Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

Just woke up, my rotation may night be as "optimal" as some my claim opening examining the opener, but it makes everything fall in place VERY nicely throughout the whole rotation, it's as follows.

Power Surge, Internal release, Blood of Blood (all as you are approaching the target), Heavy thrust, Leg Sweep, Impulse Drive, Jump, Disembowel, Dragonfire dive, Chaos Thrust, Spinshatter Dive, Phlebotomize, --> thrust rotation, Heavyt thrust, thrust rotation, Phleb, Dot rotation, you guys know the rest, rinse and repeat keeping everything on cooldown as soon as it pops up pretty much. I sneak mercy stoke in there on the dummy during thrust rotation when applicable.

Will post a parse when able to do so soon.

Mercy stroke/Assassinate on dummies is cheating. Especially when looking for "real world" numbers.

drg+ps4=magical dps? you tell me

there was a vid 2-3 weeks ago with a drg doing above 530. the gear listed isnt recent, but it was 120 or 130 wep with ppp and str x-pots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6A5XcsTSvU&

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Mercy stroke/Assassinate on dummies is cheating. Especially when looking for "real world" numbers.

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I'm looking for max dummy numbers here. Real world numbers I'm hovering around 450 on T10 and T11 kills @ i114 with Nexus. That's why everyone says u cannot compare dummy numbers to raid numbers. I do my best to do the most on a dummy just as I do my best to do the most I can in raid.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

drg+ps4=magical dps? you tell me

there was a vid 2-3 weeks ago with a drg doing above 530. the gear listed isnt recent, but it was 120 or 130 wep with ppp and str x-pots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6A5XcsTSvU&

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Looks about right. Can't tell if his DFD is hitting the dummy behind him or not.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Right, Monk can, and that's what makes Ninja CC less viable for this turn? Ninja's can at least contribute to the silencing duty, while a dragoon cannot. And ninja's can solo silence Turn 9, here's your example.

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How many times do I have to reiterate that NIN CC is perfectly viable? Just because it's weaker than other classes doesn't mean it isn't viable, as I keep saying over and over again. Though, I shouldn't be surprised it's going in one ear and out another. And again, I'm asking you to show me an encounter where a single NIN can replace two other CC sources. Was this somehow not clear in my original post?

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

On the contrary, I could say I have cleared Ifrit HM without stuns at all. Your scrub encounter experience is too player influenced, rather than mechanic or class related and holds no value.

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So have I, but Ifrit is a perfect place to demonstrate that nearly the entire player base recognizes that PLD has the best stuns. Even the people who don't actually care about stunning the Eruptions realize that PLD has the easiest time of it. Now, how many groups have you been in for Levi Ex with no PLD to stunlock the add? I don't think I ever saw one form that didn't have a slot reserved for PLD.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

And likewise, how Ninja gets outclassed by ONE class, Ninja outclasses TWO on the DPS category.

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NIN gets outclassed in CC by a lot more than one class.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

"Immediately". Prior to the nerf, if the binding effect is applied after the petrification ends, at least one healer always dies here due to build up enmity due to binding delay. This "immediately" you mentioned will result to another death and it's very likely it's the other healer due to build up enmity. So this "immediate" binding effect you mentioned will result to one death, if not more.

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. . .And meanwhile your BRD group has two healers dead because the BRD can't rebind for another how many seconds? And why are you talking about rebinding after petrify wears off? Why is petrify even wearing off?

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

The only instance where 3 would be true would be pre-nerf Turn 7. Which is simply laughable now. And the thing about 2:
All casual, or casual-made content like BCOB and SCOB, can be completed with zero crowd control abilities. In harder content, which would be FCOB, CC is completely irrelevant. Even in SCOB Turn 4 before it gained echo could have been done without silence.

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Actually, 3 can be true in a lot of casual content. Since, y'know, most progression content falls under 1 or 2. And, sure, if you want to go do BCOB T2 with zero silences, be my guest. And I would love to see videos of Levi Ex in 2.2 gear with no CC for the fear add. Of course, I'm assuming you're counting primals as casual, since you only list FCOB for "harder content." On the other hand, you're also ignoring the pre-nerf version of fights when it suits your argument to do so.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Mention of tanks in those replies were relevant because Paladins is the only class out there that suffers from switching oaths. Which was necessary to underline the fact that ninja's can freely switch poisons. Monks would be a bad comparison in this case because they are free to switch stances like Ninja's.
The "tanks" mentioned here would refer to warrior. Which follows the same mechanics as the "restriction" you mentioned yourself. Still relevant.

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But you specifically mentioned their CC ability, which is not their oaths. You can't claim that you were referring to one thing when you were clearly referring to another, as should be obvious to anyone who reads what you wrote.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

And it's still perfectly doable without Holy or Shadow Flare.

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In five minutes to the first two bosses, while wearing patch 2.2 gear?

Presidential debate right here ^

Posted today.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...22#post2622222

So, I dont read Japanese... but based on Chrome's translator...
Whirlwind Blade (Aeolian Edge)? Is going from 50 TP to 60 TP.
Kagekiba... Kage = Shadow... Shadowfang? Is going from 60 TP to 70 TP.
And the poisons and going from +20% to all damage to +20% to Physical damage, so thats an effective 20% nerf to Raiton and Suiton.

The nerfs of Raiton and Suiton wont hurt too much, its a loss of 108 potency per minute, or 1.8 pot/sec... Well the basic Spinning-Gust-Aeolian combo w/ +20% damage on a 2s gcd is (150+200+330)*1.2/6 = 136 pot/sec. Add in Shadow Fang's dot and 10% damage from Dancing Edge, Mutilate, autoattacks... yeah Nin is probably somewhere around 140 pot/sec, so a loss of 1.8 is only about 1.3%.

The real question is how will the 2 TP increases affect things?
Anyone care to just crank through a "idealized" Nin rotation's TP costs, factor in the 60 TP / 3 sec natural regen, and give us a rough idea of how long it takes Nin to run dry now, and after these 2 changes?
I know that in most situations, without using Invigorate, Monk runs out in about 90-100 seconds, as does DRG. So I guess they want the same for Nin... But it would be good to double-check their math. =)
Perhaps both TP increases are going to be too much?

Translated.

It is Yoshi P's reply to a post on the Japanese forum.
In short
Aeolian Edge: 50TP -> 60 TP
Shadow Fang: 60 TP -> 70 TP
Kiss of the Wasp: increase damage -> increase physical damage
Kiss of the Viper: increase damage -> increase physical damage

That's not really much of a nerf at all. Hopefully that means Dragoons are getting a big buff then, because if not the gap between DRG and NIN/MNK isn't really going to close enough for people to value them.

hm, that's like 350 less damage on a 2050 crit raiton

not sure how to feel. still feels unnecessary when monk is still left as is

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

yeah Nin is probably somewhere around 140 pot/sec, so a loss of 1.8 is only about 1.3%.

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I calculated 168.1076 potency/sec without ninjitsu (only the first 51 sec, though, so it's loaded with buffs)

Looks like just a minor adjustment to me, just as told they would do. Hopefully, all the weep about it will stop now.

But still waiting DRG changes :D

I hope the drg buffs are stupid good, and people switch from nin to drg.

Seriously, way too many ninjas.

in a 2 minute rotation you'd get off 2 hutons, 2 raitons and 2 suitons. with kassatsu at the start and at the end thats 4 raitons; lets just simplify it and assume you do 1.5 raitons every minute (since kassatsu cd is 2m and its basically a free raiton every 2m)

so in a minute right now (disregarding the guaranteed crit because im lazy) , you do 540 (1.5 raitons) and 180 from suiton, 720 total. with the +20% dmg buff it becomes 864, so effectively ninja loses around 144 potency per min, or around 2.4 per second. probably a bit underestimated because it doesn't factor in things like foe or the guaranteed crit from kassatsu, so lets just say 2.5

iirc when i parsed potency amounts, nin did around 230 (tested again; 233.66 over 3:16) potency per second solo. so it's something in the range of 1.5% nerf on single target. this nerf does affect their ninjutsu aoe too

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...45-Nin-changes


Aeolian Edge and Shadow Fang cost up by 10TP to 60 and 70.
Poisons increase physical damage only.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

I hope the drg buffs are stupid good, and people switch from nin to drg.

Seriously, way too many ninjas.

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Problem will be as it still is the case too many players that will not know how to play the class properly

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Originally Posted by Maero

Problem will be as it still is the case too many players that will not know how to play the class properly

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That doesn't stop people from playing ninja.
D:

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

drg+ps4=magical dps? you tell me

there was a vid 2-3 weeks ago with a drg doing above 530. the gear listed isnt recent, but it was 120 or 130 wep with ppp and str x-pots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6A5XcsTSvU&

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yeah with his gear set up he should be pulling way over 530, looked at his video and he was clipping dots, and always saving his jump, my set up i pull 510 on a dummy and thats with only 1 130 piece and i120 wep (yeah this coil treating me like shit -_-), he should be near 580 cause ik another drg friend of mines he has almost his same set up with exception of i130 dread gloves and he pulls 570-580 on a dummy

Hello, everyone.

The following is a comment from Yoshi-P about the upcoming ninja adjustments that will take place in Patch 2.45.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Producer and Director Yoshida here.
Thank you so much for all of the feedback and discussions on the ninja adjustments.

As mentioned during the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XVIII we will be making adjustments to ninja in Patch 2.45 with the following plan.

• Adjustments to the TP cost of certain actions
• Small percent adjustments to DPS

The core part of this adjustment is not taking place to simply weaken ninja, its purpose is for ninja’s content compatibility and balance between the other melee jobs, monk and dragoon.
I would like everyone to understand this point.

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■Adjustments to the TP cost of certain actions■

I'd like to start off by explaining the reasoning behind the TP adjustments. When ninjas participate in content, in order to utilize their ninjutsu they are executing their weapon skills at a lower frequency compared to monk and dragoon. When continuously attacking for the same duration of time, the amount of TP consumed by ninja is lower than that consumed by monk and dragoon, and as a result we will be making adjustments as the elbowroom for this TP is too great.

Compared to monk and dragoon, there are less situations as ninja where you need to consider your TP when selecting actions and hold back on TP consumption since it’s difficult for TP at the moment to be depleted in the long run. Since ninja’s edge on both single-target attacks and area of effect attacks has become higher, we will be making adjustments to the TP cost of only the following actions.

• Aeolian Edge (TP cost 50 → 60)
• Shadow Fang (TP cost 60 → 70)

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■Small percentage adjustments to DPS■

Next, I'd like to explain the reasoning behind the DPS adjustments. Considering that ninja utilizes ninjustu which is a complex system that is quite different from other jobs up until now, we designed the job without directional-based weapon skills. However, as a result, between the trade-off not being able to weave in actions while using mudras for ninjutsu and the positive aspect of having no directional-based weapon skills, the latter has become too great.

In relation to monk who needs to constantly maintain Greased Lightning and dragoon who needs to move around to a monster's flank and rear, we will be making adjustments to ninja’s overall DPS by reducing it by a small percentage in order to strike a balance between the three melee jobs. We will be doing this without destroying the core design of the job and the difficulty.

Based on this, we will not be making any adjustments that would destroy the action rotations currently in use by everyone, add direction requirements for weapon skills, or adding another layer of complexity. Instead, we will be balancing ninja by modifying the following actions.

• Kiss of the Wasp (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)
• Kiss of the Viper (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)

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■Summary of the adjustments■

We will be balance ninja with the other melee jobs while maintaining the following two points:

• Since ninja possesses the complex ninjutsu system, the concept is that they are able to move around freely without directional-based attacks.
• Maintain the current mainstream rotation, and complete the adjustments with as little changes to how it feels as possible.

I apologize that we were not able to balance ninja when it was implemented, and I appreciate your understanding.

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Beautiful changes.

TY Grekumah. Chrome's auto-translate was not nearly as eloquent lol

So nerf to all ninjutsus except Huton(possibly Fuma shuriken),i'm ok with that.

TP changes weren't too big either, so NIN's utility is still there and the job remains valuable.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Hello, everyone.

The following is a comment from Yoshi-P about the upcoming ninja adjustments that will take place in Patch 2.45.

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I think these changes and the thoughts behind them look good.

But the real question is, will we see sweeping changes in PvP at some point? It doesn't seem fair that MNK and DRG need to position on a (probably erratically) moving target (that ain't happening), while NIN can just run around like crazy and 1-2-3 to victory with no thought to positioning at all. Honestly, PvP needs such a massive overhaul I wouldn't even know where to start without writing up a novel. So how about it?

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

I think these changes and the thoughts behind them look good.

But the real question is, will we see sweeping changes in PvP at some point? It doesn't seem fair that MNK and DRG need to position on a (probably erratically) moving target (that ain't happening), while NIN can just run around like crazy and 1-2-3 to victory with no thought to positioning at all. Honestly, PvP needs such a massive overhaul I wouldn't even know where to start without writing up a novel. So how about it?

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Doubt you can count on seeing much change in PvP until the expansion unfortunately. Hopefully they are taking this into consideration for future changes though.

I don't get it, I'm really confused. I'm not a drg or nin, but still.. He is using this is part of the excuse for the nerf,

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dragoon who needs to move around to a monster's flank and rear

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. And at the same time, on the op you can see this comment.

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We will be making changes to the directional requirement on some actions. Specifically, you will not lose the buff if you fail to meet the directional requirement on the action.

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Why would he even use that excuse about DRG if it wont even exist after the next update. I just have a feeling NIN dps will be underwhelming, and drg will be op compared to nin because they are making these changes at the same time. Maybe I missed something, or am taking it too much out of context.

That's a valid point Drako, I would only add that since we aren't sure on the DRG changes just yet, they are probably just going to allow you to gain HT buff or continue IDC combo regardless of position, but it could be like monk where it's a reduced potency unless you do hit the positional. So they would still need to move around to get max damage.

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Originally Posted by Drako

I don't get it, I'm really confused. I'm not a drg or nin, but still.. He is using this is part of the excuse for the nerf, . And at the same time, on the op you can see this comment. Why would he even use that excuse about DRG if it wont even exist after the next update. I just have a feeling NIN dps will be underwhelming, and drg will be op compared to nin because they are making these changes at the same time. Maybe I missed something, or am taking it too much out of context.

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The general assumption is Dragoons will have positional requirements more similar to Monk after the patch. So you'll still get your buffs and progress to the next step of the combo if you miss the positional but they won't get bonus damage. No one knows for sure yet if that is going to be the change, but it seems to be the most logical one if they are looking to resolve the issue of positionals being a block for combo/rotation progression. So in this scenario positions are still a factor, but not a total halt.

I don't know why you think Ninja damage will be underwhelming though because they do fantastic DPS currently and the change isn't big at all just like they said it wasn't going to be. The real question is what will actually happen with Dragoons with this buff. That's the information we'll all have to wait for, but if you are a Ninja I don't think you have anything to fear with the upcoming patch.

lol nin nerf? What nerf?!

If anything, dragoon buff will be underwhelming, but who can say. I'd like about as much buff for dragoons as blms got last time they were buffed, but eh, one can only hope.

Yeh the ninja changes are just fine. I honestly don't see the big deal. They received a slight DPS nerf and a slight increase in TP cost.

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Originally Posted by Drako

I don't get it, I'm really confused. I'm not a drg or nin, but still.. He is using this is part of the excuse for the nerf, . And at the same time, on the op you can see this comment. Why would he even use that excuse about DRG if it wont even exist after the next update. I just have a feeling NIN dps will be underwhelming, and drg will be op compared to nin because they are making these changes at the same time. Maybe I missed something, or am taking it too much out of context.

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Even if played perfectly, DRG DPS is noticeably less than NIN. So relaxing on the position requirements doesn't really affect DRG DPS. What most likely will happen after this patch is MNK top DPS still, DRG 2nd DPS, NIN just behind DRG but more utility.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

If anything, dragoon buff will be underwhelming

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Would be so damn disappointed if that's the case by patch day. We really need a huge boost, namsayin'?

Yea I wish Yoshi would spill the beans about DRG changes too :(

For those unaware, this means that your kisses will no longer boost your ninjutsu damage. Ninjutsu is magical.

So are they removing the flank requirement for dancing edge damage boost?

There never was a flank requirement. NA translation error. We've known this since before NIN was released. >_>

I see, I didn't know that. If it was "known" before release, how did it make it to the tooltip in-game? >_>

I wonder why people are so upset about the nerf. It doesn't look that bad. When I hit 2k raitons, I always thought to myself "this needs a nerf".

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Originally Posted by Bien

I see, I didn't know that. If it was "known" before release, how did it make it to the tooltip in-game? >_>

I wonder why people are so upset about the nerf. It doesn't look that bad. When I hit 2k raitons, I always thought to myself "this needs a nerf".

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I think once people know this is what the nerf is they will be less upset. The general issue was people assuming the worst when told that NIN was getting nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I think once people know this is what the nerf is they will be less upset. The general issue was people assuming the worst when told that NIN was getting nerfed.

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I for one was never really upset about the incoming nerf, but I *was* wary and worried they'd take it too far. However, on first glance, the nerf seems small enough that it shouldn't affect my enjoyment of the class. I can't tell how much I'll feel the TP nerf until I get to try it, but the DPS nerf is small enough to not bother me.

Still not sure why NIN needed a nerf. MNK is still the best DPS in the game by far and nobody is whining about that.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I for one was never really upset about the incoming nerf, but I *was* wary and worried they'd take it too far. However, on first glance, the nerf seems small enough that it shouldn't affect my enjoyment of the class. I can't tell how much I'll feel the TP nerf until I get to try it, but the DPS nerf is small enough to not bother me.

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The nerf was still unnecessary concidering there is a class that has always been topping ST DPS and still remains supreme while getting away untouched.
I saw mostly Dragoons cry about Ninjas outdoing them, I guess it became too much for them to be in the shadow of not only one melee but two.
I was actually amazed by how balanced Ninjas where, they have nice burst and good sustained damage while being slightly behind the monk in ST.