Final Fantasy XIV 1.23b - Would you Play it if Available?

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Originally Posted by Raikki

The server has a set rate that controls how often it processes events. In open world zones, this seems to be around 3-4 times per second, while in coil and primals it's much faster (seems to be doubled, but further testing would be needed to pin down both these numbers). Even game servers for twitchy FPS games work this way, although some have very high rates (high-end Counter-Strike servers often processed at 100Hz). High rates are going to greatly increase server load and network congestion in relation to how many entities there are, which is why they're reserved for content where response time is more important (and there are fewer entities).

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Perhaps you might want to add examples of such games then. Because the typically online game updates a lot faster, not with a 300ms delay. In fact for a fps shooter its absolutely imperative that it updates constantly.

You see thats what typically all games do: they update based on the data you send to the server, and your game updates based on the data that gets send by the server to you. a 300ms delay would effectively increase your ping by 300ms, wish would make fps games unplayable.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Even game servers for twitchy FPS games work this way, although some have very high rates

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That's the first time ever I hear someone make a correlation between FPS and position updates. LOL

I think I'll leave it at that then. Considering that last comments its obvious you dont know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I tried to shed some light because you clearly don't understand what's going on and how the game works. Whether you choose to absorb new knowledge or ignore it is up to you.

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Irony.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Blah blah blah

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https://developer.valvesoftware.com/...yer_Networking

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The problem was related to "tickrate," or how many times the game updates the positions of bullets, counts damage, etc. Battlefield 4 uses a tickrate of 10Hz, or 10 times per second. Games like Call of Duty usually use 30Hz, and some like Counter-Strike go as high as 60Hz.

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Source: http://kotaku.com/battlefield-4-is-f...xed-1577452991

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Q2: You have said that in FFXIV: ARR, the character's position is checked by the server once every 0.3 seconds. However there are times where the character receives AoE damage even though the character on the screen is outside of the range. Seems like the information on character's position is not up to date. Is there any plan to make an adjustment to this?

A2: If we apply faster response times in all areas, the load on the servers will be too much. Therefore, while it will only be for certain areas (for example high-level content and the Wolves' Den), you will be able to notice the faster response times. Please stay tuned!

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Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1587156

So like I said, open world tickrate for ARR is between 3 and 4 times per second, while in raids it's much higher. And like I said, even FPS games work like this, but at higher refresh rates, not "constantly". Interpolation is heavily used in online gaming.

To reiterate, you associated the "can't cancel cast at the end of the bar" time with a delay in processing your positional updates. My tests (which you are welcome to attempt to replicate) revealed that server-side spells have a lower cast time than what we see in-game, meaning the extra cast time in-game is unusable for canceling spell casts under any circumstance and is thus not an appropriate indication of positional delay. If you had been interested in a more productive discussion I would have been happy to measure other packet timings for you on request but this is clearly going nowhere.

I'm done responding on this subject, this is just getting silly at this point.

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I wrote up a quick explanation for the "running while casting" interrupt "delay" to help demonstrate what's happening for anyone that's interested:

When you send a casting command to the server, the soonest it will be processed is on the next update tick after the packet arrives (which as has been said is 300ms in the open world). The soonest it can be interrupted due to movement is on the following server tick, because the movement-based interrupt triggers if your position changes since the cast began (you can prove that your position has to actually change by running into a corner and casting -- the cast will complete).

That creates a best case/worst case scenario depending on whether your packet arrives right before a tick or right after a tick. For example, if network latency is 50ms round-trip (25ms each way):

Best case scenario:

0.000 Tick 0
*0.274 Player begins casting stoneskin while moving
*0.299 Server receives casting command
0.300 Tick 1 - Server begins stoneskin cast
0.600 Tick 2 - Server cancels stoneskin cast because of movement
*0.625 Player receives stoneskin interrupt
0.900 Tick 3

Result: Client interrupts cast 351ms after it begins.

Worst case scenario:

0.000 Tick 0
*0.276 Player begins casting stoneskin while moving
0.300 Tick 1
*0.301 Server receives casting command
0.600 Tick 2 - Server begins stoneskin cast
0.900 Tick 3 - Server cancels stoneskin cast because of movement
*0.925 Player receives stoneskin interrupt

Result: Client interrupts cast 649ms after it begins.

This creates the perception of a 351-649ms (500ms avg) "delay", even though the update rate is really 300ms. That's why the interrupt time you're getting is so much higher than the actual update rate and why the "running interrupt test" is a poor way to measure the update rate. Of course, the updates now happen much faster than 300ms in high level instances where response time matters, as has been addressed by the dev response above.

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Originally Posted by Felis

the original mainstory or the 7th umbral story?

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I've noticed a lot of players stating this as the only reason they would want to play 1.0 again, and it's a fair wish, however sadly, it's not really possible. SE stated already that the original storyline (that is, the original starting city stories and the Path of the Twelve arc) was virtually retconned for ARR and have been cannibalized for ideas and plotlines which appeared in ARR anyway, so pretty much all of 1.0's story prior to the Seventh Umbral Era story is no longer really relevant. There are exceptions though, where minor 1.0 plot lines have been referred to in ARR (such as F'lhaminn and Niellefresne's plotline from the original Ul'dah story being referenced later in ARR). But it's more a case of, '1.0 lore is not canon until we make it so in ARR.'

As far as Yoshi is concerned, ARR replaces 1.0 in every way, including story, making a revival of 1.0 'to see the backstory' as more like reading a draft script for a film which changed ideas during filming and then believing the draft was canon to the final version.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I've noticed a lot of players stating this as the only reason they would want to play 1.0 again, and it's a fair wish, however sadly, it's not really possible. SE stated already that the original storyline (that is, the original starting city stories and the Path of the Twelve arc) was virtually retconned for ARR and have been cannibalized for ideas and plotlines which appeared in ARR anyway, so pretty much all of 1.0's story prior to the Seventh Umbral Era story is no longer really relevant. There are exceptions though, where minor 1.0 plot lines have been referred to in ARR (such as F'lhaminn and Niellefresne's plotline from the original Ul'dah story being referenced later in ARR). But it's more a case of, '1.0 lore is not canon until we make it so in ARR.'

As far as Yoshi is concerned, ARR replaces 1.0 in every way, including story, making a revival of 1.0 'to see the backstory' as more like reading a draft script for a film which changed ideas during filming and then believing the draft was canon to the final version.

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Ya that I can see which saddens me. I have noticed a few things that point to the old stories as they were while others were gutted or retconned. Still... this is the thing. WoW players ask for this type of thing all the time. It really got steam when Cata launched and that expac took a lot of things from the old WoW world. So I am no stranger to this thread and its type. I still would like it for the story, but understand readily that it will never be.

I loved final fantasy 14. 1.0 was superior in every way in my opinion. I believe that had the game not gone the way of pandering to children mash zombies, and actualy developed and strengthened the things that set it apart, the final fantasy 14 of today would not only be in a league of its own, I also believe it would be a powerhouse in a long line of final fantasy titles. I miss it on a daily basis. It's my cell phone wall paper

1.0 was terrible. It was a beautiful skeleton that most of us who played the alpha begged SE not to release in that state. While Yoshi and his team did a great job of fixing the issues in 1.X, it needed a ton of work and I still agree they made the right call to cut support and redesign the game.
That being said, if they could allow us to relive the story 1.X told, I would love to see them implement it.

Holy necrobump Batman!

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

Holy necrobump Batman!

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RIP Adam West.


1.0 and 1.23 were terrible games. 1.23 was an improvement, but not by much. Game was barely playable lol. And I say this as someone who paid for the collectors edition, then paid a sub for multiple accounts.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

Holy necrobump Batman!

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This is the 3rd thread I've looked at today raised from 2015. Someone has unleashed an army of necromancers on the forums.

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Originally Posted by seraseth

This is the 3rd thread I've looked at today raised from 2015. Someone has unleashed an army of necromancers on the forums.

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If they're the necromancers, but their threads get bumped with every comment thereupon, are we their army of the dead?

Spoiler: Necromancer is next job. Calling it now.

I would like to experience the story of 1.x at some point.

If it was 1.23's battle and gear system plopped into XIV 2.0+ everything else (especially the menus and everything) i'd probably play that.

I would play it simply because I have a computer that can actually run the bloody game. The Crystal Tools engine was not built for open world, and my laptop at the time couldn't run the bloody game for 30 minutes before overheating (lowest in game settings, lowest resolution). I go to like level 6 and stopped because I literally couldn't play it.

I really wanted to give the game a solid go at the time, but didn't have the hardware. Found the Collectors Edition for like $30 in 2011 after I had quit playing FF11 lol.

I would like to play it, just to see the better graphics that were removed in ARR, like the character models and whatnot!...

I think SE could make some pocket money with it by making it an offline game!... :confused:

There are things I regret not doing in 1.x, but there's only ONE thing i miss enough to question my decision to stay in 2.x+

And that was LNC. (Somewhat WAR) (Closer to 1.19)

I miss the better story of low levels, but I can watch it on youtube.

Everything else I liked was usually minor, or I can at least hope will come eventually.

(My biggest regret was not taking up MRD to 50 1st, so I could get access to more armor to use for glamour. atm I only have a few low level dated gear, and the colors i had werent too good. Mainly want the upgraded chainmail, and platemail.)

If I can all my friends back that left after 1.0 died I'd play it for the rest of my life.

Hell yes I would play it. I don't even care if there weren't any legacy rewards available, or how crappy the battle system was.
I'd kill to see the pre-ARR story through my own character's eyes.

I'd only like to "play" the storyline to know what happened by myself than watching videos on youtube.

Nope there is absolutely no reason to play a dead thing which has no content, tons of issues and poor gameplay mechanics.
Just no. That thing is deader than dead and for a good reason.

Having played through it, I can honestly say that there are only a handful of appeals to "going back," but they would extend only to:

1) one-time zone exploration compare/contrast to ARR/HW. Many areas were forgettable and empty but you see a few gems every so often where the potential was.

2) Challenging 8-man dungeons. These dungeons could wipe you if you weren't strong enough/ had a plan. and if you wanted any of the best gear at the time, you legitimately had to travel off the main path (shocking, right?) (or send 1-2 people who knew what they were doing) to grab side-chests to unlock the one chest after the boss that might have dropped the darklight. The downside is these dungeons were designed to require speedrunning if you wanted a chance at the darklight gear.

3) Hamlet Defenses. There was flaws in how it was designed to reward some Free Companies linkshells to receive the relic materials, but the actual event utilized DoL and DoH in what reminds me of a tower defense system; and there were several ways you could go about handling the assaults.

4) The beastman strongholds actually requiring a group to progress fairly deep in, not like 1-man army that we've come to enjoy.

Aside from those aspects, there was too many things that brought down the experience, especially if you're used to the mainstream systems. The animation locks on weaponskills made primals like Ifrit a little too reliant on memorizing the scripted fight (is it safe to weaponskill? No, Eruption is about to go off), the overuse of hate resets, no real market item search feature until much later (and you know how housing is limited? Imagine not being able to sell anything because retainer spots on the market were full)- Just off the top of my head.

Remake 1.x into a singleplayer prequel for FFXIV. SE would make tons of money by having FFXIV players buy it for the sake of experiencing the story of the 1.x series, and introducing other FF fans to the world of XIV (that would normally not bat an eye due to being put off by MMOs, and it might convince a few more people to sub).

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Remake 1.x into a singleplayer prequel for FFXIV. SE would make tons of money by having FFXIV players buy it for the sake of experiencing the story of the 1.x series, and introducing other FF fans to the world of XIV (that would normally not bat an eye due to being put off by MMOs, and it might convince a few more people to sub).

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What they could do, more or less is re-release the 1.x game as a single solo game using a type of solo/lan-only server emulator and an AI party and some toned down difficulty. No remake necessary, though they should probably tie bits of lore forward once the current version of FFXIV covers all the areas that were actually in V1.0.

Like more or less the V1.0 storyline needs to be available, and unless SE/Yoshi-P can be convinced to reintroduce the storyline parts back in (This is a good enough reason to invoke a time travel storyline) particularly the great opening sequences and original layouts of Gridania, Ul'dah and Limsa Lominsa. Most of the world map was uninspiring due to the copy-paste nature of it. The server emulator would simply have a small control panel to turn some things on/off and run the ending that closes the game.

As for making money, no. Many of us bought V1.0 and still have the disc. What SE could realistically do is everyone that originally bought V1.0 gets a code that can be redeemed on steam to download this solo/lan-only experience + soundtrack and anyone who didn't buy V1.0 originally can buy it as a game+soundtrack package.

Also I didn't forget I already posted to this thread in 2015 and made a similar suggestion:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2993761

I'd like to see it in some form. Maybe have the Ascians mess with the timeline or something to make it happen.

I would like to experience the story and maybe fool around with the features that they have there, but play it for more then a day or two, No!

No I wouldn't, the reason 1.0 was so great had almost nothing to do with gameplay, graphics or storyline and more to do with the intangible things like community, atmosphere and the fact the game was being destroyed and remade and the excitement around it.

The only way it would work would be to re-introduce it as a raid series in the future a "Return to Dalamund" raid or something?

But I am sure most people are tired of it really, we have moved on and newer more interesting things (invading Garlemald) will be on peoples minds rather than going back to past events.

I'd like to see the story, but not so much the gameplay.

Story yes, abhorrent gameplay no. You can play FFXI if you want to know what the gameplay was like, and if you just want the story, Youtube is that way ->

I would, yes. For all its flaws 1.0 did have some pretty great aspects to it - and there's a lot of lore related stuff that I'd like to see brought back to the forefront, particularly where the wicked aspects of the major city states are concerned.

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Originally Posted by Averax

Story yes, abhorrent gameplay no. You can play FFXI if you want to know what the gameplay was like, and if you just want the story, Youtube is that way ->

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XI gameplay is by no means comparable to 1.18+ gameplay.

No, I would not like to play 1.23b or previous versions again, already experienced all of it. As Averax said, YT has the story.

Story which mostly isn't even really canon anymore anyway as I've mentioned previously. The only real remaining canon storyline from 1.0 is the 'Seventh Umbral Era' storyline that concerned the summoning of Dalamud and the formation of the Grand Companies to counter Nael van Darnus (which can all easily be told in flashback/Echo scenes within ARR anyway) - everything else SE has basically stated is "no longer canon until we say otherwise", as they're cannibalizing the original 1.0 starting stories and the Path of the Twelve story for ideas and concepts used in ARR, HW and now SB.

So what remains canon for 1.0 would barely be enough narrative to qualify for an expansion pack, let alone a full game. And as SE always intended the 7th Umbral Era story to be short term and never to be accessed again (it's pretty telling when the achievement for completing the 7th Umbral Era storyline in 1.0 was literally called 'Once in a Lifetime!'), I think that's the final nail in the coffin for this debate.

As I've mentioned before, 1.0 is dead and buried. Leave it to rot in peace...

I would pay a separate sub on top of the current game to be able to play 1.0 as it was back then. I've always felt like I was missing out on something huge as far as the story and seeing and exploring everything before the Calamity. I know I can look up screenshots and videos and stuff but that's nowhere near the same. If SE made it possible for us to play 1.0 again I'd love them forever. This is coming from someone who started the game some time in 2.x.


To everyone calling 1.0 trash and telling us to stop bringing it up, get out. Just because you didn't like the game doesn't entitle you to silence us for wanting to experience something we missed out on, I don't care how bad you thought it was.

I'd play it for the lore

I want to go back and experience it. I didn't have a computer capable of running it when it was originally out either and it wasn't till around 2.4 I was finally able to play which has pissed me off to no end that I wasn't able to just experience the game as it grew.

Didn't this thread die back in 2015??

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...0b718fee83.jpg

I think we should have a side instance that could let us relive the CS and some of the epic battles of 1.0. The CS of 1.0 seemed to have so much more depth and development on character then ARR did.

I mean watch Uldah Intro alone. Or even Gridania. You know who the people are. That or even the "Little Ladies Day Parade" etc. Was awesome.

I've tried watching the story on Youtube. All that's there is a useless disconnected mess of cutscenes. Even placed in the correct order, there's no way to tell how far apart they take place (in terms of both space and time).

I don't care if none of it is canon any more and I'd rather judge for myself how good or bad the gameplay is.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

I've tried watching the story on Youtube. All that's there is a useless disconnected mess of cutscenes. Even placed in the correct order, there's no way to tell how far apart they take place (in terms of both space and time).

I don't care if none of it is canon any more and I'd rather judge for myself how good or bad the gameplay is.

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This series well sums it up, for better or worse: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ9CmxaQ3q8

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Originally Posted by Singularity

I've tried watching the story on Youtube. All that's there is a useless disconnected mess of cutscenes. Even placed in the correct order, there's no way to tell how far apart they take place (in terms of both space and time).

I don't care if none of it is canon any more and I'd rather judge for myself how good or bad the gameplay is.

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You're right, there is entire instanced bits that go along with the cut scenes, the cutscenes alone don't tell the entire story, and there are flavor text parts just like in V2.0 that come before and after cutscenes.

For example F'lhaminn is heavily involved with the storyline if you start in Uldah, and there's an instanced part where you are told to use the emotes that looks like just some filler quest but isn't. In the other starting areas nothing is quite as relevant.
Like this is what the cutscene shows you
https://youtu.be/1KuFyQcmNng?list=PL...Ci-3M-hy&t=418

But this is what you actually did
https://youtu.be/gySHO1Be9OM

It's part of this quest sequence
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Court_in_the_Sands

I feel that that storyline is relevant since it features Ascilia (Minfilia) and F'lhaminn who are otherwise part of the game in V2. Minfilia in v2 keeps talking about Louisoix, who isn't even in V2 unless you play the Coil dungeons. Louisoix is essentially replaced by Alphinaud (Main storyline) and Alisaie (Bahamut Raid storyline) for V2.x . Louisoix is also the game's narrator.

As for the other paths, eg Limsa Lominsa and Gridania

The Gridana storyine does have Yda and Papalymo in it, much like Thancred is in Uldah, and Y'shtola in Limsa Lominsa. However much of what happens in those is forgettable and none the lore appears to have made it into V2.0.

Like for the most part, the opening of V2.0 was a sad disappointment as you got the exact same thing for all three. With some Moogle on top if you start in Gridania.

Edit: Everyone forgets about the Path Companions because AFAIK it was supposed to be like FFXI's Adventuring Fellow, and not storyline relevant at all.

I would like to visit to see the world before the fall of Dalamud, but that's going to be a bit of a task.