3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by Miakyo

Very fair and true point. I too play as tank so I can see the validation of your query and the bias of my suggestion. =P

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I do think they need to adjust the rating points somewhat though... I find it pretty ridiculous, that in a game where I have no control over how good my allies are (or rather, how utterly terrible they are, 7 deaths? Really?!), I get -25 rating for a loss and +25 for a win...

Dropping from ~900 back down to 500 because people can't follow basic instructions is a wonderful feeling... Focus X because they don't have the defense buff and I just Full Swing'd them! Only to have people focus the fucking tank? What the f*ck is this shit? I think I'll come back when the plebs have gotten bored of this... Can we put a PvP Rank lockout on Ranked or something? These people have obviously never PvPed in their life... Nothing excessive like R50, I'm sure something as low as R10 would sift out most of these utter morons, or at the very least force them to practice before they decide to queue at the same time as me and figure "They're on 4% HP, I better cast Regen!"...

Jesus Christ this is frustrating...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Focus X because they don't have the defense buff and I just Full Swing'd them! Only to have people focus the fucking tank? What the f*ck is this shit?

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Full Swing is one of those rare abilities which I have actually considered macro'ing, because it is utterly infuriating when you apply it and it goes unused. Using Full Swing is basically like handing the Dps a free kill, and yet so many of them randomly decide to swap targets and chase butterflies ... /FACEPALM

The Feast thus far (in my limited match experience) has proven to have similar, if not the exact same issues as The Fold. Matches begin and end with the "chase down the healer" or "blitz the caster". Its not fun after a few games, win or lose. If PvP is going to be even a minor focus of FFXIV we need more objective based match types with shorter durations and instant win conditions so game churn happens and we do not end up with the 30-45m frontline queue times. This game type while a tiny step up from the Fold because of the "coin" mechanics is still in the dumps because of actual combat mechanics and the insistence of the 1T/1M/1R/1H forced makeup.

Fun mode, these random dps tho : :

Lost 2 out of 15 so far, first lost a blm who just tried to spam bliz III tried my best but with such a dead weight vs decent opponents.

2nd game get called shit by a noname nin lol, had a pld that didn't stun or cover and the whole party just let the smn freecast >.> funniest part of the match smn is on 5% HP and nin switch's targets onto the drg.......

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Originally Posted by Februs

Full Swing is one of those rare abilities which I have actually considered macro'ing, because it is utterly infuriating when you apply it and it goes unused. Using Full Swing is basically like handing the Dps a free kill, and yet so many of them randomly decide to swap targets and chase butterflies ... /FACEPALM

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It's utterly infuriating... I've been getting groups like this back to back (for the mos part) for the past hour or so... Oh well, Fenrir Pup obtained, sanity restored, for now...

Loving the mode, but christ these randoms... Oh, and individual performance might play a factor, I'm getting rating points ranging from 22~26 at the moment, not sure why. Seems linked to my deaths/assists, not sure though.

Stop queueing solo if you're getting THIS irritated by it

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Stop queueing solo if you're getting THIS irritated by it

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"There are no seasonal rewards for party rankings."

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Stop queueing solo if you're getting THIS irritated by it

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The problem with this is that it'd only match you with other premades...and if people aren't interesting in doing premades because there's no seasonal rewards...welp.

Best parts; No GC restriction and a new game mode.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

"There are no seasonal rewards for party rankings."

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This is preseason

Nobody gets any rewards no matter what right now anyway

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Originally Posted by Slappah

This is preseason

Nobody gets any rewards no matter what right now anyway

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...741.1455060525

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Seasonal rankings for the Feast (4 on 4 - Solo) and the Feast (4 on 4 - Light Party) will soon be underway, and updated daily on the Lodestone.
At the end of the season, players will receive special seasonal rewards based on their final ranking.

* There are no seasonal rewards for party rankings.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...741.1455060525

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What's your point? You're just providing proof of what I said being true.

This is preseason, season 1 doesn't start until 3.25

This is 3.21

Preseason has no rewards

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Just my opinion. The PVP in XIV is not very fun. Chase the healer gets pretty old after a while. It's either that or get mobbed by 15 people. Oh well, didn't expect much to begin with.

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8v8 is horrible for healer but 4v4 is fun. AST is really bulky by spamming noct aspected benefic.

I'm kinda disappointed since I got the bronze rank. It's like +25 points for a win and - 25 for a lose while one have to get +500 points to have A CHANCE to get to the next rank. I mean, Whooat?

This doesn't give me any willing to tryhard. My feelings about it are ; Much luck, much frustration, much League of Legends. <- Pure Hell.

Wells, back to WoW.

Yawn . . . Pretty disappointed so far. Just like Wolves Den as far as being a punching bag if you're a healer or caster.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Yawn . . . Pretty disappointed so far. Just like Wolves Den as far as being a punching bag if you're a healer or caster.

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Whats the matter fam? You don't like Wolves Den w/boxes?

It's good enough imo. Not too long and LB not as fast growing as in frontline, which is good; glad it's not a LB fiesta. I've only tried 8 vs 8 though, dunno if I'll dive into the ranked stuff. It may sound kinda weird, but as much as I love PvP I'm not competitive by nature. I'll try and win any match I'm in sure, but I have no ambition of being best PvPer on server/center. Mainly due to RL and time and such. And seing how all matchups are more or less random, you must have a big chunk of luck as well as skill to reach the top. I can even see a mediocre(ish) player lucking it out by getting awesome teams again and again. It may have been better to base you score on performance (k/d/a damage heal etc).

For instance, if your a dps you have to deal at a certain amount of dps, based on rank, to get any points. Too low and you'll lose points.

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Originally Posted by Kaimishi

I'm kinda disappointed since I got the bronze rank. It's like +25 points for a win and - 25 for a lose while one have to get +500 points to have A CHANCE to get to the next rank. I mean, Whooat?

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This is a big problem that they're going to have to look at very keenly... I got bronze and was expecting to be matched with other bronzes. Got a new healer and we were destroyed pretty quick. This mode depends so heavily on working together to get it done. If one person under experienced and panics, kiss your rank points goodbye.
A bit more info from SE would be stellar too, cause the 3/5 promotion matches thing seems like its going to be hell in certain situations. We get that you love RNG SE, but awarding players that consistently get a good match sounds really disheartening....

I'm saying this and I know its pre-season but consider the match making to be priority more than anything, reward good and dedicated play not luck.

Greetings,

Now that the Feast pre-season has kicked off, we'd like to collect as much feedback as possible so that we can relay it back to the dev. team before the first season begins. In order for us to collect accurate feedback, we ask that please include which mode your comment or suggestion is referring to, if applicable.

• 8 on 8 - Matched Party
• 4 on 4 - Solo
• 4 on 4 - Light Party

Also, rest assured that we're collecting all the different comments we've been seeing so far and will be forwarding them all accordingly.

Thank you for assistance!

This applies to all modes, but I feel like the Heavy Medal debuff could afford to scale up a lot more severely than it currently does.

Even at the maximum of 9 stacks for 90% more damage taken, a tank holding all the medals is still a very unattractive target compared to the healers and DPS. As its current strength, the debuff is not fulfilling its function in incentivizing you to switch to targeting people with more medals. It's still more effective to fight with a 'normal' mindset and go for easy targets, because a team without a healer or missing a DPS is easy to control.

4 on 4 - Solo
4 on 4 - Light Party

Please do something about AST. I feel Nocturnal Sect should be disabled in 4 on 4 games, forcing AST to use Diurnal Sect would solve a lot of issues. If not that then just something should be done, AST currently feels like it outclasses the other healers.

I'm not happy with the reward system as it is now.

• Top Prize: Furnishing (One player per data center)
• Top Ten: Body Gear (Ten players per data center)
• Top Hundred: Head Gear (One hundred players per data center)
  

Since a data center averages around 11 different servers, this is extremely limited. I'm ok with prizes for the top players, and I think adding incentive for players to keep playing so they can reach a high goal is good, but this is in the realm of being completely unrealistic. I originally assumed the rewards would be based on your tier at the end of the season. Given how many points you lose for losing a match, your tier seems like a decent indicator of how well you're doing. With how the system is now, its likely that you won't see a single person on your server with any of the rewards.

To make it worse, I don't know how the ranking system actually works. Which one of these is ranked the highest? Someone with 100 games and a 100% win rate; someone with 1000 games and an 80% win rate; or someone with 5000 games and a 50% win rate? If the feast uses the same ranking system as frontlines, then its based purely off the number of wins, so its just a matter of which player decided to spend all day every day for a month or two grinding out matches. So in that case, Mr. 50% would be the winner even if its quite likely that Mr. 80% is the better player.

Or maybe he isn't and just got lucky. If no one else is in the queue, will diamond tier players be matched up against bronze tier? If that happens, win trading is already confirmed and this system was broken before it started. I play on a Japanese server where everyone is in the same timezone. We get 5 minute 72 man frontline queues at night, but it won't happen at all in the morning. So if I convinced 7 other players to help me, we could all queue up for german only matches in the morning and we'd have no interference with trying to boost my win rate. People would have to deliberately try to sabotage this to prevent it from happening, and that kind of burden should not be on the players.

A lot of players were upset that the reward system from PVP rankings was gutted and were encouraged to participate in the feast for new rewards, but with what we have now I think players will be demoralized before they even start participating. Theres more to PVP than just the rewards, but having those kind of goals and rewards is what keeps PVP active. I'm more likely to earn real money through something like a fighting game tournament than I am to obtain some digital item from the feast. I'm a fairly active participant in PVP so I'm worried that if I find this discouraging, what about the people who are more casual players than I am?

Thats why I think making the item rewards based off your league to be a reasonable change. It gives players something to work towards and it adds content for more than .001% of the player base. This also gets rid of the problem with arranged teams not receiving any rewards. After all, if only 1 person per data center can receive the top prize, how can you reward a team of 4? S-E's solution was apparently to give no reward at all. I think giving active players something tangible to work towards is more important than prestige for an extremely limited number of players.

Newer players who never PvP'd before are allowed to enter the 4v4 rated mode, giving the team a big disadvantage. I'd say the ranking system would help with this but it no longer matters anymore... Anyway to deal with this?

I am not calling anyone out but a few comments in this thread make me wonder. I have seen some pretty verbal abusive players in a few matches. The comments have been reflected in this thread in a better wording, but still derogatory.

So it is day 1. You are playing with randoms who have probably never done any pvp. Calling them names and belittling them is not going to help. You can see what server they are from. If they are from yours have a polite discussion with them. If they are not move and take your lumps.

Just personal experience I had a match where the other healer I know had at least 1k in frontlines and hand 4 hands of mercy. We literally stomped the other team in 4 minutes. Would have helped to belittle the people on that team if you were one? I am sure the Hands will move up from that rank and stop curb stomping brand new players.

The first tier of any semi competitive game is always the worst for quality and toxicity. Try not to be that person. Discussion for quality of player is when you have moved up a rank or two. If then they are complete (expletive) then SE will have to work on matchmaking.

User Invalid_Name made a great post.

Pretty much sums up my feelings towards it.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Thank you for assistance!

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From what I understand 4v4 group will not be ranked. Although I understand some of the rational behind this... It\\'s killed a lot of insentive for people to take this seriously. I can\\'t imagine ranks being anything short of rng while you have no control who you party up with. Say someone decides to go afk or throw a match, now my rank would become trashed as a result. How is this anymore fair then a good group of premades?

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

Now that the Feast pre-season has kicked off, we'd like to collect as much feedback as possible so that we can relay it back to the dev. team before the first season begins. In order for us to collect accurate feedback, we ask that please include which mode your comment or suggestion is referring to, if applicable.

• 4 on 4 - Light Party

!

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I have to ask why there are no Seasonal Rewards for Ranked Teams? The Feast is a very team-heavy based play mode, but players who form a team with their buddies are not rewarded for playing together, why is this? Can this be changed before rewards go out?

The rewards are going to have to be way more available than 1/10/100 per data center to gain any interest from me.

Regarding 4v4 solo queue, I'm only 20 matches in, 10/10 lose/win and I really don't want to continue. Much like wolves' den, the feast feels like you either completely crush the other team, or you get completely crushed. It's the nature of the small 4v4 teams though; everyone has to carry their weight, and if just one person doesn't, your team's going to lose. That's not a fun risk in a solo queue.

I much prefer frontlines. The 24-man job variety/skill/following orders/etc can't be accounted for like the 4v4 pros/counters to perfect setups that will develop. That randomness keeps pvp fun and interesting for me. I hope frontlines doesn't die if people have to devote unreasonable amounts of pvp time just to stay on top of their Feast tier.

Like Renault mentioned....

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Originally Posted by Renault

We are talking old school, Vanilla WoW, "Hey Jimmy can you log into my account and grind some PVP because I need to sleep", kind of playtime.

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That works for some people, but I'm not one of them.

There's some feedback for you. :)

All modes:

AST nocturnal sect is too overpowered, it needs to be nerfed to either not be instant cast or the shield be made so weak that any attack will break through it, even weak moves like shield lob or piercing talon.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

All modes:

AST nocturnal sect is too overpowered, it needs to be nerfed to either not be instant cast or the shield be made so weak that any attack will break through it, even weak moves like shield lob or piercing talon.

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....lol...

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Originally Posted by Slappah

What's your point? You're just providing proof of what I said being true.

This is preseason, season 1 doesn't start until 3.25

This is 3.21

Preseason has no rewards

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I think their point is that the highest ranked solo players get the goodies. Ranking has already started so unless everyone is reset to zero at the season start people are already climbing the ranks. I'm assuming that's the line of thought & going by how the SE information reads I can understand where they're coming from. It's probably yet another SE translation error in how awards will be given but if it's based on rank, rather than wins/points, then some players are already way ahead.

once again the moral do not need you to have the pieces 205 or 180 does not change anything we are all the same I still have not figured out if the SE does not pretend to understand the real players pvp , or does not understand anything of pvp

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Originally Posted by Myon88

This applies to all modes, but I feel like the Heavy Medal debuff could afford to scale up a lot more severely than it currently does.

Even at the maximum of 9 stacks for 90% more damage taken, a tank holding all the medals is still a very unattractive target compared to the healers and DPS. As its current strength, the debuff is not fulfilling its function in incentivizing you to switch to targeting people with more medals. It's still more effective to fight with a 'normal' mindset and go for easy targets, because a team without a healer or missing a DPS is easy to control.

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actually the debuff is quite strong. I held 9 in one match as a tank, a drg dragon dived towards me and it took about 1/3 of my hp and for a tank that's a lot from one move but the healer was still able to keep me up in tandem with me using defensive cooldowns properly because the other dps was trying to kill the healer to prevent me from being healed. I think the biggest issue is that regardless of whether or not healers have medals they ALWAYS provide the greatest threat by keeping their party alive and that is always an issue.

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Originally Posted by Kaimishi

I'm kinda disappointed since I got the bronze rank. It's like +25 points for a win and - 25 for a lose while one have to get +500 points to have A CHANCE to get to the next rank. I mean, Whooat?

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Oh you're lucky... I've been getting +22 for wins and -26 for losing for a while now... It's kind of a big "F*ck you!" when solo ranked is essentially a 50/50 shot at winning...

Really should be something like +30 for a win and -15 for a loss, though the exact number seems to vary based on individual performance (which is still tied to your team, you'll get no assists if your DPS are terribad, you'll die if your healer seemingly thinks they only have one spell). I honestly am not sure why people with seemingly no skill in PvP are able to queue up for ranked though... Sure, make it accessible, but why on earth queue someone who is going to lose rating for a loss with someone who is going to say "Hi, it's my first time!"; That's what the practice mode is for, what sense is their in giving us people who don't even know what PvP skills are in ranked? That is just out right frustrating and turned an otherwise enjoyable evening (since I really was enjoying Feast) south pretty fast...

I don't PVP anymore, but from time to time I am interested in the discussion. To me it sounds like the devs only listened to two points of PVP feedback: "Queue times are too long!" & "People keep wintrading!" Seriously, why are those the only things they heard? I might be simplifying this way too much. If there's evidence they've listened to other feedback, that would be very nice to see.

Also, that's not even mentioning that they can't even get the most basic of basics of a competitive PVP system right. It's strange, but it's not completely surprising to me because I see FFXIV as a PVE game, no offense. However, stuff like rating gained/lost from matches, the rank structure, and the reward structure should be common sense design regardless if you play PVE or PVP, but it seems totally screwed up. I can't imagine them ever designing PVE with these messed up systems, so why are they seemingly confused about what to do for PVP?

I know im just repeating what was already been said, but its the most important part

* No reward for Team 4v4 ranking is unacceptable. Solo queue is too random to take competitively. Please reconsider!
* The rewards are way too few. I understand that they should be only for the best of the best, but 100 players per data center? really? That means it could be possible that some servers might not even get to see those items at all.
I think the reward should be based on percentage instead of a fixed number. say for example:
The top 1% of the data center get the furniture
The top 3-5% of the data center get the Chest Piece
The top 5-10% of the data center get the head piece

Numbers can be changed ofc, this is just an example. This way there is a better chance for people to get the rewards, WHICH will increase the interest and lust for them.

simple put, the reward system right now is unappealing, and thats a shame because the Feast is one of the greatest additions to this game in a long time

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Originally Posted by Teiren

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Queue times were a huge issue, I really enjoy the lower queue times now, but I suspect it will become impossibly long as interest decreases. They don't have enough incentives or a good enough system to make FFXIV PvP self sustaining, and once people start leaving it feeds itself with poor queue times causing more people to leave. Not to mention when score based matches start happening, the queue times would skyrocket.

SE does need to work on Tourney structures. Just look at how LoV or TT tornies are handled. The best LoV player in the world wouldn't be able to win a LoV tourny due to how the points are handled, and don't get me started on TT.

So it's no surprise they can't get PvP rankings right.

4 on 4 - Light Party
I'm going to guess the lack of rewards for ranked parties is due to the prevalence of win trading in other competitive aspects of the game thus far. One popular method I've seen to win trade in XIV has been to queue up on a non prominent language, such as GE or FR on EN servers, at odd times, to ensure you go against who you plan to go against. My question then, is what is the point of the language options now that there are very clear EN|FR/GE|JP servers? Why not remove the language options and cut down on the possibility of win trading, perhaps even only allow ranked matches to occur during certain times, IE from about 3PMPST to 1AMPST? The second recommendation may be a bit extreme, but the first not so much, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

4 on 4 - Light Party
I'm going to guess the lack of rewards for ranked parties is due to the prevalence of win trading in other competitive aspects of the game thus far. One popular method I've seen to win trade in XIV has been to queue up on a non prominent language, such as GE or FR on EN servers, at odd times, to ensure you go against who you plan to go against. My question then, is what is the point of the language options now that there are very clear EN|FR/GE|JP servers? Why not remove the language options and cut down on the possibility of win trading

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This. If you're queuing 4v4 Light Party then the language options are irrelevant; you aren't there to talk to the opponents anyway. Let French people fight Japanese people and so on. All that language restrictions for opponents do is penalise anyone with an unusual setting as it delays their queue time and allows win trading via a known exploit in the matching. It's silly. Other possibilities to reduce win trading would be logic to avoid the same people being matched up frequently, score/rank resets for anyone found to be doing it and/or diminishing returns from fighting the same people repeatedly (so people who play late at night can still progress, just slowly). We don't want anyone win trading, but we want to be able to play and compete.

Blocking 4v4 premades from rewards entirely sucks - day one of the new patch and my 4v4 couldn't get into a single match on Gaia. Nobody else even wanted to bother queueing late at night when the solo queue is where you progress.

I can't play with my buddies in FL because of GC restrictions. I can't play with them in WD because it never pops on Gaia at the time we play. I finally get a chance to introduce them to the gameplay mode I like, only to find that I still can't because 8v8 is for pairs only, 4v4 party gets no rewards (so people don't want to queue it) and 1v1 goes back to the same problem they have learning PVP alone on the enemy side via FL. Argh.

My friends are shy. They're casuals. They're not fluent linguists. They want to play and compete, and work up the ranks, but forcing them to do so and learn the ropes under very strict conditions (and in a language they struggle with) really, really kills PVP for them as casual players. And killing PVP for casuals kills it for people like me too because the queues end up so long I can never get in. Please, please be friendlier to these casual PVPers who are just starting out. Let them play with friends, in a way where they get encouraged and rewarded for trying their best and discover the fun of real teamwork.

Edit: It would actually be kinda fun to have an 'undersized party' mode for The Feast where you can join to train with friends too nervous to jump straight in with the chaos of 8v8 or the stress of rankings. Obviously no rewards would be given, but the level 50 dummies in WD Pier can only help so much. Or if it was out in the open world it would give us something productive to do while waiting for the wretched 4v4 queue to pop.