Zoidac Weapon 2.28

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Originally Posted by MrLeonheart

Guaranteed drop at a specific interval, while keeping the low drop rate so that if you do get lucky, it takes a bit less time to move on. You're guaranteed progress after a certain point, but have the chance of being able to progress more quickly if you happen to get lucky.

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Or you gt a stacking buff which increases the drop chance slightly in the zone until you get a drop as you complete FATEs. Then the buff clears. Or you leave the zone. Start at 1% and increase by 1% every FATE you complete without a drop.

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Originally Posted by MrLeonheart

Guaranteed drop at a specific interval, while keeping the low drop rate so that if you do get lucky, it takes a bit less time to move on. You're guaranteed progress after a certain point, but have the chance of being able to progress more quickly if you happen to get lucky.

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While I understand and it would make some people happier, 'guaranteed' = 100% ≠ randomness.

In any case, with the amounts of threads (threats?) on this issue, SE will have no choice but to give us all Animus for all our Jobs, including those from the coming Expansion through Moogle Mail..

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Doing something easy once, is not hard, it's easy. Doing the same thing 100 times doesnt suddenly make it harder, more difficult and in no way challenging. 683 FATEs (I kept count out of interest) it took to get my 12 ATMA. It's patience not difficulty that gets you the ATMA weapon.

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Patience? In MMOs? In 2014?

Ain't nobody got time for that!

*Kudos for your atmas.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Doing something easy once, is not hard, it's easy. Doing the same thing 100 times doesnt suddenly make it harder, more difficult and in no way challenging. 683 FATEs (I kept count out of interest) it took to get my 12 ATMA. It's patience not difficulty that gets you the ATMA weapon.

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Testing your patience is a "form" of difficulty :P. Sometimes I like that, but if it gets ridiculous like it is now ( more than 50 hours to complete the FIRST part of it) then that's where I draw the line :P.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Testing your patience is a "form" of difficulty :P. Sometimes I like that, but if it gets ridiculous like it is now ( more than 50 hours to complete the FIRST part of it) then that's where I draw the line :P.

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I just hope you didn't do all these hours in one day.. must be tired.. rest is important for the blue bar on our xp.. ;)

Is an Atma weapon completed in 6 hours worth more or less than an Atma weapon completed in 60 hours?

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Is an Atma weapon completed in 6 hours worth more or less than an Atma weapon completed in 60 hours?

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More, because you have had 54 hours to farm tomes to upgrade it =-)

(Assuming you had 60 hours of gaming time- if you don't then it's a difference between completing and not completing. You have to take into account the time value and opportunity costs)

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Do you people understand that for players like me that can only get the time to grind atma 5 hours a week, i will obtain my atma in like a month. THEN I have to geth 13500 myth. The rate I accumulate them now is something like 700-800 per week. This mean i'm gonna get Animus in like 6 month ++. This mean patch 2.3 and surely patch 2.4. This mean more quests about relic.

Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!! I so don't care that the quest is postpone. Will it be ever possible to finish the relic quests for atma / animus / novus for a casual player????? Is this weapon only for pure grinders and no lifers??? Because I can't see the end of it for myself

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Everyone please remember that it's not a race to get the damn weapons! Enjoy the game and get it when you get it. So delay or no delay, shouldn't impact your fun. Don't let the hardcore players tell you otherwise!

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

I just hope you didn't do all these hours in one day.. must be tired.. rest is important for the blue bar on our xp.. ;)

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Everquest 1, for my cleric relic, 36 hours straight camping Ragefire (boss needed in the epic chain). Then they changed it to spawn when needed :S Fun times as everyone accepted the huge camp times needed so instead of complaining we socialised. No, I couldnt do EQ1 style camps again XD

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Nothing to do with "time" they simply see not many people have gotten their animus, so they are taking the extra time to take all the feedback provided and make the next part of the Zodiac quest better.
I personally think this is a smart move. no need to rush and have more hot heads then we have now :P.

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Starlord, your signature is cracking me up.. I just keep watching.. and laughing haha

Feedback on Zodiak quest:

a. The difficulty in obtaining the atma's is the complete randomness of getting one. If there was a stacking echo buff that increased your % chance with every 20-30 fates that might be helpful so that some are not spending 40-60 hours on one atma alone.

b. My wife has given up on atma, she has spent more than 60 hours trying to find her first one.

c. Numerous people in many of the atma zones have spent 60h+ trying to find the one atma in that zone
d. I was lucky and grabbed 3 atma's within the first 1-3 fates in their respective zones

e. only once did I have to wait days for one to spawn (about 24 hours farming)

f. I accumulated ~200,000 seals farming atma, on average of 100-150 seals per fate that is 2000 fates
g. I am pretty perturbed at the fact that there is only a +2 bonus to my weapon after pounding out so many hours to get the myth and then another log to activate the book.

(part 2)
h. Furthermore, it's retarded to have the quest NPC say o, you want those worthless books? er no, please waste days of your life and give me 1500 myth for those.

I. AOE farming of 50 myth can be done with AOE classes and War tank in 5 min. This creates a disproportionate time advantage for those "non-AOE folk" who have to use duty finder because parties kick non-AOE classes who take a min 10-12 min per run plus the 20-60 min queue for another run. Let's see, AOE class, 1500 myth in 3 hours, non-AOE class using duty finder, 21 hours per book.

j. Use that same ratio 3:21 for AOE/non AOE class for all 9 books and you have 27 hours to 189 hours just for the myth farming alone.

k. While we are on the topic of AOE farming, AOE atma farming, if it's at all based on how many mobs you can hit, the AOE classes again comes out ahead.

I think the "fight a super hard battle to get your relic" is a much better model the "super easy but super long" model that they did with the atma weapons. I understand why they tried out the 2nd method though, Titan was so hard to pass for some people, they resorted to buying the runs. The result is about the same though: only a small percentage of people will get their relic at first but I prefer the 1st method because I can find a group to beat the fight and I will never touch the 2nd method. The 1st method also allows the option for people to buy their runs (the so called "Mercenary system") so you will actually have more people running around the weapons, which is even more reason to stick with this model. However, the first model does support "the elites" more than the "casuals."

Either way, I'm fine with either model, since they both will take most people a long time to get their weapons. I'm fine if they nerf the current atma model too as long as it doesn't turn into a "super easy, not that long" model, aka "the handout" model, that so many people are whining for.

I'm a casual and I'm not looking for the "handout mode" for Atma, but I truly want the feeling of progression with the quest. I'm not opposed to the quest taking 4-6 more months to complete.

What is so difficult for me is a whole play session goes by with my limited time-frame, and I have nothing to show for it and no feeling of accomplishment or progression.

I just want to feel like I'm working towards something, and not just randomly doing things.

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Originally Posted by SweDDishB

I'm a casual and I'm not looking for the "handout mode" for Atma, but I truly want the feeling of progression with the quest. I'm not opposed to the quest taking 4-6 more months to complete.

What is so difficult for me is a whole play session goes by with my limited time-frame, and I have nothing to show for it and no feeling of accomplishment or progression.

I just want to feel like I'm working towards something, and not just randomly doing things.

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This !!! I have a limited time to play in a week and if I go for a 4h session on the evening and I have nothing to show for it. It is very frustrating. Some say you can farm Titan X for 4h and don't get the clear but at least it wont be about luck, it's about skill.

Bottom line : A full game session with showing any progress is frustrating

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

This is code for we know the current system is awful and we want to make sure Novus isn't as equally bad so that we don't get turbo ragequits.

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By awful you mean we won't hand them out like in wow but people cry cause they have to invest time even when we made it soloable. Or u mean awful like - used an Ingenious solution which not only helps those leveling by putting the population back into the world and fates as well as shortening dungeon queues?

Love the short sighted kids that wow brought Into the genre.

If it's not obvious I love the quest and we need more like it. Only my main will have animus anytime soon but all jobs but one have atma ATM, working on the last one as I type this.

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

This !!! I have a limited time to play in a week and if I go for a 4h session on the evening and I have nothing to show for it. It is very frustrating. Some say you can farm Titan X for 4h and don't get the clear but at least it wont be about luck, it's about skill.

Bottom line : A full game session with showing any progress is frustrating

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Nah titan is about luck. U won't beat it if u queue with 7 other remedials. As for getting something for your playtime. Your choosing to do the atma quest. They aren't forcing you nor is their a clause in the Eula that says we have to provide you with a reward each time you play. It's the mindset fostered by the current generation of games due to the new mmoers making it necessary.

So my post isn't COMPLETELY negative. Not sure if your doing atmas as a group or solo... Nor am I sure if their is a difference in drop rate when it comes to contribution or number of people participating. What I do know is the longest it has taken me for one full set is about 2.5 days (this was playing 8-10 hours a day so roughly 25 hours) and it has been solo.

Don't get bored or frustrated and give up. U could quit just 1 fate short of your drop and the next time you do fates or log on have to start right over. The more time you can devote the better your chances. If your only doing an hour here or an hour there... It will be totally luck based and likely take ages.

(Love having to split up posts due to some pointless character limit though. I truly sympathize with people who post guides and such)

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Originally Posted by klepp0906

(Love having to split up posts due to some pointless character limit though. I truly sympathize with people who post guides and such)

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You can edit your original post to bypass the character limit.

I usually just post a thread. When I get the error message I cut out the extra text and post. Then edit post and paste the rest of it in there.

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Originally Posted by Saerk

Everyone should have to put the same amount of time into it. I don't care how long. The only reason this is even a two sided argument is because of people like you who got lucky, and people like me who are getting shafted

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Again
"Everyone should have to put the same amount of time into it."

No.

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Originally Posted by klepp0906

Love the short sighted kids that wow brought Into the genre.
If it's not obvious I love the quest and we need more like it. Only my main will have animus anytime soon but all jobs but one have atma ATM, working on the last one as I type this.

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Wow, and you call the other poster a "kid" you clearly are a kid to have this much time to farm these. in another post you said it took you 2.5 days at 8-10 hrs per day! I would kill for that kind of time. I need one more atma for my first atma weapon. A lot of us have 8am-5pm+ jobs, then kid stuff, so we maybe get a couple hours in the evening to work on this. So before you start calling people "kids" maybe you need to think about who you may be taking to. I wasted one of my 2 days off this weekend trying to finish this quest, I thought I could power through and finish it off, 12hrs later it sill didn't drop, THIS is why people like me are frustrated, nothing to show for a full day off from work gone.

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Originally Posted by Logo

Again
"Everyone should have to put the same amount of time into it."

No.

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Some variety based on luck can be fine. Having to find a low drop rate item, not once, but 12 times is just asking for trouble. Some people spending 12 hrs and others spending 100hrs is too much of a difference for something people have absolutely no control over whatsoever (RNG). And this is all just to get a new weapon skin, then you have to do the real (and lengthy) quest to actually power the thing up.

What's worse is that you have to do it all at one step. So you can't really do any myth farming beyond the first book until you have all 12 atma.

After finally completing the Animus today.

I honestly felt that the Myth farm was more of a grind than the FATEs (ATMA) even tho it took me 683 FATEs to obtain. For me the RNG is like digging for treasure, hoping the next hole gives up the shiny.

Whereas a predetermined number is, to me, like watching the clock at the last hour at work before the weekend. Or using the previous analogy, Having to intentionally dig 999 holes before you can dig the 1000th one which only contains the shiny.

Doing the actual books, where kinda fun. pretty much like another challenge log,

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

After finally completing the Animus today.

I honestly felt that the Myth farm was more of a grind than the FATEs (ATMA) even tho it took me 683 FATEs to obtain. For me the RNG is like digging for treasure, hoping the next hole gives up the shiny.

Whereas a predetermined number is, to me, like watching the clock at the last hour at work before the weekend. Or using the previous analogy, Having to intentionally dig 999 holes before you can dig the 1000th one which only contains the shiny.

Doing the actual books, where kinda fun. pretty much like another challenge log,

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Nyah this neko knows what's up meow.

got my animus a while ago, but this whole process is just dumb. requires virtually no skills and is just pure mindless grind that's just tedious. It's not as long but just as stupid as FFXI's relic.

also, the NPC saying worthless book but it'll cost you or w/e kind of ticked me off (because of the wording / how it was said)

Yoshiiii end this war that is atma and just tell the community that there will be a buff to drop rates in 2.3
D: 2.28 seems a bit early.
Alsooo if atma books were 1000 each then of course we'll be partying with new animooses.
Hopefully no future similar atma grind will be implemented in the zodiac quest line, atleast give us a few months before you drop another zombie grind Xc

Now that I'm actually doing this quest here's my feedback:

I LOVE the fact that it takes long time to do. This game does not have long-term goals like this enough.

I HATE... Really HATE the random nature of the quest. The truth is I would welcome a 100hr quest like this but ONLY if I could track my progression towards the goal as points, currency, number of leves you name it.
As it is you can put in a week of play time and get ZERO proof of progress. This and only this makes me feel like the time played was time wasted.

Simply adjusting the drop rate is lazy game design.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

How long would you have your job once your boss realized that most of your work gets delayed and that all those delays were caused by you not thinking ahead and properly planning it out?

Also how much feedback has there been to take into account?
1. People that don't have their atmas yet don't like grinding fates.
2. People don't like farming mythology tomestones for weapons, but are ok with it for gear.
3. People like bagels, but obviously forum mods do not.
4. People like big butts and they cannot lie.

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Unless the desired project must be changed due to feedback not for seen in the planning process. No planning can predict user feedback. They are doing a great job of building new content from feedback. The fact that it is delayed tells me they are listening, and trying to correct according to user feedback.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Gee I wonder why many people don't have an Animus let alone an Atma, surely it can't be because the whole RNG part was badly designed and implemented right from the start, this game is perfect and flawless after all, clearly it's must be the players' fault. At least it looks like all those good fellows screaming that there are other alternatives and to ignore the quest did convince people, seems like they did just that and ignored it.

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Well, when you're in Western La Noscea for Crab Atma from about 9am to about 8pm, with 10 minutes breaks in between, and still no Atma, then...yeah... Figure it out!

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Ok then i'm gonna say this. In theory, the majority of people must get what they want because by concept, more people will be happy.

For a video game, MMO, social and interactive and opinionfull gamers,

Why the producer don't give the majority what they want???? Even if the majority wants stupid things, the majority is always right!


Think about it carefully. Would it be THAT bad if they change the atma drop rate from 1% to 5%??? whould it be THAT bad if they changed the cost from 1500 to 100??

do this and you will never see a thread complaining about atma again.

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People would have 9 Animus weapons lol...

I think SE wants us to focus heavily on one job.

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I think SE wants us to focus heavily on one job.

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I'm just killing time on Dragoon since there's no other that appealed to me better at the time. The job I want to focus on isn't in game yet. XP

That said, I play Monster Hunter. The atma FATE grind did not bother me all that much since I'm used to going through obnoxious fights over and over and over again to get that one 2% drop rare item for a particular monster and several others just to complete an armor set along with weapon upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

People would have 9 Animus weapons lol...

I think SE wants us to focus heavily on one job.

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This right here...I couldn't agree more. When people start to have all 9 animus it takes away from the appeal of the weapon. The same thing happened with the original relic. I think they should leave the quest as it is. I don't want to see 1000 people in Mor Dhona all with their relic animus

i don't mind the atma quest besides 2 facts.

1. they should not include low level fates in the farm. beating on lvl 3 fungar's with my relic zenith weapon doesn't seem to me like anything that should be used for high end gear.

2. i have 2 atma's and i will not be upgrading either to anubis anytime soon. why? why should i when the leviathan weapon(i already own) is better stats wise than the upgraded anubis weapon would be? if they are going to put in a long term project like the atma/anubis upgrade quest it should involve the toughest content in the game and have the best stats. to me it's like the original relic where it needed salts and mythril's from av and cc. those were drops from the highest raids in the game and needed to get the best weapon in the game. make the anubis require something from second coil along with the rest of the quest and have it be the best weapon for the time being.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

This is code for we know the current system is awful and we want to make sure Novus isn't as equally bad so that we don't get turbo ragequits.

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Pathetic casuals...