We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

TLDR Buffs pls, final coil is punishing to keep sustained at the cost of dps vs BLM and gear is just trash, make spellspeed useful

Utterly clueless. no one ruin 2 spams.

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Originally Posted by Miotoss

Utterly clueless. no one ruin 2 spams.

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They do if they want to do any respectable DPS.

EDIT - Adding in a post of mine from Reddit discussing other issues with SMN's that isnt just to the extent of MP only.

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I think one of their issues isnt their damage, or their MP issues, its that they're trying to be bards, without having
A: utility to make up for low damage (like bards have songs, great burst damage, etc)
or
B: High damage with a bit of utility (like a Monk, with Dragon Kick and Mantra)
The problem with this is that all of their utility is already covered; Virus? ok, you have a Scholar anyways.
Eye for an Eye? Again, you have a Scholar.. the WHM can also cross class it.. so can the BLM, and all the trait does is reduce the cooldown.
Battle Raise? Please, this costs you literally 30% of your max MP. You SERIOUSLY want to use this? Ok, sure, enjoy the rest of the fight spamming Energy Drain.
Disease that stacks with Heavy? Again, Scholar, sure, they'll miss.. but they eventually will get it on the target.
So because of the relative low amount of utility they have, they need more damage. The number quoted on the removal of Thunder was 12% - That is exactly about right, and that is A LOT of damage - it's the biggest nerf to a classes' damage since release. I'm not asking for thunder back, what I'm trying to say about Thunder is that removing it was a HUGE nerf, such that it made them a lot easier to compete with in BCoB when the nerf happened, and since then most of the classes, except bard, have recieved buffs, which puts SMN in line with a Bard, essentially.
There ALSO was a stealth change to SMN in Patch 2.2. This change is unknown to a lot of people, but it is a change nonetheless that was pretty significant if you ask me: Pets no longer scaled on Spellspeed. This is huge for a SMN's DPS - what it meant is spellspeed no longer affected the DoT with the HIGHEST SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE that a SMN Dealt - Garuda's Wind Blade. Garuda's Wind Blade, over the course of a fight, deals the MOST damage out of all of our individual skills, so it scaling on spellspeed was HUGE. It would be like, for example, skillspeed affecting the speed on a Monk's Autoattacks. Autoattacks on a Monk at like 25% of their Total Damage, its the same idea with Garuda. It was huge, and it's been gone since 2.2, simply changing that back would make a huge difference, actually.
So what I'd propose as a "solution" to their problems, is rather than straight up buff them, make changes that also affect SCH, but less so.
1: We have this proc on our pet that increases the SMN's spellspeed by 30% - it's a low DPS increase, but a DPS increase nonetheless. The problem with THIS Proc, however, is it's a buff to our weakest secondary, that only really gives us 1 or 2 more ruins over the course of a fight. This Buff ALSO, back in 2.0-2.1, used to affect the pet, but with the change noted above, no longer does. (this wouldve been AMAZING - Garuda used to get to 2.3 GCD or so, which was sooo good), so a good change to this if it's not going to do anything to the pet, would be to refresh all DoT timers to their Maximum Value on Pet Crit, with a low % Proc rate (10? 20%?). This would affect Scholars, but this wouldnt really do much except to Scholar's damage. This "maximum value" would be even a non-Contagion'd Bio 2 will go to 45 seconds, Miasma 39, etc, which would allow a SMN to not have a recast again. This wouldnt just value Garuda, it would allow you to use other pets, as well, as they'd all have a chance to proc this, in fact Titan/Ifrit would benefit from this the most, as they have twicet he chances to crit with their autoattacks.
2: Higher Base Potency on Fester. Make Fester like a NUKE, like, Firestarter Proc crit, nuke. This would make them blow all their MP, but whilst doing so make them do SO MUCH DAMAGE during that time. 300 potency base -> 430 potency or so would be amazing, + 30% more on top of that, due to the trait.
3: This one a lot of people have commented on. WHY DOES ENKINDLE HAVE A 5:00 COOLDOWN. It doesnt do NEARLY as much damage to warrant a HALLOWED GROUND cooldown. Garuda's Enkindle is only 250 Potency. Want to know Garuda's Enkindle's Potency Per Second on a single target? 0.8 PPS. ON A 5 MINUTE COOLDOWN. Seriously, Miasma 2 does more Potency, more than FOUR TIMES more potency per second, and it's worse t han using ruin. 4.6 PPS on Miasma 2, and its the leazst efficent skill you can you. So there's options on a buff here; either increase the potency, or lower the cooldown to something more respectable, 5:00 is just too damn long for how weak it is in comparison to other classes' level 50 skills.

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Also one suggestion would be make ninjas goad increase mp instead tp. Goad is kinda useless if you need sing tp song after all for all melees.

I dream of an egi's ability that increase DoT damage and a skill that allows you to move from an egi to another without using swiftcast.

Anyway, no official response yet? I guess SMN will stay like this at least until 3.0

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Also one suggestion would be make ninjas goad increase mp instead tp. Goad is kinda useless if you need sing tp song after all for all melees.

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Everyone makes it out like Goad is useless.. lol, it's not, its the largest DPS increase another party member can give to anyone else, exempting paeon/foe's - it lets the other melee's use fracture (Which is HUGE, BTW), but I suppose that's an option, make it increase TP and MP regen.. but then ninja becomes equal to bard, so that's not a great solution either.

Well, taking about new skills is pretty much useless at this point, unless its for 3.0, which is still months away.
Only thing devs can look into are changing specific traits that would lower or recover the smn's mana consumption without changing sch.
I personally vote for tri-disaster, since its a dead pve skill (its good in pvp). So maybe something like potency of 30, plus a mana drain debuff of 30 for 15s, then adding an anti-tri-disaster buff for 1min or something similar >_> (maybe decrease time to 9s for pvp)

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Also one suggestion would be make ninjas goad increase mp instead tp. Goad is kinda useless if you need sing tp song after all for all melees.

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NIN has no use for MP. It really doesn't make sense in my eyes to give them an ability that restores MP, even if it is for party members. It would make it feel like a very tacked on ability.

Honestly at this point I wouldn't expect any major changes until the expansion. SMNs were stating their arguments for buffs at the very beginning of 2.4. If something was going to be done I would expect it to have been done when they buffed DRGs in 2.45. FCoB is almost certainly going to be the hardest content until 3.0. 2.5 will bring the last piece of the crystal tower storyline. Yoshi P said that it will be in line with the difficulty of the previous two raids. There's a live letter this weekend, but I would assume its focus is going to be on either 3.0 and or 2.5.

My group's main blm hasn't been playing due to rl issues, so I've taken over in the meantime. I really dislike how little attention SE seems to be paying attention to how summoner plays. Like the fact that summoner needs flank accuracy instead of caster accuracy because of pets. There are several issues with summoner that I hope get addressed.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

Honestly at this point I wouldn't expect any major changes until the expansion. SMNs were stating their arguments for buffs at the very beginning of 2.4. If something was going to be done I would expect it to have been done when they buffed DRGs in 2.45. FCoB is almost certainly going to be the hardest content until 3.0. 2.5 will bring the last piece of the crystal tower storyline. Yoshi P said that it will be in line with the difficulty of the previous two raids. There's a live letter this weekend, but I would assume its focus is going to be on either 3.0 and or 2.5.

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SE always does balance changes in the big patches, 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4, however small (or huge) they are sometimes. I have no doubt SMN will get adjusted, I just hope it's as impacting as WAR/BLM/DRG.

I don't want SMN to be godly, I just want them to be competitive T10-13. Anything in the future, they can change with the level cap raise, adjust numbers then if they want SMN identity to be lower DPS but higher utility/toolset. We need level 50 tuning, a bandaid fix of just MP and damage would be fine for our purposes.

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Originally Posted by Miotoss

Utterly clueless. no one ruin 2 spams.

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I have seen this said a couple times in various forms. Let us all reiterate if you believe this you have clearly not been reading anything in this thread, and you are clearly not an endgame summoner.

All these issues have been apparent for quite awhile (arguably starting since t8 to be perfectly honest). Hell, I even had to switch to WAR for FCoB because of all the issues. Honestly the reason why SE has taken their time to respond to this thread is because they shot themselves in the foot by making 1 class have 2 jobs. Granted many people have given wonderful suggestions but now SE has to be more creative on how to buff one without buffing the other.

Bottom line, they never should have taken Thunder away and yes it is time to give it back. This would solve nearly every dps issue.
It's obvious Aetherflow won't be touched until level cap increase in 3.0 so for mp the most practical (and simplest; read less time/$$ consuming) solution is to put piety on gear just like healers have accuracy on theirs. This is a complete no-brainer.
And for the love of all that is holy separate caster gear sets already!

I can't even go into Spell Speed, SE already acknowledged in a not so straight forward way that they know its nearly useless because they said they are retooling it for 3.0 , but the above mentioned are a good band-aid until 3.0. Perosnally, I find spell speed is the biggest issues, and this situation shows that they have been drastically neglecting class balancing and secondary stat options. SMN Ironworks book SE, really? The scholar ironworks book is better at dps than the piece of crap smn ironworks book. This is something that has definitely scarred my experience in ARR sadly.

I have been playing smn since the start of 2.0, it was my first level 50 and, while I dont have many dow/dom's up to 50, I have played enough of nearly everything that I know without a doubt summoner is my one true passion in this game. This has nothing to do with being top dps and everything to do with SE doing a much better job in the future about how they handle job growth and development.

*unrealistic wish, Please take the battle rez away from us so that uneducated players will stop throwing it in our faces as a beneficial skill.

piety in gear will help blm more than smn (more mp to spam fire ) , reducing ruin I II mp cost is the easy solution ,separating caster gear is a no-no we have enough gear that goes to no1 already ~~ and loot tables are huge in some bosses.

and every other tier has been "·!$! for some jobs , last 1 was hell for bards and drg , lots of Skill speed every1, and have u seen other weapons? bard has acc and skill speed ....i find it infuriating.

why u will want battle rez removed ? ~~ , smn is the only dps that can do it is an awesome perk

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

stuff

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I don't nessecarily believe giving thunder back will fix all of the issues. Thunder WAS huge, yes, but giving back Thunder, with its massive MP Cost, will just exacerbate the MP problem, the damage will go up, sure, but it won't fix the MP part of the problem.

Piety on gear won't fix it either, because SMN and blm both share the gear atm - so more piety would just make BLM even better - especially when they get to the magic number of a 6th fire in their Fire rotation.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

why u will want battle rez removed ? ~~ , smn is the only dps that can do it is an awesome perk

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Because if your SMN is the one doing the Battle Rez, something has gone extremely, extremely wrong. Like, three deaths in under a minute wrong, or two healer deaths wrong. If it's down to that point, there's a fair chance it's going to be a wipe, anyway, especially when the SMN can't DPS anymore because he just spent a minute's worth of MP on a single cast.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Piety on gear won't fix it either, because SMN and blm both share the gear atm - so more piety would just make BLM even better - especially when they get to the magic number of a 6th fire in their Fire rotation.

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Well, they *could* put it only on the weapon, but it's hard to imagine them putting a significant amount all onto one piece.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

piety in gear will help blm more than smn (more mp to spam fire ) , reducing ruin I II mp cost is the easy solution ,separating caster gear is a no-no we have enough gear that goes to no1 already ~~ and loot tables are huge in some bosses.

and every other tier has been "·!$! for some jobs , last 1 was hell for bards and drg , lots of Skill speed every1, and have u seen other weapons? bard has acc and skill speed ....i find it infuriating.

why u will want battle rez removed ? ~~ , smn is the only dps that can do it is an awesome perk

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Piety on separate gear sets, obviously blm does not need any piety. And our battle rez has no place in end game without the mp production to support its use (without penalty to dps going beyond scope of simply mp cost).

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Originally Posted by Odowla

I don't nessecarily believe giving thunder back will fix all of the issues. Thunder WAS huge, yes, but giving back Thunder, with its massive MP Cost, will just exacerbate the MP problem,

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Well, this goes in tandem with the mp/piety issue, we could not make use of thunder without a mana adjustment of some variation.

A separate gearset for SMN with piety replacing spellspeed could be an interesting concept. You'd still prioritize crit/det, obviously, but it would make our auxiliary stat a bit better than "useless". You'd dump just as much of it off gear as you could afford, but extra would give you more wiggle room for pet resummons and battle rez.

SMN has an awesome damage, while not total burst of "Imma going to do three skills and kill that add" they still have a very powerful DPS and good constant-AoE for up to 4 enemies (And most dungeons are like that).

Using SMN well, very well, it's not easy, and the difference between that and use it average is high, super high. In my opinion is the caster most difficult to use (Well, of course, BLM is a joke). If you know which pet to use and you use all the skills manually and you know really well how to use SMN, it doesn't really need any buff at all, aside.....:


- Increase the max DoT a monster can have. It is the unique disadvantage of the summoner, dealing in ST or hunts with the fact that DoT is limited to 60 per monster-boss.

To the fact of having a good DPS (Tricky and hard to max out, but, hey). You also have the unique super mega exclusive abbility of being able to raise, and nothing, NOTHING in this game like rez the healer or healers in the best moment and save a run that'd be lost if you'd be with other DPS class.

Perhaps also adding a little more of piety to gear... But, I have not really had MP troubles yet with my SMN, and its weapon is a shitty zenith, and the gear is all the soldiery one with crappy bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

To the fact of having a good DPS (Tricky and hard to max out, but, hey). You also have the unique super mega exclusive abbility of being able to raise, and nothing, NOTHING in this game like rez the healer or healers in the best moment and save a run that'd be lost if you'd be with other DPS class.

Perhaps also adding a little more of piety to gear... But, I have not really had MP troubles yet with my SMN, and its weapon is a shitty zenith, and the gear is all the soldiery one with crappy bonuses.

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At first I was going be super smelly and sounding like an elitist jerk :p But for some reasons your way of writing is just too cute for my heart :), so I'm gonna be gentle for once.

The thing is, the whole debate in this thread is mainly aimed to midcore/raider (endgame) situations, back in the past the smn community already had a warning about a possible MP management issue when we firstly met turn 8 in scob but every other turns were kind of "decent" and with a proper mp management you shouldn't encounter much problems.

Today is a whole and new story, welcome in fcob where every single turns got adds (mostly ton of adds), no cooldown-moments for mp management and those said reasons will lead to radical / critical situations where you may no longer be able to maximize your dps as a SMN because of a terrible lack of mps.

And about raise during fights... To make it short, a raise during turn 13 will most likely mean to just wipe and restart.

Because of that, SMN is now in a very bad position when it come to a competitive point of view, a good leader with the will of getting a fast progression into fcob will aim for the best team setup and so for the good of its team... Which mean, if as a static leader for fcob, you have to choose between a BLM and a SMN to fill the last spot of your static, the obvious choice will lead your hand to BLM, no questions.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

Which mean, if as a static leader for fcob, you have to choose between a BLM and a SMN to fill the last spot of your static, the obvious choice will lead your hand to BLM, no questions.

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Unless its a Good SMN vs a Shitty BLM, Yes.

SMN Actually has burst, and that's about it, they're pretty good at it (bursting as hard as bards, wut), but that's about it - their PPS drops instantly once their Raging Strikes falls off.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

At first I was going be super smelly and sounding like an elitist jerk :p But for some reasons your way of writing is just too cute for my heart :), so I'm gonna be gentle for once.

The thing is, the whole debate in this thread is mainly aimed to midcore/raider (endgame) situations, back in the past the smn community already had a warning about a possible MP management issue when we firstly met turn 8 in scob but every other turns were kind of "decent" and with a proper mp management you shouldn't encounter much problems.

Today is a whole and new story, welcome in fcob where every single turns got adds (mostly ton of adds), no cooldown-moments for mp management and those said reasons will lead to radical / critical situations where you may no longer be able to maximize your dps as a SMN because of a terrible lack of mps.

And about raise during fights... To make it short, a raise during turn 13 will most likely mean to just wipe and restart.

Because of that, SMN is now in a very bad position when it come to a competitive point of view, a good leader with the will of getting a fast progression into fcob will aim for the best team setup and so for the good of its team... Which mean, if as a static leader for fcob, you have to choose between a BLM and a SMN to fill the last spot of your static, the obvious choice will lead your hand to BLM, no questions.

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Well, I appreciate your explanation (And a very good one, with calm and patience), since I acknowledged the position of summoners in final coil (I'm not too much into searching for other 7 to go) :3

Perhaps my definition of summoner is very acceptable for all content, except t9 further?. Indeed if a ton of adds where you need mega-burst power appear, your bane only covers 3 enemies, and you don't have time for using some of the pets AoE and stuff.... Summoner could be in troubles.

PS: Your explanation deserves like!

The main problem that the Summoner has is it shares its base class with the Scholar so SE can't do anything to the Summoner without affecting the Scholar. Summoner is harder to play than other dps jobs played perfectly Summoner's average 30-40 dps below every dps except Bard even if other dps jobs screw up their rotation. If a player makes a mistake on a Summoner its a huge dps lose compared to other dps and that's why their dps should be 10-15% higher than other dps jobs on average. If SE wanted to increase dps they can increase the pet damage by 15% or they can make it support by giving the pets passive utilities and party buffs.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The main problem that the Summoner has is it shares its base class with the Scholar so SE can't do anything to the Summoner without affecting the Scholar. Summoner is harder to play than other dps jobs played perfectly Summoner's average 30-40 dps below every dps except Bard even if other dps jobs screw up their rotation. If a player makes a mistake on a Summoner its a huge dps lose compared to other dps and that's why their dps should be 10-15% higher than other dps jobs on average. If SE wanted to increase dps they can increase the pet damage by 15% or they can make it support by giving the pets passive utilities and party buffs.

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I'm all for a SMN buff but, come on, 10-15% higher DPS than other jobs on average? That'd be completely ridiculous, especially if talking about single target and considering they're a ranged class. They're also not that hard - a "mistake" is letting a DoT fall off, which is not even close to a melee rotation mistake or losing a cast on BLM. The worst mistake can be not having stacks for Bane or Fester for a burn, but it's very easy to stop yourself from mindlessly Festering before said time.

Let's not let this thread fall by the wayside with all of the posts about the new expansion stuff! SE, please throw SMN a bone before worrying about new jobs and classes!

Also, while I agree with the above poster that a huge DPS/potency buff to SMN is probably a little unfair, I actually REALLY like Akiza's idea that pets bring utility to raid rather than just being the damage drones that they are currently. SMN already do about as much damage as BRD but bring none of the utility. Things like letting Ifrit have a small TP restore or Garuda place a Foe's-like debuff on a single mob for a short duration might let us see more PFs like "LF BRD OR SMN for new Heavensward raid static!" instead of just "LF BRD and BLM for new Heavensward raid static!".

Obviously the utility doesn't have to be those EXACT suggestions, but I hope they confer my meaning adequately enough. I'd rather see SMN get more utility than more damage, but that might be a personal preference.

putting foe on smn is a tricky proposition. It sounds awesome I agree but depending on the application that's a 10% damage increase to summoner and even more reason for bards to under use foe, this hurts blm because of that... I just want foe removed form the game and an ability given to the casters that does the same thing >_>. Bards really annoy me.

Another thing of interest and relevant is machinist, due to it being ranged its something we have to compete with technically since bard is also a competing for 1 of 2 ranged slots. Its really all speculation and baseless at this point though.

heres some utility examples:

Ramuh egi:

stormcallers mark: applies a reverse damage shield on the mob, every action taken on it for the next 20 seconds results in a proc of 35 damage on the mob (number is an example, this ability can get bonkers in multi man raiding though.) 150 sec cd

shiva-egi

Icequeen's solitude: applies mp regeneration on the party for the next 12 seconds (cd: 120 seconds) (approx 100 per tick)

leviathan egi:

liquidity: increases attack speed of party members by 10% and reduces casting time by 10% (30 second duration) 150 sec cd) (I know lore wise this should go on garuda but w/e.) (note: cast time reduction would synergize well with summoners already not wanting spell speed, as a large gcd would benefit more from reduction.)

Etc.

I know this is 3.0 changes but this was my idea of odd utilities. Summoner summons have a wide array of elements and thus can really be fit into anything lore wise. all the values above are examples, don't read into that too much. Just giving examples of utility.

SE should make the Summoner a Pure Job since that's where they are going with the class system. The Summoner should be a Controller Pet Dps and control the entire encounter. Since Summoning Magic is stronger than Black Mages Summoner's should have higher single target bursts and greater aoe potential. Pets should bring crowd control and massive AoE bursts.

Ifrit Egi - eruption deals massive damage and reduce physical resistance of all enemies radiant plumes increases physical damage of part as well as dealing massive damage.

Titan Egi- Titan Shield provides party defense and Weight of the Land deals massiv damage and slow to all enemies.

Garuda Egi- Great Whirlwind hits all enemies deals massive damage and increase magic damage of party Friction cause dot and reduces magic resistance of all enemies.
increases magic damage

summoner doesn't need massive buffs... until expansion maybe even then i'd call them adjustments.
Right now it needs some love from SE <3
especially on expansion since no caster/casting jobs were announced..

After watching that live letter, I wonder if there's gonna be SMN adjustments in patch 2.5; I'm a little worried. :/

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I'm all for a SMN buff but, come on, 10-15% higher DPS than other jobs on average? That'd be completely ridiculous, especially if talking about single target and considering they're a ranged class.

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I mainly just want to address this portion but what does being a ranged class have to do with how high your dps can be? Maybe in the past when content was designed more punishing for melee but that hasn't been the case for quite a while. For most part, you aren't any safer attacking from range as your are in melee distance and for quite a lot of fights, ranged classes fight right next to the boss with the melee.

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Originally Posted by Shizuna

After watching that live letter, I wonder if there's gonna be SMN adjustments in patch 2.5; I'm a little worried. :/

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yeah same, I thought they would have said at least something by now ; ;

Well, I tried Levi-EX tonight for the first time. I wiped first every single fight. It really doesn't seem like a hard fight either. I know what to avoid and what to attack, it's just, that whole waiting for my pet to actually execute the command I gave it 3 seconds ago thing sometimes...

Maybe I'm a bad, but maybe I need something like mw/mv too....

I feel I'm a paper smn. Call it a lack of skill, lack of buffs, lack of something. I had an ls member that wanted to help disconnect on me, ah hahaa.

At least my blm is close enough to 50 now I can continue that, I guess... It seems rather easy to survive being blm than smn.

It's just sad my pet can have more HP than I do, but pets dies when I do.

Levi EX is doable with summoner. That's how I cleared it. I'd say keep at it until you get it. The biggest issue I had was not falling off, so if you've got that you're going in the right direction.

SMN is pretty beast on Leviathan. You can actually Dot both Leviathan's head and tail, as well as multi dot all the spumes whereas all the other classes minus bard have to select their target and stick to them. You can inflate your DPS a lot on summoner on Levi EX, I even broke like 200 dps once just pretending to be a summoner on my scholar once there.

In the future I hope SE can give SMN some buffs, but to direct them toward better MP longevity more than anything.

Summoner needs to be a pure job with high single target and aoe bursts since Summoning Magic is stronger than Black Magic. Summoner should be a Pet Job in the Controller Role with massive crowd control abilities to control the entire encounter of the fight. Pets should have massive aoe nukes, single target nukes and crowd control. Summoner's should excel in massive AoE nuke, single target nukes and crowd control. If SE does make a Controller role they should add party slots for it and make sure raids can't have more then 2 Controllers per Raid.

lol discussion is dying, what's with these posts

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

lol discussion is dying, what's with these posts

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I think some people in this thread has made some good points and suggestions. I don't really have a lot to contribute, but I'm just trying to bump this up so the GM's and staff still know that there are some people who are concerned about SMN, especially in FCOB. I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention from them though, but I guess that's to be expected since we don't have enough people complaining (like they did for DRG's) about the current changes/hot-fixes we need. We don't need suggestions that would completely rework SMN. I, for one, personally want a piety increase and a lower cd/boost to Enkindle, and anymore than that would be a bonus.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

lol discussion is dying, what's with these posts

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The problem is, lot of people gave constructive arguments, provided maths, exposed situations where and why the SMN community is having issues and some people here even offered possible solution to the said problems.
There is nothing else to add in the discuss now...
But.
No answers from Community Staffs / DEVs. If they don't reply to this thread within the next week, there is kind of no hope to see any answer before 3.0 (and so, it will just means many months to be like "deal with it").

I forgot to highlight the lack of SMN based on how many static groups (that I know of or heard) have cleared T13 with a SMN in a group. And I only know of 1 on my server. Just ONE. You know how sad that is. I think this has been mentioned before, but most people who played SMN switched to BLM. This is just saying something, when there's practically no one who wants to play as SMN for FCOB.

I'm tying to find the thread where this was going on with BLM and coil2 back around April. The devs seemed very quick to address the issue and increase blm potency by too much. Yet here we are SMN having the same issues with FCoB as BLM had with SCoB, and SE still just ignores us. Perhaps its because of fanfest but we are about to hit 21 pages. It's a bit absurd at this point, but keep bumping people!

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

No answers from Community Staffs / DEVs. If they don't reply to this thread within the next week, there is kind of no hope to see any answer before 3.0 (and so, it will just means many months to be like "deal with it").

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Adjusting any job/class is a big deal in the game even if it's minimum. In order for them to actually give a proper reply, they have to look at the data/feedback- especially the Japanese dev team- to make anything official. To be honest, they should always think about how BLM/SMN will play out with mechanics they've designed in coil fights. Even then adjusting things on T12 with bane shows that they didn't really consider any of the possibilities of how each class will be played and to what extent.

Terrible RNG with a lot of movement (no downtime) =
1- Alright with SMN but it's still moderately difficult to play.
2- SMN will have mana issues on the long run.
3- BLM will suffer but their DPS will not be too far behind from a SMN. ( they have been buffed for this anyway cause they are SE's favorite <3 )

Good RNG with little to no movement (no downtime) =
1- BLM is easier to play with lots of DPS, especially with adds all around.
2- SMN will be able to keep up on DPS if BLM doesn't go fireworks mode with procs all the time.
3- Mana issues even with no movement on the long run.

so when they design fights with predictable movement patterns or no movement much, they expect both classes to be ok with it? <.<

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shizuna

I forgot to highlight the lack of SMN based on how many static groups (that I know of or heard) have cleared T13 with a SMN in a group. And I only know of 1 on my server. Just ONE. You know how sad that is. I think this has been mentioned before, but most people who played SMN switched to BLM. This is just saying something, when there's practically no one who wants to play as SMN for FCOB.

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I cleared FCOB as a SMN, I didn't switch to BLM but it still took quite the effort to do so...
It's ok though spellspeed helped!! /sarcasm