The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

I'm just gonna copy+paste another post since I have a feeling I'm going to be regurgitating this for the next 2 months until people get tired of complaining.

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Originally Posted by Velox

People have the wrong idea about the mentor system. You don't have to be an expert at everything to be mentor. Your job is to give a newbie a push start if they need help. That's all it is. You don't have to be an expert, you simply need to understand the basics of the game.

Imagine the mentor system like grade school. Your Trigonometry teacher may not have the skill and talent to work for NASA designing rocket engines, but he knows enough about Trig, even math in general, to give YOU a kick-start at life. He doesn't need to be the best, he just has to know the basics.

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I think the requirements are fine as-is. I know some very good players who are getting cut out of the mentor loop due to not having a healer or a tank or a DPS leveled, but that was a decision they made a long time ago ("no alt classes.")

And it's not like you're stopped from becoming a mentor forever and ever. Level a healer class. Level a tank. Burn through the last few hundred dungeons you need. The more you explore what the game has to offer, the better a player you'll be.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

You don't need a fancy title to help people.

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This. Exactly.

What I do now, is what I'll be doing as a mentor. A fresh 50 PLD one day stopped me to note how pretty me character is (side note: why does that happen so much?), and somehow that became an hour of teaching him PLD 101 when he noted that he didn't truly know proper tanking. He was also mostly wearing DEX accessories. Calmly, I made corrections and did some practice drills and in the end sent him a friend request with an offer to ask me for help anytime.

I COULD'VE berated him for not knowing what he should know at 50 and possibly discouraged him from tanking, but by taking time to teach and share what I know (having started as a PLD myself), I may very well have cultivated a future tank expert on my server. Maybe even a future mentor.

It's not about the status, or people who might do it wrong or abuse it. It's about providing on-sight identity to people who already do such things.

I think the requirements are perfectly fine. People are complaining about requiring to have 1 tank, 1 healer and 1 dps at lvl 60. I dont see the problem here. If how they explained it correctly you are to give insight on the role that player is playing. Meaning if you are playing as a dps and have not leveled a tank to lvl 60 how can you give proper insight if the person you are mentoring is a tank.

At the end of the day its about providing on-sight knowledge about the role.

The most important thing to remember is you are there to help new players, not speed run through content.

The reason they have these requirements is because they want someone who A) has gotten some sort of commendations, yes you can get them sometimes for nothing but people get a lot more by being helpful and a good player. B) they want someone who has experience in all roles explaining this is why, as say a tank, you want to do this; because it helps healers since you do that, it helps dps because you position like this: basically, you have the knowledge from all 3 classes to help explain things to any three types your mentoring. C) they want you to have ran over 1000 things so you are very familiar with mechanics and can easily explain how or why to do something in every instance. Sure you may start late and still understand things. But wouldn't someone want a mentor with a LOT more time spent learning and playing content?

Anyways, point is they want people who have went the extra mile to explore everything the game has to offer. Its pretty easy in my opinion to see they want people who really want to learn everything teaching others. And that's good.

I don't remember which page it was on but someone asked what would I have made the requirements since I don't like the current.

Keep commendations

-Must have 1 lv50 DPS, Healer, and Tank
-Must have completed the 2.55 storyline
Reason: I would tone it down to 50 because as I said in a previous post, the fundamentals of the game, fundamentals that new players will likely need help with, were already built an established with 2.0. So players who were level 50 at 2.0-2.55 can teach just as good as a level 60(Level 60 abilities in no way change fundamentals of roles while leveling. A conjurer has no business knowing about Asylum, Assize, Stone lll, etc, because if they are a sprout, they are far from that stuff. Those abilities aren't beneficial to the fundamentals. They are just add-ons. Basically imagine if mentoring was added in 2.55, I'm certain the current people who will be good mentors with lv60s would be just as good mentors before as lv50.
I don't remember which page it was on but someone asked what would I have made the requirements since I don't like the current.

Since the mentoring only works for 40hrs, the likely dungeon possibility would be lv15-44 dungeons. Cutter's Cry is pretty far in for a "true newbie" to get to though within 40hrs, if they aren't rushing through everything or receiving help. This is all ARR content so why need HW knowledge?

Then there are some other reasons that involve veteran players who lack HW. Because unless I'm mistaken, you need HW to get 60. Which means you need $$$ to get 60. That's a bad requirement in my opinion and locks out any ARR players who thoroughly know their roles and can teach things about the game better than lv60s. Because the game doesn't change that much with HW(a complaint about Heavensward)

-Must complete 300 Dungeons/Trials
-Must have Lv50 Roulette Unlocked
Reason: I believe 1,000 dungeons/trials is way overkill to ensure someone knows something to the fullest considering the amount of dungeons/trials that are actually in the game. Things should be able to be grasped way before then... Just playing a long time should offer knowledge and adaptation to all casual content 2.x. 1,000 dungeon experience to help people in lv15-44 dungeons seems ridiculous to me.

Now here's how I think the current issues can be fixed. As someone else in this thread suggested: More mentoring options. And I'd set it up like this:

Mentoring: Leveling
-Must have 300 commendations
-Must have 1 lv50 Healer, DPS, and Tank
-Must have completed the 2.55 story
-Must have completed 300 dungeons/trials
-Must have Lv50 Roulette unlocked

Mentoring: Progression Lv50
-Must have 350 commendations
Roulette Requirements:
-Must have 1 lv60 Healer, DPS, and Tank(Personal Job teaching unlocked)
-Must have completed Heavensward
-Must have completed 500 dungeons/trials
-Must have Lv50 Roulette unlocked

Mentoring: Lv60
-Must have 400 commendations
Roulette Requirements:
-Same as Progression 50
-Must have completed Heavensward
-Must have completed 750 dungeons/trials
-Must have lv60 Roulette unlocked
-Must have Expert Roulette unlocked
-Must have Alexander(NM) completed
-Must complete certain Stone Sky Sea dummy contest whatever they may be

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Originally Posted by Kyros

TL;DR: OP is salty?

If anything, these requirements are way too easy. Over 90% of my FC is already qualified without doing anything.

Oh, and yes you need to have a Tank a Healer and a DPS if you want to teach your mentor. Why? Because trying to teach someone to DRG without having the perspective of how things play out from the other 2 ends of the job-spectrum is terrible. Tanks who have played healers and DPS are generally better tanks (Because they understand how Healer DPS and DPS positional works), etc.

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All I'm missing is power leveling the last few levels into Scholar/Summoner (Which I need to do anyway) and I qualify. The pre-reques do one thing an one thing only. Keep newbies from teaching newbies. Which I think is what it was intended to do.

Skill levels are always a variable. You can have people who've played since 1.0 dropped way back when but if they "Do what they want, cause don't tell them how to play" their skill level is vastly lower than the guy 30 days into his first character who master his Main Job, picked up a few side classes, and is always giving his all in every run he does.

And the spectrum goes all over the place. I'm towards the middle. I Casually Raid. I run dungeons and some EX Primals, I've beaten coil but don't (And likely won't) run Alexander's Savage Modes, And I do my best with what I know. I still end up learning though quite frequently so I'm no master. But I try, Pay attention, and give rookies an honest chance. Something a lot of "Filthy Casuals", "Hard Cores", and "Master Elites" refuse to do.

Thus the mentor system.

These requirements are super lax. If anything they compel people to try jobs they haven't tried before (like you guys would be surprised they'd do that).

Having people understand tanking, dpsing and healing is actually important. I think nearly anyone can attest to someone on a role other than yours, barking orders at you as to what skills they want you to use on them (IE: Tank barks: Healer keep HoTs on me constantly! 1 min later: Why are you pulling stuff off me before I can pull it!?!?!) but it is often a request that shows they don't understand how your role works. Granted, mentoring could have been greatly simplified if they didn't put that requirement but I by no means find it unreasonable.

I think I had like every requirement on the list in the first 2-3 months of play...and I am by no means unique or unusual. Side note, I don't plan to mentor at all.

Your made-up requirements just sound like you want to be a mentor and you do not meet the current ones.

As for your 3 different mentor model, it's counterintuitive for the following reasons. Your rotation, especially as DPS, is very different from your lv 52-60 skills, and with cases like BLM, completely redefined. it's completely unnecessary to have a mentor instill a level 50 rotation into their pupil, having the pupil think that that is how their job will behave in the future, and when they "graduate" (for lack of a better word) and get a new mentor, they'll be told "hey, remember what that guy taught you? Yeah ok, throw that out." The second reason ties in with the first one: why be bouncing around multiple mentor branches when you can have one that fits the entire bill? It sounds like a lot of unnecessary work for SE instead of implementing one "end-all-be-all" mentor category, just because you don't meet the current requirements and insist that you should still be a mentor.

Sorry, on phone, can't edit, so please excuse my grammatical errors. Also, as a small continuation to my last post, not everyone needs to be able to become a ment

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

In this game EVERYTHING is set to put people in connection, do you even see something said in DF ? where peopel are connected ? how many times do you have more then a hi? tell me?

This game is supposed to be a social game do you see any of it with random people? no or rarely.

what makes you think that the Mentor system will be better?

Having a 1000 comm doesnt make you a good player and even less a good mentor, having all classes at 60 doesnt make you a perfect player either it just tells that you have been reaching that end goal is all.

My concern is with Mentors that are going to expect pupils to listen to them and do what they say without having a say, with Mentors that will call stupid players for not doing it right right away, with Mentors that dont have a clues, you can only Mentor thee that you feel at ease with, not everybody can be a Mentor or know how to do, because in the end you still deal with real people.

So many things that are in a way soo wrong that makes this system in essence good, become as I said a pandora box, but let say I am seeing bad where there is only good right

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I'm sorry, but your rant at the start there shows that you don't understand what the system is.

DF isn't there as a social event. It's purpose isn't to have a deep conversation in your runs. DF is a tool for finding others who want to run the same content as you, that is all. That you expect it to do more than that shows that you don't know the purpose of the tool.

So it's a social game, does that mean the everyone has to be social in the way you want them to be, all the time. People are people and will behave how they want.

But that rant has nothing to do with how people use or will use the mentor system. It is a tool for putting people who want to learn, in contact with people who have said they are willing to teach. That is it's purpose, that is why it is there, why on earth would you compare it to the DF? People will go to it for help of course they will say more than "hi" they are there for the help. If they just want a run, they will go to DF.

Also, what is so hard to understand that the 1000 comm and classes to 60 isn't about getting perfect or great Mentors. No it does not mean you know everything, however, you are more likely to know more, and in depth than someone who leveled only one job and has very few comms. It shows that you have been around and active, so likely know more than average.

Is it a guarantee? No, not for a second. Will people who know little make it through and teach poorly, yes. It is not a be all end all for getting a perfect mentor, but it is a filter, it won't strain out all bad players, but it will filter some out. Making the system better than just an open door one.

Also, is it a hard concept that a symbol next to your name is an identifier for people who are looking for help? Rather than just shouting randomly, they see a person with the marker and can ask for help. It's purpose is not some not to mark someone as an e-peen swinging jackhole for you to judge.

Of course people will abuse the system, you can't have a system in an online video game that is 100% free of a abuse, to think one can be is more than a little foolish.

Also, of course some mentors will expect the pupil to do exactly what they say, others won't, there is more than one way to teach, and surprisingly, more than one way to learn. Some will just want to be told exactly what to do, some will want to know why they do that, some will want far less.

The mentor system is a tool, and will be used different ways. Some good, some great, some bad. Time will tell us, but I highly doubt it will be anything as dramatic as "Pandoras Box"

You claim to be some kind of a helpful person, but how does a random player looking for help know that you are? How do you know a random player is looking for help. Most people don't want to shout it out to the world that they need help, and it would get pretty annoying to have someone spamming chat with "NEED HELP, SEND TELL, I AM HERE TO HELP ANYONE ANYTIME!" or some such.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Sorry, on phone, can't edit, so please excuse my grammatical errors. Also, as a small continuation to my last post, not everyone needs to be able to become a ment

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I found the solution to this issue.

There is an options menu in all phone browsers in the same section as "New Tab" that will specifically say "Request Desktop Website". when you check that box (And I recommend you be on a wifi connection since the data strain will go up) the full PC webpage will load. In this website's case it'll take you back a few menus but you can then re access the forum and the Edit and Advance Post buttons will be available.

Then by simply toggling the check mark back off it'll refresh as the Mobile Version like it was before. Annoying yes, but currently the only way to edit a post with out an actual Computer.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

I believe a witty English author once said it best,

Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made a mentor in a silly online game should on no account be allowed to do the job.

I might be paraphrasing a bit though.

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This requires more upboats than I can give. Thank you.

And I ALWAYS keep my towel handy.

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Originally Posted by Odett

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The Progression Lv50 mentoring would be for progressing through Lv50-59. A level 50 rotation shouldn't be instilled unless the mentee asks for something that deep. Otherwise, they can progress through 2.x story and Heavensward. They do not need long mentor sessions for 50 progression. They can just ask for tips within the mentoring linkshell that would hopefully be there. Lv60 Mentoring would be for instilling final rotations. 40 hours is barely enough for leveling up as is. To be honest I think it should either be increased greatly or not go away at all. 40 hours is simply not enough time. I think there should absolutely be more than one mentoring because in 40hrs you can learn some things, but you won't be scratching the surface on what the game has to offer. "Mentoring: Progression Lv50" would handle everything Lv50 and after 50 excluding 60.

There's a Leveling world, a Level 50-59 world, and a Level 60 world. Each of those are completely different from each other and it's a lot to learn at once. Players need more than one teacher that's how teaching works. I can't count how many times I was told to stop using an old math method for a new one by a teacher of a "higher level" for example. Like, using the Lattice Method in elementary school then go to middle school and teachers say don't do that. Mentees need multiple views from multiple teachers but sure, they can make a longtime friendship with a teacher.

As for needing lv60? The entire game.. all of the mechanics that you need to know and experience are all packed into one thing, Lv50. Because remember, HW doesn't offer many new ones. Lv50 has it all. There is MUCH more to learn at 50 than lv1-49 regarding the game. This current mentoring won't help with that at all. Because if you reach 50 within 40hrs as a newbie you definitely don't need mentoring. Heck, I'd want you as my mentor.



Requirements? I don't even qualify for the requirements of my own requirements. Because of jobs leveled.

@whiteroom we see things differently. You dont have to agree, until proven wrong my opinion and vision is as valid as yours.Time will tell how could this system is, right. The use of DF by low levels that are still under mentoring limits will me met with less patieence than is today. Level 60 df party this day SMN never used aby dots didnt see the need to. Used titan because is cool. I checked loadestone he is well within requirements for mentorship and probably will ve one.. tell me doesnt it wordy you? It does me and this is not an isolated case

Does someone know how the mentor system works?

It seems to me it's just a new world chat channel with all mentors and "sprouts" inside and a new roulette for the mentors, where they get duties with chars who didn't clear that content before.

Is it like i understood it or may i be wrong?

Legion...that's pretty much what I got from what they've released so far, so I believe you're right. Anywho...

I've read a lot on this thread from both sides of the argument, and it's made me come to one conclusion - I don't need this "mentor system" to be a mentor.

When I first read there was going to be a mentor system, I was hardcore excited. I thoroughly enjoy helping new players, and do so on a regular basis. Having an in-game system to help advocate that sounded awesome.

When I read the requirements, I was disheartened. I play this game very differently from most people, and because of my playstyle I will never have access to this system, at least not the battlecraft side of it (I have multiple characters and all jobs spread out amongst them. I won't be changing that.). It's not that I think the entirety of what's called for is ridiculous, in fact much of it makes sense (i.e., the requirement to have knowledge of all three roles). It's that it's now causing people who want to be a mentor to play in a specific way, so to that extent, I agree with OP.

But much of the opposing side has brought up many legitimate arguments as to why these requirements make a lot of sense, or at least why they're going to be implemented, even though it means someone like me who loves to mentor can't be a mentor. I won't go into all that's been said, but they got me thinking...do I really need this system to help people? Is SE maybe implementing this to encourage people who have the skill, but not the want, to become helpful? Is this system really for helpful people, or people who can help but typically don't?

I realized that, despite my original excitement, in the end I won't be missing out on anything, I can still help players without being a "mentor". Besides, from my experience, having skill does not make one a good teacher, so the whole thing might become moot anyway. Either way, I guess I'm saying I don't think this is as big of a deal as we would be made to believe. If I'm wrong, then problems are going to ensue, no matter which side of this debate you're on, and then we'll have to wait for things to get fixed. I believe we're all used to that by now...

@Blatant

I agree so much with you in this. Exactly my feelings expressed in a diplomatic way.

Erhm...I have the requirement in two characters.... They are not that hard?...

There's a reason for everything, I think your OP message is too salty.

As an all-arounder and one all-60 (Who didn't norther thanalan, and who can use all jobs with a really good degree of proficiency) I tell you, having all 60, GIVES YOU more than the basics and knowledge..... You can say you are an awesome DRG just by having your DRG leveled, but, you are UNABLE to understand the other roles, you didn't have to be in their place. You don't understand your tank or your healer or your caster, and because you don't understand them, you are less companion, you understand less some of the reasonings under the mechanics....

You understand way more about everything when you have been playing with all the roles, especially in the serious-raid ambient. I still thinking, yeah, maybe if you use all jobs, good, you become just a jack of all trades, maybe, but, I still think that it's not possible to become the best in your job if you didn't taste other roles.

And, perhaps, SE wants mentor people that can show the basics of everything to someone, not a DRG specialist that can be only mentor of DRG. Would you be a decent mentor if a new player asks you "So, sensei, how's healing here? Is too hard? Is it funny? And tanking?" What would you reply to that, what experience did you got to avail you?.


(Also, for comms... I got 2600+ in one char, 300+ in another... And I'm super quiet. Sometimes, what gives you the comm is not to spam a "Hello everyone *insert moogle picture here* :3 !" macro at the beginning and a "Thanks for the lovely party! ♥ " macro at the end, no, sometimes what gives you the commend is to fight with competence and serious skill. Or at least, don't be doing auto-attacks and a few random GCD like 50% of DF does... I always go and do my stuff 100% of my capacity in battle, and, even if I'm quiet, some people can see that, that I'm putting effort to make this a speedrun. )

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Originally Posted by Toguro

The mentoring requirements.. sigh*

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I'll give you my opinion!

300 Commendations
Commendations can be farmed and random, but it's just a filter to make sure you queued with other players, rather than queuing with premades. Why would you want to be a mentor of random people if you didn't even play with random people?
Also 300 commends is a very very low number!

Lv60 Healer, DPS, and Tank
You need to know ALL perspectives of this game. You may be a good DRG, but you've gotta know when you're wasting the healer's MP or you're disturbing the tank. So you've gota experience all the sides, because when you're a mentor you have to give tips to everyone, not just the DRG (if there is any).

1,000 Instanced Dungeons or Trials
With 1000 dungeons you should be aware about how this game works, with all many different mechanics. 1000 is a good number.



Being a mentor is not "just a feature". You need the experience and the ability to answer any questions about any mechanic, any job, anything. You might feel good enough, but no, you need the experience. You can always get ready before patch 3.2 if you really would like to be a mentor.

Whats that people who cant become mentors? You'll have to speak up! I can't hear you through the engine sound of my golden magitek.

*flies off as her best gown ever flaps in the wind*

Finally, a distinction that separates us super-casuals from the dirty, lower class plebian casual. Can't wait to tell all the sprouts not to listen to the un-crowned yuppies wandering around trying to help them.

At this point I've stopped taking this thread seriously, I actually feel embarrassed that I even did so in the first place. You've got people who purposefully feel singled-out by a system that's supposed to be for the good of the community, somehow making it about themselves rather than the new players. Feeling jilted because of the limited metrics they had to use and what made the most sense is ridiculous. You can still help a player out regardless of whether you've got some icon next to your name or not.

Let's all just try and make the game a better place, y'all.

*yawn* one thing people seem to think is that a mentor system should be everything from how to tie my shoelaces to teach me how to be the ultimate DPS PLD that noone else can beat in DPS!

As some people have put it, it is meant for the new to the game players, the ones that might even be new to MMOs. To explain things about the game(though that is getting a bit of a brush up as well(I had no clue what a tank was when I started back in the beta days)). Tell them about some quests they might want to pickup no matter what, how they can level, point them in the right direction if they're lost. Basics - stuff that a FC generally would provide but sadly a lot of blind invite FCs don't :(

For those that want to improve in their own jobs - you do this thing called... what was it... research yeah... that's it... research rotations, research your skills(you can do this while playing - read the tooltips(also those on your buff bars and such) and once you think you have a solid understanding maybe seek out some of the best players for your job on your server or just even your FC to talk about getting even better.

The worst they can do is say no I won't help you. But you would be surprised how helpful some can be.

Again, this matter is really being blown out of proportion.

No, you don't need the title of mentor to help new players. But think of it like this: would you be more willing to take medical advice from any random person, or someone you can clearly identify as a doctor?

It's not about rotations at 50 vs 60, or how to be really awesome at one particular job. You're a guide. You're there to answer questions and assist where needed. Every new player isn't incompetent and needs their hand held. But some may miss a few things, or get lost, or need that extra bit of advice/clarification on something. THAT is what you're there for as a mentor. They can (and have to) learn the rest themselves.

It needs to be said: if you don't meet the requirements, that's entirely on you. The game's been around long enough that there's little reason or excuse outside of personal ones to not have multiple jobs leveled and the requirements met (if you've been playing the entire time).

If you still have the will to help, do it! Push yourself to learn along with the newer person, and you'll be surprised how fast the requirements are met. I'm finally leveling WAR to help a friend who wanted to learn WHM. And I realized I enjoy the job. They realized healing isn't so scary. We share what we know of the jobs we're leveling with each other, and we're both better for it. This is happening NOW, without fancy titles or statuses.

u guys are forgetting something U DONT NEED A MENTOR SYSTEM to gasp mentor now ...go to starter zones and start helping sprouts. Some of u already are , i have seen it , the other day in Aleport a newbie asking how to change class , a group started talking , and then more ppl started asking questions , how to go to Uldah, how to get a chocobo ect.

I got a flashback from FFXI where i started playing (and had 0 clue what i was doing) and ppl were really helpfull with sprouts in FFXI explaining where to buy scrolls, how to buy/sell from AH, how the job system works , reputation with cities , Missions , and what not.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

u guys are forgetting something U DONT NEED A MENTOR SYSTEM to gasp mentor now ...go to starter zones and start helping sprouts. Some of u already are , i have seen it , the other day in Aleport a newbie asking how to change class , a group started talking , and then more ppl started asking questions , how to go to Uldah, how to get a chocobo ect.

I got a flashback from FFXI where i started playing (and had 0 clue what i was doing) and ppl were really helpfull with sprouts in FFXI explaining where to buy scrolls, how to buy/sell from AH, how the job system works , reputation with cities , Missions , and what not.

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so much this..so much this.

when you need a title to do something the whole system is already wrong from the start.

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Originally Posted by Toguro

..looking for things to complain about

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You are really trying your best to find the flaws. Without any real helpful ways to improve the system that isn't even out yet.

The flaws you put in are valid, do not get me wrong. I will say that the negative things you've mentioned will happen. But to what %? We can't say. Look at it a bit further down the road..not just a month, but by next patch.

By 300 commendations you've probably know your job, or you're at least showing you are kind enough to others for some reason. It doesn't matter if you did nothing, but a lot of those people who do commendations look for more than just handing one out. People get commendations not just for doing nothing all the time. You get them also by doing your job, not saying nothing and showing that you are capable, because last run someone may had a person in that job that performed horribly.

Or someone who has the patience for someone who is new, explains the issues or lets them learn.

I can go on, but I agree with the reasons. I just don't think it will be as high of a % as things go on. Eventually also, things will filter out the people who are bad and things we will mostly see those who are good. But I am optimistic. It will be okay baby, just sit back..relax and enjoy the game.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

u guys are forgetting something U DONT NEED A MENTOR SYSTEM to gasp mentor now ...go to starter zones and start helping sprouts.

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There we go! Exactly. There are people out there already helping. This just gives them an achievement and acknowledgement for helping people.

If you really want to be a mentor, the requirements SE laid out aren't exactly hard to meet.

There's also a small, near semantic, diffrence between A Teacher and Mentor.

Anyone can say "This is how it's done. Now do it that way" but a mentor had a different level of comradery with their student.

I've helped plently of people and often go out of my way to help new players and see many that do. I've also seen a few bad apples lead them astray for laughs. The symbol is just that, a symbol. Like everything the good and bad will reveal its self.

The ones who go out of their way to be friends and good mentors will be remembered. As will those that take advantage of and lead their students astray. All the system is, is an incentive to make you ability and willingness to help them known.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

so much this..so much this.

when you need a title to do something the whole system is already wrong from the start.

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I'm already helping whenever I can, and I will do the new Mentoring, but not for the title, because it's a path to bring newbies and veterans together. I even think that most Mentors are not even doing it for the title. Have a bit of faith in the community, (I know it's hard) there are still good people out there

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

@whiteroom we see things differently. You dont have to agree, until proven wrong my opinion and vision is as valid as yours.Time will tell how could this system is, right. The use of DF by low levels that are still under mentoring limits will me met with less patieence than is today. Level 60 df party this day SMN never used aby dots didnt see the need to. Used titan because is cool. I checked loadestone he is well within requirements for mentorship and probably will ve one.. tell me doesnt it wordy you? It does me and this is not an isolated case

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How are you not getting that it is a system that allows those who are looking for help to identify and easily find those who are willing to help, and vice versa? You can go and randomly help people who may or may not need or want your help, or you can connect with people who want help easily. Or you can say "I mentoerd before it was cool, I don't need that system."


Your comment about the SMN shows you didn't even read, or if you did read, did not understand my post, and that you continue to not understand the purpose of the requirements for mentor.


Also your coment later about needing a title to teach shows that you can either not grasp the simple concept of what the system does in the most basic sense, that you are willfully ignoring it, or a third option.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a tool, the success of the job depends on the user.

Does it worry me bad players will be able to mentor, no. To me your inability to grasp what the system is is just as telling as that SNM not using dots, and I'm not saying that to insult, it's just the way I see it. Bad players can and do mentor people now, if you care to understand better, read my previos post, the one you @whiteroom responded to.

I agree that you don't need a title to help people, but like Whiteroom said, it's a lot easier for a newbie to identify players that are willing to help if they have a mentor icon next to their name.

@Toguro
I definitely agree that 40 hours is too short for a player to be considered a newbie, but think of that mentor period more as an icebreaker. After they're no longer newbies, you can add them to your friends list, or make a linkshell if the player would like further guidance into the game.

Yay, wall of text incoming, accumulated while reading the thread...

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Originally Posted by Toguro

How will tanking or healing help me teach a Bard?

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Like others have said before (multiple times), it gives you perspective on what makes a bad Bard from a tank or healer's PoV. Like, for example, kiting an enemy when you accidentally draw aggro, instead of switching target and letting the tank get the mob back.

For me personally, I didn't even realize there was such a thing as positional attacks until I picked up PGL when I got closer to lvl30 on my GLD. I'd started to keep mobs relatively stationary before that, however. Not due to positionals, but in order to not accidentally hit healers or casters with cone AoEs. I probably frustrated many PGL and LNC back in the day, because my first transition from dodging AoEs by running through the mob and then staying there was to turn it 90 degrees instead (I remember doing this on that 'Died in Six Arms' boss crab many times) ^^; And then when I levelled PGL it clicked that even doing that would be bad ^^;

And yeah, I know these are things you learn a lot sooner than 60, but like someone else said, it's more likely you'll have levelled more than those three classes at least for a bit if you have those three at 60, due to cross-class skills. PGL, for example, has its last cross-class (Mantra) at 42, meaning those who play WAR, BRD, DRG and NIN seriously enough to want them at 60 are likely to have levelled MNK at least halfway to 60. Most others have their last cross-class at around 35. Which means that you'll be more likely to be able to give specific advice to the other party members you end up with as a mentor -- you'll hardly be able to give advice to another tank if you're the tank, or another healer if you're the healer, after all.

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Originally Posted by DragonHunterG

For the healer class you need at level 60, can't you just level SMN? Once you're level 60 SMN, you're automatically level 60 SCH. Unless I'm missing something, you don't have to heal at all in order to do that.

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xD I was just thinking to myself, "Damn. I have WAR and SCH at 60, but I'd need to get to levelling my MNK in order to meet the requirements D: That's going to take ages, considering how slowly I level..." and then you go and post this. I had completely forgotten SMN... Mainly because I'm a craptastic SMN and can barely handle the level 50 skills. Keeping track of Dreadwyrm on top of that? D: No. Just no. Doesn't help that I have a SMN in my FC who has an e-peen the size of Dalamud ;_; I'll never manage to not compare myself to her.

And while it does feel like 'cheating the system', especially since I've just admitted how utterly worthless I am as a SMN, I do know it enough to be able to help people with less than 30 hours of playtime ;) Those players are highly unlikely to have progressed beyond level 50, unless they're a speed leveller (in which case they might not even need said help).

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Originally Posted by Tint

hu? i have done over 3700 dungeons and i have never seen someone being kicked because of a lack of cross-skills. not even the WAR tank in ultima hm without provoke was being kicked xD

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Maybe they don't get kicked all that often, but they're certainly likely to not get a commendation if their lack of cross-classing has lead to any sort of hindrance during the run. Like lack of Provoke in a situation where it would have been useful or necessary, or lack of Swiftcast leading to trouble getting a Raise through mid-combat.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The mentoring system being a roulette in the first place makes me question whether it's actually intended to teach much of anything, as opposed to, say, a cross-realm PF listing. "Mentor wanted. About to run a quick dungeon. 3/4. Looking for a skilled all-60 mentor to coach how to successfully speedrun a dungeon." "DRG looking for mentor for improving opener and fight strategy, and BotD maintenance." "Healer looking for a healer-dps coach mentor." Those kinds of things would actually get you some real training.

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On the other hand... there's nothing that hinders people from putting up those kinds of PFs now. Sure, they wouldn't be cross-realm, but...

I think the biggest threat to the system is that they are not releasing it in a standalone patch. Instead, they are releasing it at the start of a treadmill reset. There looks to be some large amount of grinding coming in that will occupy a lot of the people who meet the requirements for a good while.

I myself tend to do a lot more helping at times like now, near the end of a patch cycle, and I notice others doing the same. So releasing it the start could have a "dead in the water" effect for it. Of course it could have an unitentional effect of more people who are casuals and not as focused (read: people who don't know class basics, not saying casuals are bad, but people who are so casual that they dont know their own class are bad.) having the time for the system at the start, inflating the ranks of people who will for example, say "A healers job is to heal, don't dps"

Not checking 20 pages to see if this was mentioned, but on the other side of the mentor fence, after tonight I will qualify as a mentor, despite still feeling clueless.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or if this is just how it's meant to be coming into endgame before grabbing endgame gear, but I still have trouble getting 100%HQ/max scrip tier on even things below 60, and FORGET about HQing high level mats themselves. I'm lucky to push chimerical felt to 60% HQ (from NQ manes). I don't know if this is normal or I'm just bad. ARR everything was so easy, 100% all the time while leveling, class quests super easy even on just the NQ tools the previous ones gave. HW even getting HQ tools from a friend I never stood a chance at 100% on same-level class quest crafts. Even doing 58 quests at 60 I end up with 70-80% HQ chance.

And on the gathering side, while I am a BIT more confident, I've never touched a favor. I'm clueless how they work. I still need to look up timing guides for ephemerals, and while I'm good on how to best scum RNG to farm discipline aethersands, I don't know the best dawnborne farming rotation. I've got scrip rotations down to a science, but I still don't know what a lot of things do. Like why would you use patience II over patience? What the hell does fish eyes do? Why do some corals need snagging while others don't?



All these questions, yet I qualify as a mentor. I guess? How early of a "pupil" do they expect me to guide? I AM giving advice to guildies just starting out, but I can only really guide people to 50. The 60 endgame is still foreign to me.


And to the above post, very true. What are the "new red scrip items" mentioned that will be coming in the patch? Nobody knows yet.

people consider that mentoring is only good up to lvl 50, passed this level nobody needs a mentor because everybody is a pro, yes I am frustrated about all this, indeed

You are right, many people, including me, are like you. I dont feel I am good enough, understand ready, to go and mentor, but it takes some humility to reach this conclusion and most dont have it because most DONT care enough of an unknown to understand if themselves dont require a mentor in the first place. So how many of newby are going to be mentored by those that know less then them?

THAT is my worry

I said in my earlier posts that I'm far from any kind of master, even still, I can do what I can. I think the mentoring is more aimed at pre lvl 30 and in some cases up to 50s.

The goal isn't be master, it's be a guiding hand. You don't need to be a Master for.that, just willing to help.

If you know early crafts, gathering, or battle basics, that's more than someone who's logged in for the 1st time knows and you can at least start them in the right direction.

This system is to promote teamwork and comradery between newer players and more experienced players so the divide between them can start being narrowed.

Callback, you're on the right track. And your answer is simple:

Mentor new players on what you can. Their questions are all within your current level of experience. As for YOUR questions, seek out a mentor. Not a literal one, but another player you trust who has the answers you seek.

It's literally a circle of life/experience.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

people consider that mentoring is only good up to lvl 50, passed this level nobody needs a mentor because everybody is a pro, yes I am frustrated about all this, indeed
You are right, many people, including me, are like you. I dont feel I am good enough, understand ready, to go and mentor, but it takes some humility to reach this conclusion and most dont have it because most DONT care enough of an unknown to understand if themselves dont require a mentor in the first place. So how many of newby are going to be mentored by those that know less then them?
THAT is my worry

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Nobody said that mentoring is only good up to 50, it can also be used post 50, alone not with this system.
New players lay contact with veterans, for the help at the start, to get to know the game. A newbie isn't going to ask an in-depth question from the start. He will need global advice on how to do stuff, be it from dps/heal/tank to gatherer/crafter. You will also be there to learn them and help them with the first dungeons.

Then actually some newbies will go there way and experience the game on there own, knowing there is someone who they can ask help too if needed. Some will maybe join the FC of the Mentor, some will enter and LS and ask advice on regular base.

I see the Mentor system more as guide then an teacher who will learn you the job from A-Z. To do that, the player will need to do research and trial and error. Thing is, along the way he laid contact with people, he know he can ask stuff too, as being just a new player entering Eorzea alone, and afraid to ask stuff, since he doesn't know if the person is willingly to help them.

Also, the Mentors can also learn stuff from each other, I for example would like to have a chat with fellow healers on my server to know how they handle stuff etc.

And yeah, you always will have rotten apples, that will be morons, that's the way it is. A newbie that got wrong information, will find out quickly, he will be told by people in the dungeon, then yeah, he may get yelled at, or have someone nicely explain him what's wrong. That's something we can't know. Where there is light, there is darkness.

Take this as an opportunity to reach out to those players, you should become a Mentor I think, because you are one, you said you like to help people, well this way people know that.