Why is Yoshi P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?

I'm at work, so cant say much but ive notice I use to get hype to get off and start the patch asap know I just tell myself I can put it off till later my excitement seems not like as it use to be. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Felis

Yoshida only reused it in ARR

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Indeed. But in 1.x, you might still die a few times trying to reach some aetherytes ;)

Remember that thing about midcore content? People have already rushed through the patch it didnt take more than 2 days now they are on the repetative hamsterwheel again that i mentioned. How naive must people be? Does Blizzard really need to release something and take away the playerbase Yoshi P seems to be aiming for in order for him to finally listen?

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Originally Posted by FizzleofHyperion

Does Blizzard really need to release something and take away the playerbase Yoshi P seems to be aiming for in order for him to finally listen?

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Actually, yes.
As long as people continue to pay for the game as it is, it's in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by FizzleofHyperion

Remember that thing about midcore content? People have already rushed through the patch it didnt take more than 2 days now they are on the repetative hamsterwheel again that i mentioned. How naive must people be? Does Blizzard really need to release something and take away the playerbase Yoshi P seems to be aiming for in order for him to finally listen?

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Yes, because it is called competition, and it is what keeps other companies striving to improve themselves.

Also let me ask, do you honestly think they are going to flip the switch and completely revamp how this game's core system works? Should try to find out how to make what is currently in the game better and not have to tear down the foundation to do so. Because while how they release content may be in a flawed state, but the concept itself is solid. Improve the quality.

It would not surprise me if this game goes free to play in 6 more months, or if by FanFest, that was the announcement on stage. It would also not surprise me if the information released at FanFest caused the player base to immediately drop because the content will not change or make a difference.

I could literally go away from the game for a full year, and come back in a week and be caught up. That's pretty sad. I dont necessarily want FFXIs time sink, but Id like more to do with my main class as Dark Knight that doesnt revolve around doing savage once a week and then logging off again.

I want to spend time in this game. But once I get all my tome gear, I stop doing dungeons. Once I get my savage clear, I stop doing that. I NEED something to do!

However, Im taking a path that I know similar players plan to do. Depending on what is announced at FanFest and the next expansion will be whether or not I resub after Oct 16th.

I always keep hearing "this game is gonna go F2P", yet it never does. Has the sky fallen yet?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Indeed. But in 1.x, you might still die a few times trying to reach some aetherytes ;)

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Not really.
You had only to ask someone for a teleport and then touch the Aetherity for your own teleport list. Only some Aether Nots were tricky, because teleport to them only worked via the main Aethrite and you had to go to them yourself to add them into your list.
But every area, that was used for Leves and Behest to level up, was mostly free of danger.

Game is not going to f2p. Ffxiv offers a wide variety of things to do. However that variety is slimmed down to people who only do a small amount of things on that list.

Thus you have complaints. However every 2 years an expansion comes out on top of a monthly sub. And considering HW success last year and recent influx of new players I say the game is doing very well.

One thing yoshi did do is the RMT situation. I haven't received one since patch day

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

It would not surprise me if this game goes free to play in 6 more months

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To be very honest I doubt that this game will ever go f2p, but not because of the poor subscription numbers but because its a Final Fantasy game, so hardcore fans will keep the game running no matter what happens.

Not that is a good thing because most players will just leave, remaining only those hardcore fans that I mentioned. The game will go on but with much lower amount of content (I wouldn't be surprised if in the next expansion we'll get 1 dungeon instead of 2) and overall just less and less stuff to do. It'll just be enough to keep getting income, perhaps with some big server merges and more casual content (I wonder if they ever add a Selfie camera too...we already got a similar thing to garrison followers!)

On top of that the cash shop will constantly be updated with items that while expensive (Heck the new china dress is 13,50 euros) they'll be bought no matter what. Not a bad thing per se but I just have a bad feeling they'll just keep selling basic glamours for high prices because "hey, it sells, let's do it!". And we already pay a sub on top.

At any rate whether the game loses subs or not, I just don't think that the game is going F2P at all. Not with such a big name behind cash on. That would be stupid.

As a general discussion, after having been through a vast majority of games ranging from mmo's to fps shooters, what could Final Fantasy XIV add to the game to extend not only to the Veteran players, but the casual players AND gain some middle ground between both?

Im not talking about more dungeons or more hunts and more quests. Im talking about other content that's NOT in the game.

As someone who played FFXI (and still does today with a sub), a couple things I really think could make a lot of difference and fun are some content pulls from FFXI.

HNMs or Pop HNMs. Content that can be done by a controlled group to spawn a monster that is not something able to be done by an ordinary team of 8 players (alliance), but the rewards range from gil to amazing drops that can be geared for the current content or progression (maybe inbetween gear til you can hit that max cap gear ilvl from savage content)

Dynamis: Wide range zones much like Ancient Tower and the like, but reward players based on relics or currency for gil farming among players along with dropping good quality pieces of gear (which, again, can be middle ground content ilvl to help you obtain or achieve content at max ilvl like savage)

Besieged: A zone away from all other zones that houses attacks every day or other day. NPCs we would normally talk to for purchasing select items in the zone can be captured and retrieved, receiving bonuses like gil or currency for the current content that can be used to purchase items not found in dungeons, but also help progression.

Im not saying I want EXACTLY these things. We dont need FFXI 2.0; but middle ground content that all players can use or be a part of, and still help or be happy with both content from endgame players and non endgame casuals. But the middle ground will still be there. Does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Probably because those people are more numerous.

FFXIV accounts created are around 6 millions. Even considering FFXI and FFXIV 1.x players, we're really really far from that number. And of those 6 millions, we're not really sure of what people actually stayed to make the (I think) 700k players the game still has.
They should post a recent census of the number of Legacy accounts, and the number of SE account with an active FFXI and XIV subscription. They might be a minority.

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I pre-ordered 1.0 on PS3 from Gamestop a LONG time ago, only for it to never be released. I've been here since the beta phase 1 on PS3, and since then, I've only took a two month break due to how poor I played the game, then another 4 weeks due to being out of town for work. During those times, however, I was still subbed (822 days last I checked).

I don't think I can truly ever let this game go, especially considering:

1) I played FFXI from 2005 up until I retired when SE took the game down from consoles.
2) With my current gaming life, I only want to play MMOs. With my loyalty to FFXI, and only wanting to play MMOs, FFXIV is all I need.

Unless I'm going out of town, or there's maintenance, or a power outage in my area, there's never really a day that I DON'T log in.

4.0 will just prove to be exactly everything else we already have seen and it will be HW reskinned. The same repeat when we got when HW came out. Instead of thinkit it was was going to be something mind blowin we got ARR reskinned some a few minor changes.
If SE doesn't start loosing subs things wont change.
It is very sad though that they must start loosing players in order for something to change.
That is the results of adapting to players constantly instead of presenting

To the 4.0 people what do you think will happen thats mind blowing? New jobs that we dynasty warriors button mash away? That new amazing tomestone currency that we havent seen for the 1000 time?
The super nerfs of everything when you barely acheived your goals to enjoy what you acheived before it becomes useless again?
New players getting an instant 60 so they don't have to do anything because someone somewhere things players should not do the same dungeon and content like everyone else on equal terms.
A new relic chapter thats going to be just as of a timesink/gilsink in order for it to be worthelss and not as strong as the current weapons because thats some casual route?

It's impossible to please everyone.

impossible to please everyone? its possible to please everyone just its not probable..... but i will say the devs could easily change up the formula and do something that is completely "out of the box"

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I don't think I can truly ever let this game go, especially considering:

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Are you sure you're still playing for the real qualities of the game and not by habit ?
I still payed my FFXI account for months before I realized that each time I logged off I just didn't have interest in anything...

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Originally Posted by FizzleofHyperion

If SE doesn't start loosing subs things wont change.

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Problem is, you can't prove that taking another path would not result in more susbcription loss.

If you don't like it, just suspend your account. Not as a "Duh, go away and stop bothering us with your whining !" but as a "That's the way you'll express your opinion about the game in a meaningful way".

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Originally Posted by Astral145

impossible to please everyone? its possible to please everyone just its not probable

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No, it's not. The playerbase is too wide and too heterogenous for that. For anything someone want, you can find someone else that want the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

impossible to please everyone? its possible to please everyone just its not probable..... but i will say the devs could easily change up the formula and do something that is completely "out of the box"

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No. It is impossible.

Its possible but is highly unlikely to please everyone... The biggest issue with FFXIV is that it has no real identity ... FFXIV is all over the place yet its going no where which is a riddle in of itself....

FFXIV really needs to step out of the box and start making real content and decide on what it wants to be when it grows up.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Are you sure you're still playing for the real qualities of the game and not by habit ?
I still payed my FFXI account for months before I realized that each time I logged off I just didn't have interest in anything...

Problem is, you can't prove that taking another path would not result in more susbcription loss.

If you don't like it, just suspend your account. Not as a "Duh, go away and stop bothering us with your whining !" but as a "That's the way you'll express your opinion about the game in a meaningful way".

No, it's not. The playerbase is too wide and too heterogenous for that. For anything someone want, you can find someone else that want the opposite.

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money talks and unfortunately dropping sub is a double edge sword.... yes it will let SE know the players are unhappy but on the flip side would SE invest more $$$$ into the game if the bottom line reaches below tolerable levels?

The best option for the dev team is to sit down and lay all the complants/praises on the table and put it into 2 equations... what to keep and what must go....Once you have that the devs can then draw up a plan. This can be done and I hope they are working on this now if not then I wont be buying 4.0. I will be waiting weeks after 4.0 launches to see all the reviews of the game. If i see awesome changes then yes I will buy 4.0. If I dont see any changes or few changes I will then weigh my options and will see if 4.0 is worth buying.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

money talks and unfortunately dropping sub is a double edge sword.... yes it will let SE know the players are unhappy but on the flip side would SE invest more $$$$ into the game if the bottom line reaches below tolerable levels?

The best option for the dev team is to sit down and lay all the complants/praises on the table and put it into 2 equations... what to keep and what must go....Once you have that the devs can then draw up a plan. This can be done and I hope they are working on this now if not then I wont be buying 4.0. I will be waiting weeks after 4.0 launches to see all the reviews of the game. If i see awesome changes then yes I will buy 4.0. If I dont see any changes or few changes I will then weigh my options and will see if 4.0 is worth buying.

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What decides what must stay and what must go? Surely, they have already deciding this and you're clearly unhappy with it.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

No. It is impossible.

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Yes, it is impossible.

So they should stop trying to please everyone.
Stop beating around the bush.
Tell/show us outright which playerbase they want to please so the other playerbase may unsub for all eternity.
Stop stringing us along with halfassed ideas and/or plans.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

The best option for the dev team is to sit down and lay all the complants/praises on the table and put it into 2 equations

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They can't. The vast majority of the playerbase is silent, they won't criticze nor praise you, they'll just play the game.

The population won't drop in a flash, anyway because players play at a different pace. Some rush the content and get bored after 2 or 3 days. Some, after a week, etc...
So, if the majority wants the change, SE will see a slow and steady decrease in active accounts, giving them time to "fix" the game.

For me, I will absolutely buy 4.0, because it will deliver quality content even if for the MSQ alone. Then, I'd probably suspend my account for the next two months (or more) while waiting for 4.1. Rinse and repeat for each major patch. Losing 2/3rd of my fees will not crash the game, of course, but if enough people do that, it will send a clear message while still providing enough initial income to keep the game alive.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Its possible but is highly unlikely to please everyone...

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Express a few changes you'll make, I'm pretty sure someone in this very thread will want the opposite for at least one of them. There, you're not pleasing everyone.

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Originally Posted by Mithrahn

Tell/show us outright which playerbase they want to please so the other playerbase may unsub for all eternity.

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With the recent interview, Yoshi-P kinda did that. That's why I feel those recent pessimist threads are much more serious than before. We know that the game will keep on with the same formula, and some of us don't like that.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

What decides what must stay and what must go? Surely, they have already deciding this and you're clearly unhappy with it.

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Its pretty simple to see what must go and what must stay. The devs can clearly see what the players are doing... For example the devs can see how far each player has gone with the new relic. The devs can tell how often players run each piece of content and when they stop. The devs can also read complaints/praises on all the forums (JPN/NA/EU) and Reddit. They can see when a person subs and how long they stay subbed in-between major patches. I can keep listing more ways to tell if the player base is currently happy with current game.

The point is a lot of players are tired of grinding out tomes for multiple jobs if lucky then once finally reaching a happy point on gear progression for those jobs they have to start all over again. There are too many gates in this game.

Another huge let down are Relic weapons. 2.0 Relic weapon from i70 to i90 was awesome.... but once they added fates then more fates/hunts it killed it for me and for a lot of players I know... I almost picked it back up after getting the relic to i100 but the crafting/materia part which led to a huge gil sinks totally turned me off from wanting an overpriced glamour item. 3.0 is using the same format but slightly different... is it better than 2.0 sorta but it still turns me off...... I love a good grind as long as its stimulating and pushes me to want to be a better player. Content like legendary weapons is meant to motivate new or veteran players to run content that will ultimately make them a better player such as team work and learning difficult mechanics. In return for doing well you get a legendary weapon which carry with you into more incredible content.

In all honesty FFXIV's dev team slaps nurf band-aids on content all because players cant be bothered to get better. So in return we get content that is way to easy and we also get over powered gear that makes everything melt way to fast. I know FFXIV's dev team is talented and can really push awesome crazy content but nobody wants that... nope players just want to get tomes just for signing in daily.... hince why i hate this particular token system... Dont get me wrong I like a well thought out token system that rewards you with tokens for doing something that improves you as a player... meaning learning new mechanics... learning how to optimize load outs and strategies for each piece of content.... Things like that are missing from this game....

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Originally Posted by Mithrahn

Yes, it is impossible.

So they should stop trying to please everyone.
Stop beating around the bush.
Tell/show us outright which playerbase they want to please so the other playerbase may unsub for all eternity.
Stop stringing us along with halfassed ideas and/or plans.

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They are playing around with things to see what will work with the player base. This has all been very vocalized in the Live Letters. If you didn't know that, it's worth staying up to watch them, or catching up on what was discussed from reliable translations. This patch brought about a few changes that came from listening to the player base. All of Alexander has come about from listening to players. It appears they are trying for a happy medium, but the issue therein lies just what that happy medium is.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

The devs can clearly see what the players are doing... For example the devs can see how far each player has gone with the new relic. The devs can tell how often players run each piece of content and when they stop.

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Think about that for a second. The devs can do that...they probably already do...so, if they keep going that way, it's because it currently works.
And why does it work ? Because even those who don't like this system are still doing it. You're bored of farming tomestones yet you're probably still farming them, because it might be useful later...You probably still do some daily roulettes, even if only the trial because it's short...

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Originally Posted by Astral145

The devs can also read complaints/praises on all the forums (JPN/NA/EU) and Reddit.

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Totally irrelevant sample for the whole community.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

They can see when a person subs and how long they stay subbed in-between major patches. I can keep listing more ways to tell if the player base is currently happy with current game. The point is a lot of players are tired of grinding out tomes for multiple jobs if lucky then once finally reaching a happy point on gear progression for those jobs they have to start all over again.

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The thing is, I doubt enough people actually unsub between patches. They probably play less because of boredom, but they still play once in a while (2 hours a week instead of 2 hours a day), so their sub is still running every month. And the dev totally don't care how many hours you play in a month.

You can't post on the official forum without an active account, so, any person who comes here to complain about the game is still funding it.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Its pretty simple to see what must go and what must stay. The devs can clearly see what the players are doing... For example the devs can see how far each player has gone with the new relic. The devs can tell how often players run each piece of content and when they stop. The devs can also read complaints/praises on all the forums (JPN/NA/EU) and Reddit. They can see when a person subs and how long they stay subbed in-between major patches. I can keep listing more ways to tell if the player base is currently happy with current game.

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My husband works 60 hours a week, raids for 9-12 hours a week, caps every week, and that's all the time he has to play the game. Considering he hates MMOs, but plays FFXIV and enjoys it, based on your standards, the devs should look at him and say "oh, we need to change the game." No, it's not so easy to see what "must go and what must stay." Yoshi has already said he is fine with 'fair weather players.'

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Originally Posted by Astral145

I love a good grind as long as its stimulating and pushes me to want to be a better player. Content like legendary weapons is meant to motivate new or veteran players to run content that will ultimately make them a better player such as team work and learning difficult mechanics. In return for doing well you get a legendary weapon which carry with you into more incredible content.

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This sounds like raids, to me.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

In all honesty FFXIV's dev team slaps nurf band-aids on content all because players cant be bothered to get better. So in return we get content that is way to easy and we also get over powered gear that makes everything melt way to fast. I know FFXIV's dev team is talented and can really push awesome crazy content but nobody wants that... nope players just want to get tomes just for signing in daily.... hince why i hate this particular token system... Dont get me wrong I like a well thought out token system that rewards you with tokens for doing something that improves you as a player... meaning learning new mechanics... learning how to optimize load outs and strategies for each piece of content.... Things like that are missing from this game....

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This has less to be with the devs and more to do with player attitudes. There have been plenty of times others have tried to help other players improve, only to receive toxic and hostile responses back. This as silly as I pay my sub, so I'll play how I want and you can't tell me what to do. Even vote kicking someone politely offering advice. However, those aside, SE actually watches how many players actually clear content. Jeeze, only 7.8% of the world's population had cleared T13 roughly a year ago? Still, what you're speaking off sounds heavily like raids. Even if you know a general strategy, that doesn't mean it's optimal for your raid group. It makes me wonder, then, if you simply haven't been exposed to the elements you appear to be wanting.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I pre-ordered 1.0 on PS3 from Gamestop a LONG time ago, only for it to never be released. I've been here since the beta phase 1 on PS3, and since then, I've only took a two month break due to how poor I played the game, then another 4 weeks due to being out of town for work. During those times, however, I was still subbed (822 days last I checked).

I don't think I can truly ever let this game go, especially considering:

1) I played FFXI from 2005 up until I retired when SE took the game down from consoles.
2) With my current gaming life, I only want to play MMOs. With my loyalty to FFXI, and only wanting to play MMOs, FFXIV is all I need.

Unless I'm going out of town, or there's maintenance, or a power outage in my area, there's never really a day that I DON'T log in.

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Much as I complain..I actually fall into your #1, 2 and 3 statement category too. Save for jumping back to some soul calibur every now and then on ps 3 for reasons I wont bother mentioning, FFXiVs all Ive really been interested in playing, with FF11 before that, w/o missing a day pretty much.

I'll be honest..I love FFxiv. I look forward to getting off work , grabbing some dinner, and jumping back in til all godawful hours of the night/ day. Hell...its 2 hours til the fix patch is done and where am I? Watching porn? No..on an ffxiv board. So ya, in spite of all my grumbling, I really like the game. And yes, I'll admit in a heartbeat that Yoshi and team have put some SERIOUS effort (even if money is the #1 motivating factor) into making FFxiv an enjoyable experience. That being said...

I can only compare it to this. You work one unusually hot and long summer, each day...and finally get the money needed for a new bike. Upon getting said bike, you ride it to death...really enjoy it. Through crashes and spills, it holds up better than well, and you have no doubts or regrets that youve gotten your moneys worth. 10 summers later..its time for a new bike. But not even a week after you set yourself to start working for it, mentally prepared to go the distance and all...your uncle gives you a brand new one, free of charge. After a month or so..it breaks. No worries...for soon..he gives you yet another one. This cycle continues for some time, with the generous uncle always being willing to keep you supplied with bikes.

I understand the OPs viewpoints as well as many of the counter arguements. In short, time changes things, for better and worse..and many people feel like 14 is progress, considering the number of players and such. Its just that, if you came from 11, you knew what it ment to suffer, knew what it ment to figuratively be 'poor', knew what it ment to suffer, want, and wait. Weathering all those things, if you were still able to reach your goals, the reward was that much more enjoyable. As well (as anybody who knows what the words Maat and Testimony mean) you were allowed to see just what you were capable of enduring.

Why the HELL would I wanna play an mmo where Im forced to suffer?

I know, I know....and by providing casual friendly, easily accessible content, yoshi's doing his best to shield people from this. But when you become aware of what your limitations are, ESPECIALY when in regards to something that you genuinely enjoy doing (MMOs) then to some extent..you WANT to be tested, you WANT to stretch your muscles, you WANT to take that punch right to the chin, grin, shrug it off and say "that the best you got?" By releasing content that makes you sweat, cuss, and throw your controller at my cat Spanky in frustration, and then you win, its just more satisfying. Nyzule Isle...lamps. Palace of the Dead...no lamps. Which did you look heavenward and give thanks after completing floors? Aleport..you step outside to do some leveling....get gobbie aggro. You run some distance and look behind...and hes still following you. You hit sprint and make a dash for it...look behind again...hes still following you...and getting closer. Youre now almost to the zone...and now hes stabbing you. You make it out the zone with 13% hp..and sweat on your brow cuz you didn't set homepoint.

just asking to make it a little more interesting is all. Not at all saying its bad. Whats there is good. Just put some Jalapeno peppers on it plz.

Not just raids. It can be other kinds of content. Legendary Weapons are not suppose to be easy to get or be easy to upgrade. Adding crafting, fates and low end content makes it easy and extremely boring to get. Which is why I never completed them.

I will never understand the mislead viewpoint that 2.0 was designed for the casual player when the game requires a significant amount of time investment just to progress alongside the current update schedule.

That said, and from the perspective of someone from the small and oft-forgotten 'casually hardcore' subset:

3.0's vast reduction in tedium alongside its notable improvements in storytelling and content variety have kept me confident in the game's direction to-date.

Now, would I like to see more horizontal progression that extends beyond alt jobs and nigh-meaningless materia melding? Sure. I think most would agree, but large scale adjustments take time to do it right. Patience, it seems, is a lost a virtue.

The iLevel conundrum is neither here nor there; if you're not Savage raiding day 1 it's a non-issue entirely. Just wait for catch-up patches. Hell, I just work towards what cosmetically suits my characters. No value otherwise when the marginal stat increases can be outplayed and acquired much more easily several months down the road. Grinding yourself into the ground is, and will alway be, an option.

So why am I here?

There's no other MMO left in the medium today that matches the consistent love, care and quality control that goes into FFXIV's development. The world and lore do it for me, as does the art design. Significant attention to roleplay elements and minor details build high immersion value -- another must-have on my list of priorities. The battles are fun and frantic. I adore how interactive the crafting system is. I'm always finding new things to do. The classic job system and vast array of high-quality cosmetics allows me to build a multi-dimensional character unobtainable in fixed class game design.

Truth be told, there's a lot of sandbox and interaction in FFXIV, two qualities paramount to the genre and forgotten by the competition.

Mind you: there is room for improvement. There always is. But for now, no one does it better.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Legendary Weapons are not suppose to be easy to get or be easy to upgrade. Adding crafting, fates and low end content makes it easy and extremely boring to get. Which is why I never completed them.

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We don't have "Legenday weapons" in XIV. We have raid weapons and relic weapons.
And yes, Relic weapons are supposed to be easy to upgrade. That's the entire point of the quest. But...it takes time.

To be honest, even in FFXI, Relics were not "hard" to get, they were just extremely time consuming.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Not just raids. It can be other kinds of content. Legendary Weapons are not suppose to be easy to get or be easy to upgrade. Adding crafting, fates and low end content makes it easy and extremely boring to get. Which is why I never completed them.

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The difficulty in relic items is the time sink, with anyone being able to get them as long as you have the patience. Raid items' difficulty lies in the difficulty of the content, as well as how well your group responds and can clear the content.

Reynhart: I cant unsub because the sole reason i play FFXIV is because of my FC members on Ragnarok. It is like a big family to me and I enjoy it there. My irl friend has a huge FC on Hyperion aswell and that one is pretty rad aswell. I think that is what keeps us going for now. Eventually we might also fade away due to the structure of this game. It is still a very unpersonal game sadly.

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Originally Posted by FizzleofHyperion

Reynhart: I cant unsub because the sole reason i play FFXIV is because of my FC members on Ragnarok.

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In understand that, but it just means the game managed to trap you.

I also like my FC a lot but more and more people already left out of boredom. Maybe it is why I fnally start considering unsubscribinf between patch.

On the other end, if other people in your FC are bothered by the game's direction, you can go somewhere else together.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

We don't have "Legenday weapons" in XIV. We have raid weapons and relic weapons.
And yes, Relic weapons are supposed to be easy to upgrade. That's the entire point of the quest. But...it takes time.

To be honest, even in FFXI, Relics were not "hard" to get, they were just extremely time consuming.

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and

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

The difficulty in relic items is the time sink, with anyone being able to get them as long as you have the patience. Raid items' difficulty lies in the difficulty of the content, as well as how well your group responds and can clear the content.

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Actually the relic weapons started out as legendary weapons back in 1.x - 2.0 then did a 180 when bringing fate grinding to the table. i70 to i90 relic step was a lot more fun and engaging when that particular content was current. It forced the players to run content that would normally be uncomfortable and in the end made them better players.

Today the weapons are no longer Legendary Weapons... they are easy to get if willing to spend your time doing the same brain dead task over and over and over again so in return you get an over priced piece of glamour that has Legendary Weapon stats on it.

Everything I hear at FanFest will be whether or not I bother to purchase the new expansion or continue subbing after October.

Seriously, why did we get a DF for Lords of Verminion but not one for the 3 Ancient towers OR coil?

Like, does anyone stop to think about these that can really benefit for players to return to the old content but STILL continue to DO that content even after it's faded out? Really? There are so many other ideas that can be replaced OR added, but squeenix decided LORDS OF VERMINION GOT TOP PRIORITY.

Now THAT is something that nobody asked for, and we received. That's something that tells me that squeenix isn't listening to the kind of content we're even asking for half the time and trolling us much like WoW did with their last expansion before they began playing the field on a much better route they drove through.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And yes, Relic weapons are supposed to be easy to upgrade. That's the entire point of the quest. But...it takes time.

To be honest, even in FFXI, Relics were not "hard" to get, they were just extremely time consuming.

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Yeah, if you were in a Dynamis shell and getting the currency for the leader of the LS, that wasn't happening. Outside of that, it cost an average of 60MIL+ to buy all the currency, not too mention waiting JP midnight and runs of Dynamis. Need I remind you the average time for a human to get a relic weapon in FFXI was about 3-4 years in real life time? And we never wait long because they patch it. Your weapons become complete trash by next patch. In FF11, your relic was a ticket into some LS's--just like a K.Club and a Maats Cap. Everyone and their grandma has a relic weapon in FFXIV. That's a HUGE difference. Dont compare FFXI relics to FFXIV relics, because that's a joke and a pitiful one at that. You must not have had a relic weapon in FFXI if you think it was 'easy' to get. It wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Seriously, why did we get a DF for Lords of Verminion but not one for the 3 Ancient towers OR coil?

Like, does anyone stop to think about these that can really benefit for players to return to the old content but STILL continue to DO that content even after it's faded out? .

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yeah that was a really odd decision, i had to laugh when i read it in the patch notes, so far i find dueling kind of fun, but the wolves den pier is so out of the way to anywhere i frequent between queues(squadrons, marketboard, company workshop, tomestone trader) So im sure it will get underused esp by players like me who got chores to do between queues.
LOV is the weirdest piece of content so far its priority to the devs seems very strange like theyre trying to push it on us and just wont move on and fix things like the diadem(for real) the potd fixes have got a few of my friends who refused to do it after a couple runs into spamming it ever since they finished msq.