Jobs you feel yoshi and team got wrong

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Warrior.

Don't get me wrong I love the class and its been my main since 2.0 but all they really did is make a more survivable dps and more squishy tank.

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It's impossible to out dps a good dps as a tank, PLD and WAR are virtually identical with the same spec and acc in regards to damage with WAR being slightly better in most fights due to its design so no, it isn't a dps. It also isn't less squishy if played correctly, just demands more 'manual' mitigation than PLD. Weather or not you think it should of been a dps, well I guess that's based on if you prefer a 2 handed axe class being a dps or tank.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Warrior.

Don't get me wrong I love the class and its been my main since 2.0 but all they really did is make a more survivable dps and more squishy tank. I feel like it should have been more offensive to contrast with the pld's defensive cooldowns. Berserk, Vengeance, IB, Bloodbath and SE/SP are good examples of offensive skills that help in tanking and enmity, especially when used in certain combinations. Then we get super lame skills like Foresight which ONLY increases Physical defense while not increasing magic defense or even parry, which is the only passive mitigation Warrior has.

Hopefully DRK will be more of what I was expecting out of Warrior while still keeping the dynamic and intense play style. Also bump Holmgang up to 8 secs

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They tried this. WAR had to go through massive rebalancing to fix it so that they would have a spot in the party.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

those are badly designed fights and right now they don't exist, pets don't die automatically to raid AOEs.

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if a pet don't die for AoE or damage taken from a raid boss, when the summoner die, it's a bad mechanic, what is the point to give them hp. if that the case, even the heal that the summoner have is pointless. people ask for pet jobs, but refuse to have the bad side of it. because that one of the bad side of the pet class for age. the fact that your pet die while raid boss is a huge part of the class.

a good player that play pet class will need to monitor him pet, move it out of AoE or attack potentially deadly for it. but even in this case, in mmorpg, a pet class don't only rely on it pet and have some skill for deal damage outside of the pet. a pet class is not simply a jobs that will only rely on the pet, but fight along side a pet.

ps: the main trouble is people want to have a summoner like in the FF games, but.... they are solo game.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i feel you ignore the main point.... the function of the spell is the same. the only difference in what you say is: it's a burst....

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It's only the same effect in the fact that the function of all attack skills from all classes/jobs is to do damage. It's the pattern in which it's done that distinguishes one attack from another or one job from another. And burst damage is a very different pattern from DoT.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

is not about doing same or different type of damage but do the same function. even if you call ifrit for launch a fire skill and disappear, is not different that cast a fireball, the only difference is to have ifrit come... it's only change the graphical effect of a spell that will have the same function. deal fire damage for x potency to X enemy.

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Well, since this game doesn't really do elemental resistances, there's essentially no such thing as "fire" damage. It's just damage. So if you ignore where the damage is coming from, when it's occurring, what conditions are needed before it can occur, etc, then sure, all DPS jobs have the same basic function, to cause damage. But that's only because you're choosing to ignore everything that differentiates them.

You know they got PGL/MNK wrong when everyone you know only level it to lvl15 to unlock other dps job and call it awful and boring.
'move too much/too complicated/not enough big numbers'
meanwhile goons everywhere

/5everaloneMNK
_:(´□`」 ∠):_

I love how people complain that Summoner doesn't summon for a single large attack in this game. I'd love them to, excluding XV that ain't out, name a main game since FF9 that uses Summon in that way, because:

FFX: Replaces entire party to fight instead. Controllable.
FFXI: Follows Summoner around and fights alongside party (Sound familiar?), though more focus was put into the summoner as the game's mechanics allowed for it. Controllable.
FFXII: Follows Summoner but replaces rest of the party for some time. Can't be controlled.
FFXIII: Replaces party to attack for some time. Controllable.
FFXIV: Follows Summoner around and fights alongside party. Less controllable than XI due to game mechanics.

In all previous games, the Summoner would of had a backup spell type, being it Black Magic, White Magic, both or something different. In XI and even Tactics you could choose which. Arcanist spells makes the Summoner no different at all. It's just a variation of what FF already had established for Summoner. More focus had to be put on the Summoner due to mechanics of the game.

Summoner all day. It's really the only job they completely screwed up.

Dragoon I'd have preferred that jumps had damage immunity.

I'd like bard and rogue to be their own separate things but meh.

Bard for two reasons.

1. As a bard it just isn't enough. Too few songs.
2. It's the wrong job to come from ARC. RNG would have been a better choice, also where the hell are all our status effect arrows?

Machinist for one reason.
Isn't Cor. Just personal preference but I wanted corsair so badly as the gun class.

Ninja for one reason.
SATA. I'd have preferred rogue to go to thf with SATA but would have been happy if SATA had just been given to nin.

Black Mage.
Elemental wheel.

Samurai. Because we haven't got it. Also because when we do get it, it won't be able to be anything like what I liked about SAM. There are no skillchains for it to be the coordinator for.

- i do think that bard need more song too, however, i'm not shocked to see it coming from archer, they have explained countless time why they have done this choice. for avoid to have jobs that are unplayable without a group. it's them choice.
for the arrow type, i guess we need to wait a bit.... and if it's a jobs that must be more oriented song, give them this sort of tool is maybe too much. they can't be the jobs that buff and debuff at the same time...

- Corsair was exclusive to FF11, when machinist is a recurring jobs...

- SATA? but we do have sneak and trick attack.... they are used with the help of suiton. it's one of the most important mechanic of the ninja. since trick attack increase the damage the target take of 10% for 10 sec. (without forget it's some of our most powerfull attack)

- the elemental wheel was take out and it's better like this, people that did play the V1 must remember how some jobs was screw because of an element resistance. indeed we did loose in deepth for combat and all, but it's still better than have some jobs simply not wanted on some encounter because of it. imagine a monster that resistant or absorb fire damage, BLM will be simply banish from this encounter. since them dps in ice umbral is really low.

ps: a lot of your complain are because you want to see FF11 into FF14, is like ask to see FF6 into FF7... each Final Fantasy is unique. you have recurring monster and some skill... however, each game is made like it's was the last game of the series. we can't even call this a series, since exept the rare case like FF 10-2, FF 13-2, FF 13-3,... the game Final Fantasy have no link between each of them. even the game from the ivalice project had only Ivalice as same stuff, the difference in the time period was soo much big that nothing was left of the other game.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

I love how people complain that Summoner doesn't summon for a single large attack in this game. I'd love them to, excluding XV that ain't out, name a main game since FF9 that uses Summon in that way, because:

FFX: Replaces entire party to fight instead. Controllable.
FFXI: Follows Summoner around and fights alongside party (Sound familiar?), though more focus was put into the summoner as the game's mechanics allowed for it. Controllable.
FFXII: Follows Summoner but replaces rest of the party for some time. Can't be controlled.
FFXIII: Replaces party to attack for some time. Controllable.
FFXIV: Follows Summoner around and fights alongside party. Less controllable than XI due to game mechanics.

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The ones in XIV look crap though.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

The ones in XIV look crap though.

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they look like a fragment of power of a being that can't be controlled, remember? if you try to summon on primal like ifrit (what will cost you tons of crystal) it first action will to subjugate you or...kill you.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

The ones in XIV look crap though.

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To add what's been said above, they're also made to look like aetheryte crystal due to the lore of them. Another factor is to have them small as not to take up too much room on the screen as it's alot busier movement wise than most FF games.

Once we get to and beyond the Ascian part of the story, the summons will grow as we will be powerful enough to summon from other dimensions but only after certain events take place in the future.

exactly, but you must keep in mind that the jobs summoner of FF14 is a good version of the summoner. you simply need to move away of the previous FF. (most of them was solo game)

1. Lore is not an excuse for the designs of the development team. It's been stated during one of the live letters / NicoNico Choukaigi events that they are designed first, and lore is built around the designs second.

2. In that other Final Fantasy MMO we're not supposed to talk about, players also received a fraction of the avatar / primal's powers, and we all know what those look like.

3. Somewhere in the Dev Tracker, the devs confirmed that they are size they are because of not wanting to clutter the screen, etc. and they have no plans to make them evolve or grow in size in the future.

4. The lore, according to the official websites also states that summoners in times immemorial "had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will." (Link for reference: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/gam...ontent?jobs_08) If I've bound this essence, this fragment of the primal's power to my will, could I please "will it" into something a little more presentable? At least Garuda-Egi?

5. Summoner has bigger problems than aesthetics, such as the lack of distinct functions or utility that gives incentive to use more than one Egi in any given encounter. When we have Titan, Ifrit, Garuda, Ramuh, Leviathan, Shiva, and whatever Egi they give us down the road under our belts, I DO NOT want to be using just one while the others collect dust on the shelf because my only concern is "my deeps."

I thought ifregi would at least have Blaze Spikes by now. Since low level fire mobs have it.

So basically you like ffXI, ok thanks for a thread on this.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

So basically you like ffXI, ok thanks for a thread on this.

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With all due respect this games whole entire concept and theme is being pulled from other FF games, single player ones too!

I think they messed up the group dynamic both in party size and the way enmity works in general, because it works against the tank now. And it also inspires negative competition amongst dps. Not to mention the heart attack moments it can cause healers. These are all stresses that we could as players do without because we have enough to worry about with laggy aoe animations versus their cast timer bars and all the one shot mechanics you like to throw at us without giving us the ability to effectively use items like healing potions or phoenix downs in combat, hence causing a wipe whenever it's not due to the dps checks that are imn place of actual things you normally have to react to in a FF game, like being poisoned with bio up on you or being slowed and needing haste to bring you back to normal speed again.
Players want to be able to pull mobs even at the risk of being 1-3 shot without preparation and as dps not have to worry about tanking while in the presence of a tank because they have multiple ways of shifting threat away from them and or onto another. You can always give us moves like SATA or you could add odd number to grouping system allowing a support player class with an aoe that reduces enmity for himself and raises it for tank or even an aoe reduction for all non-focused members. As well as other fun tools to gift his/her party.

I think they could easily make summoner feel like summoner by just replacing each of the Egi's 5th ability with an actual BRIEF summon of the primal. For instance, using the ability with Ifrit Egi would cause Ifrit to appear and do a big fire attack. Black mages' flare is a pretty big effect, and I don't see why SMN couldn't have a similar big effect that lasts about the same amount of time. Barring that, hopefully SMN level 3 limit break in 3.0 will maybe be a real summon.

Also, I think they should have just made carbuncle the Scholar summon.

Dear SE: Please remove SMN Soul Stone until it can be added as a solo job in the future. Please instead buff Arcanist significantly while allowing it to retain the abilities SMN had.

Look's like a valid solution. SMN has a second chance, and mainly everyone gets Carbuncle back =D

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

they look like a fragment of power of a being that can't be controlled, remember? if you try to summon on primal like ifrit (what will cost you tons of crystal) it first action will to subjugate you or...kill you.

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I know what the lore around them is, My comment still stands though, they don't even compare to the other instances of summoning you mentioned.

I for got MNK. Because they removed Simian Thrash.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

I for got MNK. Because they removed Simian Thrash.

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WHY THE **** IS THAT NO IN THE GAME NOW!?

@___@ and that stance is so much better. I hate the constant bunny hopping they do now!

Summoner is the Job with the biggest problems. It just doesn't feel like a Summoner when most of the player's attention is focused on DoT management, only you only have to pay a little attention to your summon. Your DoTs don't help your pet and your pet mostly doesn't help your DoTs. As such, the pet ends up feeling unimportant, which is a big problem for the main pet DPS Job. It really needs to reverse that, so that the pet is the main thing you worry about and the SMN is mostly acting to support and control it.

As for other Jobs, I kinda wish that MNK was a tank (it was really tough back in FF1-5), that BLMs had more spell variety and support options, and that BRDs had a bigger focus on support. A NIN tank would be cool too, mostly because it works really well as such in Bravely Default.

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Originally Posted by TwinBahamut

Summoner is the Job with the biggest problems. It just doesn't feel like a Summoner when most of the player's attention is focused on DoT management, only you only have to pay a little attention to your summon. Your DoTs don't help your pet and your pet mostly doesn't help your DoTs.

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Well, we could give egis the Death Knight treatment where their abilities do not do full damage unless you have X, Y and Z DoTs on the mob. I guess on paper it doesn't look bad, but I do think it would considerably raise the skill ceiling of summoner. Can't say if that's a good or a bad thing.