difference there was about 10%).

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

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I think they were more talking about lore-wise. Roegadyn are not directly Galka, Miqo'te are not directly Mithra, etc.

Design-wise, they can do all the resemblances they want, but lore-wise, they're entirely different races. Which is why if a Viera-like race were introduced, it would not be exactly Viera.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I think they were more talking about lore-wise. Roegadyn are not directly Galka, Miqo'te are not directly Mithra, etc.

Design-wise, they can do all the resemblances they want, but lore-wise, they're entirely different races. Which is why if a Viera-like race were introduced, it would not be exactly Viera.

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Most people who want Viera/A Viera-like Race want it because of how they/Fran looked, so I'm not seeing the problem. :-B

I kinda wish Tanaka's team went with a more original approach when they made the XIV races, rather than copy and edit three races from XI. I say three, because Hume/Hyur and Elvaan/Elezen = Humans and Elves (the latter of which pretty much appears in most fantasy genres).

My argument against the addition of Viera can have the Au Ra thanked for that. I kinda expected Au Ra to be more interesting in their appearance, but instead they just slapped horns and tails onto them and made sure the females were cute/waifish by default. Going a Viera route, to me, is lazy. The design was made back in 2003, all they have to do is remove the bits that look different and put human parts in their place. Rabbit ears, new faces and a "redone" Elezen body is all it's gonna be. Honestly, what would actually be different for this game, at this point, is a (Dragon Age/Middle-Earth styled) Dwarf race. Only Hyur and Roegadyn have muscle sliders, right?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

:-B

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My point was as Erryk stated. You can ask for viera all you want but it won't be viera. My original statement was just pointing out that Viera would not happen, not a race similar to Viera.


But alright, you point out how aesthetically similar the FFXI and FFXIV races are... that doesn't really argue against my point. If we're talking about a viera-esque race I would still argue that it's unlikely to happen. You may use Galka and Taru as examples why it is a possibility for Viera, but I'm still not convinced. Here's my reasoning:

The races of FFXI and their designs only appeared in one game before FFXIV. There was never an established rule with them. At this point I may argue that these race designs are pretty much reserved for MMOs.
Another example of races that never appeared outside their subseries are the Selkies, Yukes, and Lilties. They would and should be considered Crystal Chronicles series exclusive. There have been quite a number of games they have appeared in, but all have been under the Crystal Chronicles series.
If the Viera, and likeness, are not to be thought as Ivalice exclusive, then why have they only appeared in Ivalice based games and never anything else?

I never said I don't want a Viera-like Race. Just because my views on the idea of introducing it aren't "yes please" doesn't mean I don't like the idea. I am a big fan of Fran and her design. If Viera were introduced I would easily switch to it. I just don't think it's going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Honestly, what would actually be different for this game, at this point, is a (Dragon Age/Middle-Earth styled) Dwarf race. Only Hyur and Roegadyn have muscle sliders, right?

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You just want more men with muscles, don't you? >w>

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

You just want more men with muscles, don't you? >w>

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Why not? A lot of aesthetics in this game seems to favor females.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Why not? A lot of aesthetics in this game seems to favor females.

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I don't know... there are some sexy man speedos.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

You just want more men with muscles, don't you? >w>

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That's one reason, but the other reason is that this game actually doesn't have a short race that isn't cute. It would actually be different.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I don't know... there are some sexy man speedos.

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Speedos are overdone.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

That's one reason, but the other reason is that this game actually doesn't have a short race that isn't cute. It would actually be different.

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To use your earlier argument, I'm not sure short Roes would be much different from anything else already in game.

It actually would be pretty different, especially when you compare it to Viera. You can't simply shrink a Roe down and call it a day (their heads would be tiny and disproportionate with the rest of their body).

But how about this. A short race that is not cute (you have to work for that, like with Roegadyn), but can be as beautiful/majestic/whatever as a Viera... or a dwarf of the Dragon Age/Middle-Earth variety. That would actually be different. I wouldn't even care if they had rabbit ears, just so long as they aren't cute by default (like Au Ra, Miqo'te, Lalafell). This including emotes.

The thing is, though, 'Shrunken Roe' is pretty much the most apt description based on middle earth and D&D Dwarves: Heavily bearded midgets with disproportionately longer and thicker arms compared to other races. They usually have disproportionate small legs as well, from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Speedos are overdone.

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I won't argue that. They are overdone.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

AuRa goes under the Reptilian Demi-Beastmen, their description on the poll even says "ex. a race with demonic features such as horns, etc.".
Link to poll
What's actually fun is that for JP, the option that got the most votes was "Races with Mixed Heritage" (granted by around only 2%), everywhere else (NA, UK, France, and Germany) had "Mammalian demi-beastmen" as its highest voted, an almost 4% difference with their second highest, Races with Mixed Heritage (except Germany, the difference there was about 10%).

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I don't consider them reptilian. If they were less humanistic I'd be more agreeing, however they're presented more mammalian in my opinion, in that they are more human (hyur/elzen) than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I don't consider them reptilian. If they were less humanistic I'd be more agreeing, however they're presented more mammalian in my opinion, in that they are more human (hyur/elzen) than anything else.

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There were two Reptilian options on the poll, Reptilian Beastmen (which is the less humanistic option) and Reptilian Demi-Beastmen (which is the "demonic features such as horns, etc" type).

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I don't consider them reptilian. If they were less humanistic I'd be more agreeing, however they're presented more mammalian in my opinion, in that they are more human (hyur/elzen) than anything else.

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'Demi' is typically used to mean partially, and when it comes to character designs, characters like Mi'qote and Au'Ra are considered Demi humans, and so they are Demi reptilian/human hybrids.

Wouldn't a demi-reptile look more similar to that Silurian race in Doctor Who (Au Ra wish they could pull off the reptile like they do)? If the Au Ra motif was demons, then mammalian makes more sense... or whatever the hell demons fall under.

Goats grow horns, too. Maybe Au Ra are demon goat people :I

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I wouldn't even care if they had rabbit ears, just so long as they aren't cute by default (like Au Ra, Miqo'te, Lalafell). This including emotes.

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The problem with that is this is an Eastern-MMORPG, "cute" and "pretty" are par the course here.
When they did their poll back in 2011, Yoshi-P even said they notices a prioritization with cuteness. Even with the influx of characters we have now, I don't think that will change, FF and SE are just too well know for aesthetics and pretty boy protagonists (and the two female protagonists) for them to decide to jump ship, regardless of the XIV's MMO status.
Dwarves would just be too out there, appearance-wise, and any version of them SE would crank out to appease their expecting fans would, as you put it, no longer be Dwarves. :-B