Crafters have no right to get their own Chocobos

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Originally Posted by Norwan

It is fine that you don't understand what are we fighting for. We can tell from your word as you are NOT a crafter.

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Oh really?

Besides, the two people I see arguing that this is a wrong decision both have battle classes at rank 50, I have yet to see one of these 'crafters' you mention that has no battle class levelled up.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Well rage all you like but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, each leve reset gave everyone 8 crafting leves and 8 battle leves. There was no excuse not to do a battle leve, as it would reward the player with more Gil to spend on crafting items and gain shards to craft with, along with materials dropped by enemies you defeated during the leve.

Plus in the case of many crafting classes, you HAVE to do a battle class anyway to get sinew, skin, fur, fangs and countless other things unless you rely entirely on selling gear to earn the Gil to buy shards and materials, which could take forever unless you try to undercut everything on the market.

I'm a crafter too, I spend most of my time crafting, but I don't ignore my battle class, because not having a battle class also means you'll only be able to experience like, 10% of the games content, you won't see behests, battle leves, dungeons, raids, or the upcoming beastman strongholds, ifrit battle or caravan escorts. Why pay for a game when you're only seeing such a small amount of it's contents?

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i'm sorry if you are a crafter chances are very good you are a gatherer also. that means 8 crafting leves 8 gathering leves. oh yeah i guess they do have a reason if they didn't do battle leves. did you forget battlecraft and fieldcraft are part of the same 8 leves?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'm sorry if you are a crafter chances are very good you are a gatherer also. that means 8 crafting leves 8 gathering leves. oh yeah i guess they do have a reason if they didn't do battle leves. did you forget battlecraft and fieldcraft are part of the same 8 leves?

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Actually YOU have a legitimate point there that the other two failed to mention. I'd forgotten about that.

Let's point one little thing out here though.

In patch 1.19 you're getting crafting recipe revisions for free, you're getting changes to the high quality system for free, you're getting 100 new inventory slots and 50 inventory slots for retainers for free, in fact, you're getting complete use of this entire game FOR FREE, and now that the changes to the crafting system you wanted so badly are in 1.19, which I'd like to mention is for free, you have the nerve to demand they delay the patch so that they can make changes to grand companies, which are specifically catered to battle classes, just so you can get the chocobos that're being added in the patch for free, just because you can't be bothered to spend a few hours of your free play time to level up a battle class?

Hang your head in shame. Shame on you!

The way i see it, if I need to level a craft to repair my own weapon you can level a battle class to join a GC

I am crafter and i thank'd god that this happens, trying to make DoL/DoH equal with fighting class is one of the game's huge flaws.. and they have the same equal opportunity for public transport, there is no restriction in public chocobo no? you want faster one, you better the hell work for it.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Oh really?

Besides, the two people I see arguing that this is a wrong decision both have battle classes at rank 50, I have yet to see one of these 'crafters' you mention that has no battle class levelled up.

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You're wrong again, I level my battle class to be able to farm hide for leatherwork. As a crafter, one should take crafting more seriously than battle. May I ask, what's wrong with that? Battle class enjoy killing mobs as we enjoy crafting items. They are all the same, just to kill times. Why makes most of all contents to be battle oriented? I'm just standing here and fighting for my right, and what makes it so wrong to you?

Okay, I hate to have to say this, but games are entertainment. "You are too lazy to sludge through some part of the game you don't find entertaining to get to the part you enjoy" does not strike me as sound.

I don't think it matters why a person wouldn't want to pick up a sword or wand. If they don't like or want to that should be good enough. For your movie analogy, you have content of finite length and of a single type. The content of Final Fantasy XIV is neither finite in length nor of a single type. As long as a person is enjoying their time in Eorzea, they have sufficient reason to pay to play. Forcing people to pay money and engage in activity they loathe to access functions that others take for granted could convince them to quit, though, I imagine.

For the most part arguments to disallow non combat classes the ability to own a chocobo revolve around it being easy to level up a battle class. If this restriction is so trivial, why require it? If you can't think of a reason why a non combat should be disallowed a personal chocobo, why rain on the idea?

Are we joking here?

Anyone r10 can pay to ride a chocobo. ANYONE. Rental is the only consistent staple of FF series that people should be expecting, and SE has already handed it to everyone on a silver platter, regardless of their job. This ability to rent a chocobo is what previous titles have established as the "standard" expectation.

Company issue? Breeding? These are icing on the cake, shiny examples of how someone can keep one, rather than rent. But it will cost you to get the extra feature. if you don't want to invest the time, then its not that important to you, and you can just rent chocobos instead.

C'mon, people.

oh well, doesn't change my plans anyway, I won't be going back to Battlecraft until 1.19 anyway, as I'm min/maxed entirely for fishing and alchemy and not about to respec almost 50 levels worth of stats

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Originally Posted by Norwan

You're wrong again, I level my battle class to be able to farm hide for leatherwork.

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You just stepped on your own feet. You're saying there's no legitimate reason for a crafter to level a battle class and now you're saying there IS a legitimate reason. You're fighting for a right when you already HAVE that right. YOU can already get a chocobo with your battle class, plus seriously when was the last time you played an MMORPG where battle wasn't involved? WHEN was the last time you played a Final Fantasy game where battle wasn't involved?

Plus as chardrizard said, if you want your own personal chocobo, you have to earn it.

STOP spouting nonsesence and deal with it already! Get off your soap-box and accept that you may just have to learn to fight so that a grand company, which is designed for battle, will give you one of their chocobos.

If it REALLY bugs you so badly then bare in mind that craftable chocobo gear will be added into the game in one of the upcoming patches, as will chocobo breeding, so it's not that you'll NEVER be able to get a personal chocobo if you're only a crafter, it's just that implimenting all that additional system is going to take time, and at the moment SE are just trying to get the game running at full speed, they don't need whiners complaining just because their freebie is going to take slightly longer to get because they didn't bother battling for a whole years worth of release.

The glaringly obvious part about this is that the game has been consistently billed as "Play as you like." We were told specifically that if we wanted to be full time gatherers or crafters, we could. And by and large the gameplay compliments this. Even to do the storylines you get a companion and non-combat options like Parley to progress through the game. It is silly to not allow dedicated crafters and gatherers options to get chocobos without having to level a fighting job. It is contradictory to the spirit of the game.

It doesn't matter if it's easy to level a combat job or not. You know what else is easy? Walking instead of using a chocobo. But everyone complained about not being able to use chocobos, so those telling crafters to STFU and level a combat job, kindly take your own advice and let people voice their understandable grievances with this oversight.

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Originally Posted by Norwan

You're wrong again, I level my battle class to be able to farm hide for leatherwork. As a crafter, one should take crafting more seriously than battle. May I ask, what's wrong with that? Battle class enjoy killing mobs as we enjoy crafting items. They are all the same, just to kill times. Why makes most of all contents to be battle oriented? I'm just standing here and fighting for my right, and what makes it so wrong to you?

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So you'll level a battle craft to 50 to farm leathers but you have a problem doing it to 25 for a chocobo?

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Originally Posted by Aveline

The glaringly obvious part about this is that the game has been consistently billed as "Play as you like." We were told specifically that if we wanted to be full time gatherers or crafters, we could. And by and large the gameplay compliments this. Even to do the storylines you get a companion and non-combat options like Parley to progress through the game. It is silly to not allow dedicated crafters and gatherers options to get chocobos without having to level a fighting job. It is contradictory to the spirit of the game.

It doesn't matter if it's easy to level a combat job or not. You know what else is easy? Walking instead of using a chocobo. But everyone complained about not being able to use chocobos, so those telling crafters to STFU and level a combat job, kindly take your own advice and let people voice their understandable grievances with this oversight.

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If you want to be full time gatherers or crafters you can be, no one's taking that away from you. But let me ask you this, say I wanted to 'play as I want' and I wanted to just be a Blacksmith and nothing else, could I get Blacksmith all the way to rank 50? No I couldn't, I'd HAVE to learn MINING to gather ore, in some cases I'd HAVE to learn Goldsmith or Armorsmith to make brass, I'd HAVE to find some form of income to buy materials I couldn't gather, I'd HAVE to find some way to get hold of crystals and shards. So can I play as I want if I just want to be a Blacksmith? No I can't.

So if you want your own chocobo, you're going to HAVE to learn a battle class.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

You're saying there's no legitimate reason for a crafter to level a battle class and now you're saying there IS a legitimate reason.

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Only leatherwork require battle class. There are many people out there just do Fishing & Alchemy, Mining & Smithing. Why they can't get their own chocobo. They pay as much as you do, and they may spend more time than you to level their characters. Can you explain why they can't get their own chocobo?

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Originally Posted by Norwan

Only leatherwork require battle class. There are many people out there just do Fishing & Alchemy, Mining & Smithing. Why they can't get their own chocobo. They pay as much as you do, and they may spend more time than you to level their characters. Can you explain why they can't get their own chocobo?

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Ok, first, can you explain to me why I can't repair my own gear to 100% without levelling a craft?

Oh wait no you can't.

Life sucks doesn't it?

A player who levels only DoW/M can't repair their own gear, can't make their own gear and try for HQs, and can't participate in materia-craft.

A player who levels only DoH/L can't participate in instanced raids and other battle content and can't get a personal chocobo.

A player who does both can partake in everything this game has to offer.

This is about player choice and related consequences, not discrimination.

As for the promises of the initial release of the game, people need to learn to let go after a while. This game is not following Tanaka's vision anymore, but Yoshida's vision. It's not even about which was or would have been better. It simply is what it is. First thing Yoshi P did when he was put in charge of the game is confirm with the players that they were up for drastic changes.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Ok, first, can you explain to me why I can't repair my own gear to 100% without levelling a craft?

Oh wait no you can't.

Life sucks doesn't it?

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but you do pay 2000 gil and get your gear fixed. Pure crafters and gatherers will never get their own chocobo.

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Originally Posted by Norwan

but you do pay 2000 gil and get your gear fixed. Pure crafters and gatherers will never get their own chocobo.

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I pay 2000 gil and get my gear fixed to 75%

You pay 800 gil and get a chocobo to ride that's slightly slower than a personal one.

And NEVER get their own chocobo??? [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] It's already been said COUNTLESS TIMES that chocobo breeding will be implimented later on!

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I pay 2000 gil and get my gear fixed to 75%

You pay 800 gil and get a chocobo to ride that's slightly slower than a personal one.

And NEVER get their own chocobo??? [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] It's already been said COUNTLESS TIMES that chocobo breeding will be implimented later on!

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Why 75%, there are many crafters on street want to contribute and fix your gear. Don't tell me that you really go to NPC fix thing. You see, we crafters are willing to help, and this is what we get for return.

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Originally Posted by Norwan

Why 75%, there are many crafters on street want to contribute and fix your gear. Don't tell me that you really go to NPC fix thing. You see, we crafters are willing to help, and this is what we get for return.

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Right... to save me smashing my head against a wall trying to grasp how you aren't able to grasp a simple premise...

Grand Companies are designed specifically for battle, the gear they give from marks are all designed for battle, the potions they give are designed for battle, they ARE a battle company, therefore, BATTLE classes join them, you can't have a battalion of Miners lining the ranks throwing stones at the enemy now can you? Chocobos are apparently rare in this game so they're only given to those deemed worthy of having one. That means people defending the country, risking their lives, take top priority. Some guy sitting on his ass making shoes so he can sell them for a lot of money has not earned the right to have a chocobo, because he is not risking his life in an attempt to save his country. Therefore he has to rent one, which costs him money, just as the battle class has to pay a crafter to repair his gear.

Every single change since yoshi took over has been free, you haven't had to pay a penny for it, and you're complaining just because amidst the huge pile of stuff you wanted that you are getting, there's just one little thing you aren't getting.

This is something people call UNGRATEFULL, and is frowned upon in todays society.

So stop being a spoiled little brat and deal with it, I have to deal with buying gear higher than my crafting rank can make, you can deal with not getting a chocobo untill chocobo breeding is implimented in a later patch.

If you are unable to deal with this, then you seriously need to go visit a psychiatrist or something because there's something seriously screwed up in your head.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

If you want to be full time gatherers or crafters you can be, no one's taking that away from you. But let me ask you this, say I wanted to 'play as I want' and I wanted to just be a Blacksmith and nothing else, could I get Blacksmith all the way to rank 50? No I couldn't, I'd HAVE to learn MINING to gather ore, in some cases I'd HAVE to learn Goldsmith or Armorsmith to make brass, I'd HAVE to find some form of income to buy materials I couldn't gather, I'd HAVE to find some way to get hold of crystals and shards. So can I play as I want if I just want to be a Blacksmith? No I can't.

So if you want your own chocobo, you're going to HAVE to learn a battle class.

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These problems are overcome by trading with other players, doing leves, or slinking around the market wards. A personal chocobo can't be traded or sold.

These arguments still boil down to "I can't think of a reason why you shouldn't be allowed to have a chocobo as a non combat class, but you can't so suck it up."

Additionally the tone taken is one of aggressive disdain. There's little effort being made to understand the point being argued or to contribute to a discussion in a positive manner, though I think there were a couple of folks who gave it an honest shot.

The answer to the question "Why can't non battle classes get personal chocobos?" can't be "Because you can't."

Alright alright, I don't think a topic about chocobos should be getting so heated.

Nothing good is going to come out of this, kweh~

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Alright alright, I don't think a topic about chocobos should be getting so heated.

Nothing good is going to come out of this, kweh~

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Eh, you're right. It just gets on my nerves when people are all "waaaah i can't get want i want, i demand this, i demand that waaaah".

I want to be able to fly around La Noscea on the back of a giant paper airplane dropping water bombs on marmots but I'm not raging on a thread demanding the patch be delayed and altered just so I can do that.

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Originally Posted by Valarian

The answer to the question "Why can't non battle classes get personal chocobos?" can't be "Because you can't."

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The answer is that Grand Companies are battle content. Grand Company issued chocobos are therefore, by default, battle content. Just like you can't buy gear sold by the GCs in exchange for seals, you can't but a GC issued chocobo in exchange for seals if you are exclusively a DoH/L.

Did crafters complain about not being able to participate in the instanced raids when they were released? No.

If you are looking for a simple answer, that is it.

Also here's an easy analogy of the situation:

I want to be a Musketeer, the guild is already in the game, the gun models are already in the game, but I can't be one because Musketeer hasn't been added yet, so I have to wait untill it is.

Crafters want a personal chocobo, chocobos will be in 1.19, but they can't get one yet without a battle class because chocobo breeder hasn't been added yet, so they have to wait untill it is.

That sounds pretty reasonable, yes?

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The answer is that Grand Companies are battle content. Grand Company issued chocobos are therefore, by default, battle content. Just like you can't buy gear sold by the GCs in exchange for seals, you cannot but a GC issued chocobo in exchange for seals if you are exclusively a DoH/L.

Did crafters complain about not being able to participate in the instanced raids when they were released? No.

If you are looking for a simple answer, that is it.

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That's not really the answer to the question I'm asking (Or meant to ask, anyway). I have no idea why people feel the need to fire back at this notion with so much vigor, either.

I'm not saying "Give me a chocobo nowz! RAWR". Nor am I saying "I want a grand company chocobo!". I'm saying that a means to earn a chocobo without having to level a battle class should be added. Do you agree Y/N? If you don't, I want to hear some plausible rationale why not.

I've never said that I didn't like the patch I was getting, nor have I said anything negative about the dev team. Unless development is going to stop at this point, though, now is the time to put in my two cents on this topic, even if people are going to try to flame me for it. There's one thread about it that I can see. the universe will probably permit that.

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Originally Posted by Valarian

That's not really the answer to the question I'm asking (Or meant to ask, anyway). I have no idea why people feel the need to fire back at this notion with so much vigor, either.

I'm not saying "Give me a chocobo nowz! RAWR". Nor am I saying "I want a grand company chocobo!". I'm saying that a means to earn a chocobo without having to level a battle class should be added. Do you agree Y/N? If you don't, I want to hear some plausible rationale why not.

I've never said that I didn't like the patch I was getting, nor have I said anything negative about the dev team. Unless development is going to stop at this point, though, now is the time to put in my two cents on this topic, even if people are going to try to flame me for it. There's one thread about it that I can see. the universe will probably permit that.

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Yes it is reasonable.

Being able to breed your own personal chocobo is being implimented in a later patch as the dev team have already said.

Problem solved.

Now I'm going to bed, happy in the knowledge that the problem has indeed been solved.

Confusion: What happens when you find out your primary opponents in an argument agreed with you all along.

If anyone could show me where this post is on chocobo breeding, it'd be helpful. I can't seem to find it on my own.

Comparing Chocobos to instanced raids is not really appropriate.

Chocobo is a Final Fantasy staple. It's basic content. That's why the price is so low and it's so easy to get. It's not like crafters need an r50 DoW job, thank goodness. But on the other hand, why should they have to level a battle class to get basic content?

My gather friend will get his chocobo, he's very happy for that. It only takes a few leve resets. The principle of it still annoys him and he's still concerned that he will have to continue to level a class he does not enjoy in order to play basic content.

I hope this is not the case.

lol why would crafters need a chocobo anyways? derp.

Headstrong adventurers that headhunt raptors all day to bring you back some items have more use for chocobos.

To add to this, crafters are considerably specialized in more local work, not having to bear the wilds to get what they need. their profession is their only work. To join a grand company is enlisting into a military. Put a weapon in your hand, not a hammer.

It makes all the sense to me. If you want a chocobo, rank a battle class to 25, should only take a few hours.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

lol why would crafters need a chocobo anyways? derp.

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I'm sure you really enjoy turning in local leves on foot.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Also here's an easy analogy of the situation:

I want to be a Musketeer, the guild is already in the game, the gun models are already in the game, but I can't be one because Musketeer hasn't been added yet, so I have to wait untill it is.

Crafters want a personal chocobo, chocobos will be in 1.19, but they can't get one yet without a battle class because chocobo breeder hasn't been added yet, so they have to wait untill it is.

That sounds pretty reasonable, yes?

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Yes, everyone get on their chocobo running around, and crafters and gatherers they also RUNNING around which makes everyone very happy about it. IT IS PRETTY REASONABLE.

DoH/L still have access to chocobos via rentals. The Grand Company issue chocobos are DoW/M only because Grand Companies are DoW/M access only. It really is as simple as that.

SE adding incentive for players to try every aspect of the game is not a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

lol why would crafters need a chocobo anyways? derp.

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Is that sarcasm, or are you really at a knowledge level that you need it explained?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I'm sure you really enjoy turning in local leves on foot.

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I'm pretty sure it makes much sense to join a military with a weaving needle. That's why rental chocobos are available. derp x2

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

DoH/L still have access to chocobos via rentals. The Grand Company issue chocobos are DoW/M only because Grand Companies are DoW/M access only. It really is as simple as that.

SE adding incentive for players to try every aspect of the game is not a bad thing.

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I agree with your last line in particular. The problem with that idea is, everyone says that. But it only applies untill it inconveniences them. Then its a different situation. Look at all the threads about the new ideas for repears. Thats once more thing thats going to downgrade DoH value in the game.

Personally I consider the DoL/H secondary classes to me and my play personally, but that does not mean that I have to be treaded like a secondclass citizen if they are my main focus. The more I read the forums, the more it appears the general populations has it in for the DoH/L. I personally think its a little sad that they can't be independent or a players main focus.

Rental chocobos are not the equal of personal chocobos. They originate from only 3 points on the map. Traveling from arbitrary point to another arbitrary point is a huge step up, even if we discount that rental chocobos cost money and aren't as fast.

Grand Companies seem to hand out crafting manuals in exchange for their precious seals. This puts some significant tarnish on their pure combat shine.

Making people do things in a game that they don't want to do is a bad thing. It makes people quit. Misery can be had for free. Forcing battle classes to rank a craft to fix their gear was bad. Forcing a crafter to fight so that they can access transit is also bad.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I agree with your last line in particular. The problem with that idea is, everyone says that. But it only applies untill it inconveniences them. Then its a different situation. Look at all the threads about the new ideas for repears. Thats once more thing thats going to downgrade DoH value in the game.

Personally I consider the DoL/H secondary classes to me and my play personally, but that does not mean that I have to be treaded like a secondclass citizen if they are my main focus. The more I read the forums, the more it appears the general populations has it in for the DoH/L. I personally think its a little sad that they can't be independent or a players main focus.

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DoH/L classes are being treated as secondary/support classes. That much is being made very clear. I can understand the disappointment a player may have if they were playing this game based on the initial promise that FFXIV would be a game where players could main DoH/L. The fact remains, however, that Tanaka's vision is not shared by Yoshi-P.

That being said, continuing down this line of discussion derails the topic, making it one of Tanaka's FFXIV vs Yoshi-P's FFXIV - a discussion that will reach no productive outcome.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I'm pretty sure it makes much sense to join a military with a weaving needle. That's why rental chocobos are available. derp x2

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I am pretty sure those rows of citiy militia would look horrible running around naked and without weapons. You are cappable of understanding that those items have to be crafted by someone. derp

I could sit here and post a point for this side of the debate for each point you make. The fact of the matter is though, folks like yourself will never even consider being open minded about looking at it openmindedly. derp

How does it hurt you? derp

Whats the downside (derp) for you (derp), that you resist the concept as a whole (derp)

Derp, can you use it like the word smurf?