Novice Network Feedback for SE

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Originally Posted by zeopower6

It was changed so that when you become a mentor, you have to switch on the channel to join (and autojoin from then on until you type it again) the channel.

You type /nnetwork or /nnetwork on and you will enter the network. To toggle off, type it again or /nnetwork off.

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Omg thank you SO much. I have scoured for this info but didn't know what was hindering me. I also thought it'd be an automatic join thing but this makes sense. Though I found nothing ingame that actually told the command to do so.

I joined and this surprised me:

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There are currently 18 mentors (max. 100) and 126 new adventurers (max. 412) participating.

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But that means that the channel setup without automatic join is accomplishing the desired effect. I'm glad I was able to join; I do actually want to help others. Thank you for helping me!

I would like to see harsher punishments for players wearing the crown. I see mentors leaving dungeons all the time after a couple of wipes, refuse to explain dungeons/fights, and will actually yell at a new player when they don't have a clue what's going on because the mentor didn't explain.
Everyone gets a 30 min penalty for leaving a dungeon; I feel mentors should get something longer than that, or harsher than that, or both. Bad behaviour in the mentor network itself should have a strike system of some sort (with strikes being assigned by GMs or something based on what the person said, and not just because someone decided to kick them for fun), with after 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever revokes your mentor status in its entirety.
Being a mentor isn't for fun or games. It's something that should be taken seriously, and I don't see enough of the players with that tag doing so.

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Originally Posted by Ferthi

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Is there even any regulations or checks in place right now that ensure Mentors are doing the job they signed up for and not just abusing it?

7 times out of 10, most mentors I come across literally only got it because they wanted a crown next to their name and don't have a single care towards new players or have any desire to teach or impart their knowledge and tactics of the game. Its especially prevalent at least in my experience in trial roulettes, mentors often end up being the one's who under-perform or afk in the fight or just do nothing at all. It really gives me the impression the gold crown inflates their ego and makes them think they are the elite of the elite so its up to us "lesser" players to do all the work in.

Now I have met some very lovely mentors when I've been in roulettes with 2 green leafs and a mentor and it was a warming experience and delight to see them being genuinely helpful but those true mentors feel so far and few between.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but the requirements to become a mentor are far too low and lenient and takes very little effort at all. There needs to be a feedback system for new the leafs so they can rate the Mentor out of 5 or something but like how when you send a report and a GM can look at what went on, they'll be able to check to see if the new leaves tried to abuse it and get a good mentor kicked out for the lols. (They'd also need to disable friends or pre-mades from rating in the same vein that commendations are done.)

If a mentor is frequently getting low stars they could be suspended from being a mentor for maybe a week, then if they continue to fail as a mentor the punishment gets worse until they lose mentor rights for altogether.

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Originally Posted by Ferthi

I would like to see harsher punishments for players wearing the crown. I see mentors leaving dungeons all the time after a couple of wipes, refuse to explain dungeons/fights, and will actually yell at a new player when they don't have a clue what's going on because the mentor didn't explain.
Everyone gets a 30 min penalty for leaving a dungeon; I feel mentors should get something longer than that, or harsher than that, or both. Bad behaviour in the mentor network itself should have a strike system of some sort (with strikes being assigned by GMs or something based on what the person said, and not just because someone decided to kick them for fun), with after 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever revokes your mentor status in its entirety.
Being a mentor isn't for fun or games. It's something that should be taken seriously, and I don't see enough of the players with that tag doing so.

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A lot of players have the crown just to have it, the restrictions on becoming a mentor are extremely loose. It is not necessarily the mentor's job to explain the fights if there's a new person. If someone is new and they ask for a recap, they'll usually get it. I don't think I've ever seen anyone outright refuse to give an explanation. I've seen new players go into fights they don't know without a word, then are shocked when people question their death/actions. We've assumed you knew what you're doing since you didn't ask questions or state that you were new.

It concerns me that you've encountered screaming mentors. When mentors turn on their crowns, they receive a notification that they're behavior is being watched, but I'm curious as to how much it actually is. I don't agree that leaving a duty should have a harsher punishment on mentors though. As it stands, I don't think that the abandon penalty is very long and in general doesn't deter deserters.

Are the same mentors being kicked that often in your network? If they are, they should be reported for harassment and dealt with by GMs.

I wonder if a good solution would be to make the mentor icon into something less cool. That way at least some of the "want to just to look cool and elite" people might be discouraged from keeping it. I think someone suggested a watering can once, that might work.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

I wonder if a good solution would be to make the mentor icon into something less cool. That way at least some of the "want to just to look cool and elite" people might be discouraged from keeping it. I think someone suggested a watering can once, that might work.

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Think someone also suggested a full grown tree for an icon to represent that the mentor has grown from a sapling into a full fledged adventurer.

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

Is there even any regulations or checks in place right now that ensure Mentors are doing the job they signed up for and not just abusing it?

7 times out of 10, most mentors I come across literally only got it because they wanted a crown next to their name and don't have a single care towards new players or have any desire to teach or impart their knowledge and tactics of the game. Its especially prevalent at least in my experience in trial roulettes, mentors often end up being the one's who under-perform or afk in the fight or just do nothing at all. It really gives me the impression the gold crown inflates their ego and makes them think they are the elite of the elite so its up to us "lesser" players to do all the work in.

Now I have met some very lovely mentors when I've been in roulettes with 2 green leafs and a mentor and it was a warming experience and delight to see them being genuinely helpful but those true mentors feel so far and few between.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but the requirements to become a mentor are far too low and lenient and takes very little effort at all. There needs to be a feedback system for new the leafs so they can rate the Mentor out of 5 or something but like how when you send a report and a GM can look at what went on, they'll be able to check to see if the new leaves tried to abuse it and get a good mentor kicked out for the lols. (They'd also need to disable friends or pre-mades from rating in the same vein that commendations are done.)

If a mentor is frequently getting low stars they could be suspended from being a mentor for maybe a week, then if they continue to fail as a mentor the punishment gets worse until they lose mentor rights for altogether.

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Don't forget that there are also crafting mentors. Not all mentors signed up to help people in duties. We all signed up for different reasons.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Don't forget that there are also crafting mentors. Not all mentors signed up to help people in duties. We all signed up for different reasons.

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I feel like the Crafting Mentors should have been a separate thing altogether and shouldn't grant access to the mentor roulette and maybe a different icon to showcase the difference, so people know what help you can specifically offer and their channel that novice players can choose to enter if they want assistance with crafting.

You can't deny there are a lot of mentors out there who got it simply for a crown next to their name and end up abusing the power they have :/ I mean if you unlocked mentor for genuine reasons then thats great and more power to you and I wish there were more players like that.

But if people are just unlocking for the sake of having a shiny crown in their nametag and not actually helping novices in any aspect then thats rather disheartening and kind of defeating the whole point of the mentor system be it for the crafter or disciple of war/magic side.

Just curious but with this new system, there's basically a way for alts to stay in the network indefinitely for as long as they want just as long as they don't progress in the story. Was this an accidental side-effect of trying to let people in there for longer? It's a little strange IMO to have sprouts in there that have like at least a month of playtime at this point.

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Originally Posted by zeopower6

It's a little strange IMO to have sprouts in there that have like at least a month of playtime at this point.

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It can be a lot longer than a month. I've been playing since the game launched, more than two and a half years ago, have a couple jobs and all crafting classes maxed, and I could still turn the sprout icon back on if I wanted to, just because I'm still playing A Realm Reborn. That "new adventurer" sprout no longer means anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Ferthi

I would like to see harsher punishments for players wearing the crown. I see mentors leaving dungeons all the time after a couple of wipes, refuse to explain dungeons/fights, and will actually yell at a new player when they don't have a clue what's going on because the mentor didn't explain.

Being a mentor isn't for fun or games. It's something that should be taken seriously, and I don't see enough of the players with that tag doing so.

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This.When i do mentor roulette especially when any kind of trial is involved the first to leave are ALWAYS the ones with mentor crowns.And thats before they even tried to beat the trial.And usually if there is one wipe 9/10 times the mentor ragequits.

I think the mentor system is kind of pointless anyway, I mean just something else that people try and use to distinguish themselves differently, although this gets those who use it for the real purpose caught into the same batch, the same people who were helpful or wanted to be continued to be, even before this crown next to your name was there. No real point, but hey you get a crown!

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

I think the mentor system is kind of pointless anyway, I mean just something else that people try and use to distinguish themselves differently, although this gets those who use it for the real purpose caught into the same batch, the same people who were helpful or wanted to be continued to be, even before this crown next to your name was there. No real point, but hey you get a crown!

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Let me guess. You don't use the Novice Network? It's far from pointless. It's allowed a lot of players to get help when necessary. Doesn't matter if people helped already before it, it has greatly expanded the amount of novices you can reach.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Let me guess. You don't use the Novice Network? It's far from pointless. It's allowed a lot of players to get help when necessary. Doesn't matter if people helped already before it, it has greatly expanded the amount of novices you can reach.

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I'm talking about how the mentors themselves, i'm not sure on different servers, but there was no need to add a system where someone is flagged to be a information bank. Survived before will continue to, the network itself I didn't say was bad or useless, it does what it should, helps those who use it and gives new players places to go to.

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

I'm talking about how the mentors themselves, i'm not sure on different servers, but there was no need to add a system where someone is flagged to be a information bank. Survived before will continue to, the network itself I didn't say was bad or useless, it does what it should, helps those who use it and gives new players places to go to.

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And the mentors are the ones providing that help. So the mentor system is fine.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Let me guess. You don't use the Novice Network? It's far from pointless. It's allowed a lot of players to get help when necessary. Doesn't matter if people helped already before it, it has greatly expanded the amount of novices you can reach.

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I quizzed the sprouts that joined out FC in the last month or so and they all disabled Novice Chat as they were sick of the spam filling their chat windows. Any questions or help they needed they asked in FC chat instead. They do not rate the novice network very highly and any mentors they've encountered even less so.

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Originally Posted by DisFlavored

A lot of players have the crown just to have it, the restrictions on becoming a mentor are extremely loose. It is not necessarily the mentor's job to explain the fights if there's a new person. If someone is new and they ask for a recap, they'll usually get it. I don't think I've ever seen anyone outright refuse to give an explanation. I've seen new players go into fights they don't know without a word, then are shocked when people question their death/actions. We've assumed you knew what you're doing since you didn't ask questions or state that you were new.

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The very first rule of mentor is "Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players". In that way, I feel it kind of IS our job to be explaining the fights if there's someone new. I'm kind of lax in it myself, I will only ask if I see a new person bonus if they need boss recaps and provide them when there is something in the fight necessary for them to do/avoid/etc. If they don't say anything, I don't bother.

I thought it should be longer because we do get those rage quitting mentors who are supposed to be an "exemplar of player etiquette" (rule 2). And truly, I don't see leaving after one or two tries to be showing that. A longer penalty for leaving something you are supposed to be helping with would only be fair. I would find it acceptable if it only applied to mentor roulette, since the rest of the time you're not exactly signing up to carry people through a dungeon.

And yes, we have a few... notorious mentors that get kicked extremely often from the network (basically as often as they can get back in) and they HAVE been reported multiple times but nothing has as of yet been done. I have confirmed with a GM that they have the power to revoke mentor status from a player but I haven't seen such a thing happen.

I do think SE needs to do something about the mentors who have no intention to help other players. Alot of the mentors that I have met are a mentor, because of the crown symbol, that is all. Maybe the first step should be to remove the crown and give mentors something else? Something that will not be treated like a novelty.

The new mount being obtained via Mentor roulette does not help either, no idea why SE decided to do this.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I do think SE needs to do something about the mentors who have no intention to help other players. Alot of the mentors that I have met are a mentor, because of the crown symbol, that is all. Maybe the first step should be to remove the crown and give mentors something else? Something that will not be treated like a novelty.

The new mount being obtained via Mentor roulette does not help either, no idea why SE decided to do this.

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I've been thinking this. The mentor icon should be something less "cool" so that people won't want it just to look "elite". I think someone mentioned a watering can somewhere in this thread or one like it. I think that would be fun and fits in with the sprout/planted sprout newbie theme.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

I've been thinking this. The mentor icon should be something less "cool" so that people won't want it just to look "elite". I think someone mentioned a watering can somewhere in this thread or one like it. I think that would be fun and fits in with the sprout/planted sprout newbie theme.

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Indeed watering can or a tree to show that the sprout has grown up, would be a better icon.

Bring back the big ugly M icon from XI.
That'll get the job done.

My experience on Siren is that the novice network was very helpful, as were the mentors. Especially those times where I had to call for help because our tank ditched us. It was very informative and a good place to make groups looking to do the same content.

Though I had heard that Siren's Novice Network was something of an exception compared to other servers. I was told horror stories of how other servers were using their novice networks simply to bicker and argue about class balance, raid difficulty, etc.