Why is BLM getting a buff?

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Originally Posted by Alise

Except weapon, all the gear are shared between Blm and Smn. why not people just play both class and use Smn for single, Blm for AoE. Then you would end up being good at both.

I don't see why Blm people need to be only Blm. I play Pld mostly, but when party ask me to go War, I can easily change it. If you have enough time to gear up End-game dungeon like coil then you should easily have enough time to level 2nd class.

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So what you're saying is use BLM for T4 and SMN for everything else......... That doesn't sound like there'd be any point to even being a BLM then.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Naturally instant Fire 1 would address a lot of BLM's mobility issues, while keeping them locked into the Burn - Regen cycle.

So yes, that would help.

The other issue is, simply put, BLM, somehow, someway, with its AMAZING 468 potency attacks left and right ALL DAY ALL NIGHT!!!1!!! *cant keep a straight face anymore*
*Sigh*

A fairly standard BLM rotation, ignoring Thundercloud procs, puts out ~110 potency per second.

A SMN rotation, generally maintaining dots, ignoring Fester, and having Garuda do nothing but Windblade... puts out more potency/sec than BLM.
Also almost 1/3 of it is just from Garuda, and another good 1/3 is from dots, plus Ruin 2 can be cast on the move... so more total potency output, and mobile too.

A MNK rotation, without cooldowns, and counting autoattacks, puts out a lot more than BLM.
(PS. Most monks will tell you there is no such thing as a monk "rotation"... well fine, I had to make a decent repeatable sequence for simulation purposes, sue me)

What it eventually comes down to is that IF you take every dps class, provide them with an ideal parsing environment (Training Dummy, Foe's / Paeon, Disembowel), and have them go nuts for 6 minutes, enough time for 2+ full CD sets, with them becoming available again at the end of the 6 minute parse, then you will see that BLM is last...
That said, Bard may be "close" to last, but they are about to do their massive CD fueled burst again at the 6 min mark, so... yeah.

BLM needs 2 things.

1. Fix the severe mobility issues, then adjust dps. Dont just add an extra 50% to every attack and call it a day.

2. After addressing mobility issues, bring BLM ST dps to the same level as SMN ST dps.
That way, when you have 2 target fights and they are far apart, SMN has an advantage.
When you have 2+ targets that are close together, BLM has an advantage.

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This is by far the best answer/explanation to this question. Read and process, folks.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Except weapon, all the gear are shared between Blm and Smn. why not people just play both class and use Smn for single, Blm for AoE. Then you would end up being good at both.

I don't see why Blm people need to be only Blm. I play Pld mostly, but when party ask me to go War, I can easily change it. If you have enough time to gear up End-game dungeon like coil then you should easily have enough time to level 2nd class.

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And "just go SMN" is the laziest.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Except weapon, all the gear are shared between Blm and Smn. why not people just play both class and use Smn for single, Blm for AoE. Then you would end up being good at both.

I don't see why Blm people need to be only Blm.

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Weapons as of right now. It's a heavy investment to either get an Animus or spend 1300 tomes + sand + tomestone to get the i100/i110 weapon. Since i110 weapons are such a huge upgrade over i95/i100, once you buy a weapon you're basically locked in that class efficiency wise until you obtain another weapon somehow.

Weapons, and people like to play different classes so you have different gear priorities (not fun to have the same ideal BiS as other people in your static), play styles, and in this case, it can be nice to have the on demand burst and AoE of a BLM, even if in current raids those aren't needed in the slightest.

what bother me is.... the black mage is a bit weak only in particular situation... if they try to balance the class around this... what will happend in the other situation where the black mage was good? will he become more good?

I think a more suitable solution would be just to make more BLM friendly content. Maybe some content involving less moving, or maybe 3rd coil can feature multi-bosses or something so AoE is useful? There are plenty of solutions that don't require nerfing other classes or buffing BLM more than it needs(lets be honest, it's pretty OP over all).
Besides that DONT YOU DARE TOUCH MY DRG, SE!! It's hard enough to remain competitive DPS-wise with the insane rotation we have >_>

If Black Mage's cast time gets reduced to nothing then they better do that for Summoners as well because their poisons are definitely not instant aside from Bio I

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

If Black Mage's cast time gets reduced to nothing then they better do that for Summoners as well because their poisons are definitely not instant aside from Bio I

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If Summoners' cast time gets reduced to nothing, then they had better give Black Mages a pet....you can go on like that forever ;)

Maybe a buff that lets you cast while running for a little while?

I honestly hope they won't nerf Monk. Is it true that I have used all DPS and so far the one I love because it is outdpsing the other classes (Or maybe because i just love it a lot) is the monk... But there are lazy bad monks, normal monks, and good monks. They can't nerfe this job, a bad lazy monk will deal less in single target than standard BLM. (Standard because it is not exactly a difficult job to use after all, neither risky)

It would be sad that a monk that is all the time moving and hitting correctly by the flanks and from behind would deal a normal damage than other class do just by sitting around.

Like someone said before, the new coil is not well adapted to BLM, that's the main issue ...
If coil 2 had an aoe style turn like t4 and t5 (a bit), the overall coil would be quite balanced for all classes.

But even then, monk is clearly overpowered in single target, I ve done a alt monk (i88 at the moment), and he outparses clearly all other dps classes ~i98 in T6 (like 20-30% more dps). We had no smn that's maybe why.
Not try other turn yet, but that's insane, I just have the extreme claw. And i don't think I have the perfect rotation.

I was really depressed when i return to my i100 blm that do less dmg than my i88 monk ;_;

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Originally Posted by Behb

Like someone said before, the new coil is not well adapted to BLM, that's the main issue ...
If coil 2 had an aoe style turn like t4 and t5 (a bit), the overall coil would be quite balanced for all classes.

But even then, monk is clearly overpowered in single target, I ve done a alt monk (i88 at the moment), and he outparses clearly all other dps classes ~i98 in T6 (like 20-30% more dps). We had no smn that's maybe why.
Not try other turn yet, but that's insane, I just have the extreme claw. And i don't think I have the perfect rotation.

I was really depressed when i return to my i100 blm that do less dmg than my i88 monk ;_;

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I believe Second Coil doesn't favor BLM because it's a tighter dps race in Turn 1 with average iLVL 95~ or so gear than most all previous content. As a result, you clearly feel the lower dps of BLM, whereas it wouldn't have been such a problem previous to this. If everyone's dps isn't top notch, you have to do more acrobatics to deal with mechanics, etc. BLM was around on par with MNK before they gave a flat increase to melee damage, so obviously when that happened MNK became clearly superior in any scenario where they could leverage their damage efficiently.

I don't believe MNK is overpowered in terms of single target damage. DRG is pretty much on par with them. BRD is only a bit behind. Depending on the specifics of the fight, SMN is either ahead of them, equal to them, or a little behind. BLM is clearly behind pretty much every other dps, by a wide enough margin to notice. I play with MNK, DRG, BRD, and SMN in my group, and everyone is pretty good. I personally play SMN/BLM/BRD, as needed, for whatever I do, and I basically only use BLM for myth speed runs, bc AoE, yo. If you're "clearly outparsing" everyone else with inferior gear as MNK, then everyone else is either a BLM, a BRD, or pretty horrible at their job (or your parser is broken, or a bad parser).

The main problems with BLM are 1) the PvP nerfs and 2) luck-based mechanics. It's kind of funny that even after nerfing Blizzard 2, BLM manages to face smash everyone on AoE, but the real annoying PvP nerf was halving the damage on Scathe, as well. Basically making your "on the move" damage pretty much garbage. Thanks, SE. Then, on top of that, whether or not you do even decent dps relies entirely on how many times you proc Firestarter and Thundercloud. If you're the luckiest person on earth, your BLM might seem competitive. More likely than not, however, you're going to be pretty awful. Unless every fight is like Garuda or Turn 4 and you need to clean up a ton of adds. But wouldn't it be kind of boring if every single fight was set up the same way? Hence BLM needs to not suck completely on single target, which is the present reality.

Personally, I would hope that they'd let you set up Firestarter and Thundercloud rather than luck into it, or completely rethink the single target rotation. Doing something like just making Fire an instant cast and calling it a day wouldn't work, because BLM has weaker damage on a single target even in the most optimal scenario.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

So what you're saying is use BLM for T4 and SMN for everything else......... That doesn't sound like there'd be any point to even being a BLM then.

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Blm is the most demand class for brayflox which most people has to do daily right? that is already more than enough. SMN is just weekly raid.

In comparison, you would end up use BLm more often than Smn.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Blm is the most demand class for brayflox which most people has to do daily right? that is already more than enough. SMN is just weekly raid.

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Really? You're going to go with that argument? Balancing is supposed to be done given endgame content, not something you do the day you hit 50. The fact that your justification on the weakness of blm is "they're great in brayflox" is borderline offensive, and I don't even main blm.

Here's something i just thought. If they up blm potency, most unskilled tanks wouldn't be able to hold threat. My thought "still in alpha" lower the potency of all spells sightly, but lower cast times and the gcd by .3-.5 seconds. Let blm's hit lower but more often, and it will increase their mobility by default. Just a thought, pick it apart if you want.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

I believe Second Coil doesn't favor BLM because it's a tighter dps race in Turn 1 with average iLVL 95~ or so gear than most all previous content. As a result, you clearly feel the lower dps of BLM, whereas it wouldn't have been such a problem previous to this. If everyone's dps isn't top notch, you have to do more acrobatics to deal with mechanics, etc. BLM was around on par with MNK before they gave a flat increase to melee damage, so obviously when that happened MNK became clearly superior in any scenario where they could leverage their damage efficiently.

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Are you high? T6 was a joke even in i90.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Blm is the most demand class for brayflox which most people has to do daily right? that is already more than enough. SMN is just weekly raid.

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Ok, sure. Make Brayflox HM drop ilvl 110 gear.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

If we were purely meant for dps, why did we get apocatastasis T_T

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What are you gonna do after you use Fire Starter? Sit around for 2 seconds?

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Originally Posted by Haibel

to word correctly, We are going to nerf other jobs single target dps so blm isn't as bad in relation.

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or just increasing singletarget a bit and lowering aoe a bit

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Ok, sure. Make Brayflox HM drop ilvl 110 gear.

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As the initial post said. Any content you want AoE, use blm. Any content you want single dps, use Smn. It is good that SE share all the gear set now, don't be lazy and level up another class if you play to seriously play end-game. It is a waste anyway if you get the best caster gear, but limited it to be used with blm only. Only weapon that you need 2x. but all of my friends has solution by using coil weapon 1x and animus 1x.

Everybody in my static all end up learning to be able to play any class that share the same gear without anybody asking them to do so. They consider this the best for party to be able to adapt accordingly to situation. If you aren't prepared for this, you aren't ready for end-game, seriously. Instead of having every content designed for you in fixed, why not have you prepare to be handle against variety of situation instead?

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Originally Posted by Alise

?

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Several reasons, actually:

1)stat priorities or different for blms and smn. BIS are different. Yes, they can wear the same gear, but if you have bis in blm, going smn will won't be as useful. My main is a scholar, and if I were to go whm, I wouldn't be as effective since I have so much crit.

2)Enjoyment. people want to play the classes they want to play. I understand your sentiment, and to an extent, agree that people should have another geared job for the just in case. However, what if your dragoon hates monk or vice versa? What if you force them to play a class they don't like until new content comes out? People quit, either the static or the game. Making people do something they don't want to do on a regular basis in order to progress is lazy on the part of the static leader, and it's lazy on the part of developers. You seem to have a static that tend to enjoy the other classes they have. You're lucky and the exception, not the rule.

This has to be the first FF game I've ever played where BLM is not a powerhouse glass cannon...So why not make use of exploiting elemental resistances? Or does that not apply to enemy mobs?

And if it doesn't, who's bright idea was it to not include it in the damage calculations?

Or how about allowing for double casting on single target spells?

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Originally Posted by Alise

Everybody in my static all end up learning to be able to play any class that share the same gear without anybody asking them to do so. They consider this the best for party to be able to adapt accordingly to situation. If you aren't prepared for this, you aren't ready for end-game, seriously. Instead of having every content designed for you in fixed, why not have you prepare to be handle against variety of situation instead?

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Your saying "BLM DD Sucks, so learn to play a different class", yet every dps class should be viable in end game raid content.

I'm a BLM, I chose to play BLM, why should I change my class?

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Originally Posted by Elway358

This is what I'm afraid is gonna happen as well. Hide ya monks, hide ya dragoons...cause they nerfin' everything up in here!

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They be climbing in ya windows and snatchin your DPS up

I think they're going about it the wrong way. Sure, our top single target dps may not be able to reach as high as mnk or even smn, but we shouldn't just have a damage increase. Give us the tools to keep our dps high in movememnt heavy fights and let us learn to use them. Give blm's a faster swiftcast cd, Make Surecast not useless, maybe a buff that lets us cast while moving for 10 seconds.

I don't understand why the devs always go for the simplest ideas and fixes

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Originally Posted by Halloween

I think they're going about it the wrong way. Sure, our top single target dps may not be able to reach as high as mnk or even smn, but we shouldn't just have a damage increase. Give us the tools to keep our dps high in movememnt heavy fights and let us learn to use them. Give blm's a faster swiftcast cd, Make Surecast not useless, maybe a buff that lets us cast while moving for 10 seconds.

I don't understand why the devs always go for the simplest ideas and fixes

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I, and several other members of the community have been throwing around the idea of making Surecast allow BLM to cast on the run for a short time FOR MONTHS...
Somehow people dont want to do that... Probably people who've never played BOTH BLM and SMN on T6.

In my static, our tank quit and the first idea was to get rid of me blm and make me war so we could get a smn replacement ;-p I like war just the same, but it's just the way the environment is for blm's in coil2

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Originally Posted by RygaenYuui

And if it doesn't, who's bright idea was it to not include it in the damage calculations?

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The problem lies in the fact that they want BLM to only use Fire and Frost. They throw a bit of Arcana there like Scathe, but mostly Fire and Frost

I don't like the idea of that, I agree.

But I don't know how to implement elemental weakness. If you include a weakness, everyone will start using only magic class. If you only include strength against, even if you include multiple magics they'll just use either one and be done with it.

BLM itself needs to be overhauled. The current idea is just terrible, but I don't know how they can achieve it.

And why, for all that is holy, is Fire not the DoT and Thunder be the direct damage?

Wasn't blm supposed to get buffed in today's patch? I saw no mention of it in the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Wasn't blm supposed to get buffed in today's patch? I saw no mention of it in the patch notes.

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First post in this thread... it mentions changes are in 2.3

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Originally Posted by RygaenYuui

So why not make use of exploiting elemental resistances? Or does that not apply to enemy mobs?

And if it doesn't, who's bright idea was it to not include it in the damage calculations?

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This is a design decision that actually makes a lot of sense with the current system. Black Mage was a much different class (not that all weren't) back in 1.xx, where resistances were actually A Thing. Now we have our Big Damage spells, our MP Recovery Spells, and our DoT Spells, all being of different elements, but getting their fair use and having roles to play.

Imagine if it were like 1.xx. You could not cast fire spells on Ifrit. Most of what you did on BLM in 1.xx was Thunder --> Thunder II (and it was not an issue because Ramuh was not around then). We'd also get the shaft if/when they'd have added Shiva, as we would not be able to transition into UI3 effectively. The lack of resistances on enemies, from a game play perspective, makes sense as is.

As an aside, the only thing I do miss from 1.xx is Freeze. God, Freeze used to be so awesome.

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

But I don't know how to implement elemental weakness. If you include a weakness, everyone will start using only magic class. If you only include strength against, even if you include multiple magics they'll just use either one and be done with it.

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@ Rygaen, Raestloz,

Good questions about Elemental Weakness. There were a lot of good threads and feedback to the Devs during 2.0 Beta from myself and many others. An Elemental system is one of those staples and fits "Final Fantasy" so well, but Yoshi P decided against it. :( Even back then, many of us felt it made no sense that you're nuking and damaging Ifrit (a being of pure FIRE), with "Fire" spells, LOL.

Some of the suggestions would've worked, such as:

* Melee Classes could have Weaponskills with Elemental Aspects to them (e.g., "Red Lotus Blade" (would have Fire Damage Properties in addition to regular Damage)).

* Materia could imbue a Job with Elemental Aspects (e.g., an "Ice IV" Materia could grant "+ Ice Damage"). (Of course this was before their decision to make Materia meldable gear generally less powerful.)

* And ultimately we weren't asking for any game-breaking Bonus Elemental damage; just enough to make it worthwhile and interesting.

Final Fantasy feels better with Elements meaning something. It's more engaging IMHO.

The irony in all this is that Yoshi P's answer back in Beta was that Elemental Systems would lead to imbalance because people would just play Black Mage (or any Elemental user). But here we are at 2.28, and there are clearly imbalances, and hierarchies for Job / DPS output, etc., and BLM is actually not desired.

Removing the Elemental Wheel didn't make all the Jobs "balanced" nor "even" in terms of usability at all. It's just led to blander, vanilla Jobs.

Personally i think they should address the mobility issue by lowering the damage of fire 1 and make it an instant cast, see how that pans out. You're still limited by a manabar, and then you have to switch to ice. baby steps to balance.

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

Personally i think they should address the mobility issue by lowering the damage of fire 1 and make it an instant cast, see how that pans out. You're still limited by a manabar, and then you have to switch to ice. baby steps to balance.

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This doesn't solve the problem of low blm dps though because even when standing still a BLM will get beat by every other dps job, lowering any of their potencies will make them even worse off. The real solution to all BLM problems is stacking firestarter, need to move no problem 2 instant fire 3's coming up, and no more wasted procs meaning you're just doing more dmg.

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Originally Posted by Alise

As the initial post said. Any content you want AoE, use blm. Any content you want single dps, use Smn.

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Why can't people just play what they like instead of what does better damage? People don't want to feel like they're holding back their group by underperforming due to factors outside of their control.

There are only a couple of instances where BLM can even realistically AOE in the new raid content: middle briars and leftover slugs on T6, Dreadnaught + Avatar on T8, and van Darnus + Dragon if you're solo tanking on T9. Otherwise, BLM is at a disadvantage in some of these movement-heavy fights.

what you described is exactly what will happen to summoners once blms get buffed

I mean it already happens now just because of class bias, but when people get a legitimate reason to do it?

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Your saying "BLM DD Sucks, so learn to play a different class", yet every dps class should be viable in end game raid content.

I'm a BLM, I chose to play BLM, why should I change my class?

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Yeah, like it, then you should accept its strength and weakness also.
Not going to tell you which to play. just saying that if anybody care about max/ min, then you gotta play many class. If not care about max min then do whatever.

It would be weird if Blm is best single dps, and AoE dps at the same time. Then Smn will simply have no room.

Why are the tanks upset with BLMs getting a buff to their single target dps? And why does buff immediately mean they're going to be the best?

Honestly, the way I'm reading it, it doesn't sound like they are buffing dps, but giving them more options that would make you want them in your group.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

....BLM should not have good single target damage...

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Sorry to say that IMO above was a wrong statement.

I think BLM should have the highest Single/AoE DPS, the trade off is interuptable casting.
When everyone is not moving, by what reason BLM should have lower dps than others? ^^;

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Originally Posted by Alise

Yeah, like it, then you should accept its strength and weakness also.
Not going to tell you which to play. just saying that if anybody care about max/ min, then you gotta play many class. If not care about max min then do whatever.

It would be weird if Blm is best single dps, and AoE dps at the same time. Then Smn will simply have no room.

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Who said anything about wanting BLM to be "the best" single target dps?

it's about doing adequate dps for the class to be seen as viable in a serious raid group.

For most aoe situation's at end game, SMN is actually the best (or close to it) imo, as most of these aoe situations consist of 3 or less mobs.

If anyone actually cares about doing optimum damage, it's best to master 1 class than to play many "well".

I seriously doubt SE is gonna be buffing BLMs by any significant amount. Believe it or not, SE is actually smarter than 95% of the the player base so I'm sure that they are well aware that such a buff will create major imbalances. But who knows.

Anyways, I've heard that Yoshida said that they were not really "buffing" BLMs, they are making changes to jobs, and not just to BLMs. He even said that a "buff" to BLMs will likely create imbalance. He did also say that their goal is make it so no job will be preferable to any other job in any way (which is impossible really). It does worry me though, if that is their goal then their goal is make every job exactly the same except perhaps in play-style. Maybe that's what people want though?