This is a really disturbing possibility. THE deciding factor for me to come to FFXIV was to support an MMO whose devs I felt I could trust to not turn it into a cash shop mess.
2.2 Retainers via Microtransactions
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03-20-2014, 08:03 AMNaunet
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03-20-2014, 08:22 AMWelsper59
Meh, they should just get rid of the idea completely. 2 retainers is more than enough. I'd rather not support stubborn hoarders that cry about paid extras that don't hurt the game or the method of progression in the most remotely meaningful sense. This coming from a hoarder myself, mind you. I'm just not overly stubborn about getting rid of things.
If the complaints truly come from the sense that the game is P2P, and that this just opens up fears of meaningful micro transactions, they shouldn't be bothered at all by the possibility of it just being canceled entirely (meaning you're not losing anything, you just won't gain it... like everyone else). -
03-20-2014, 08:48 AMXaimera
I hope they don't add Retainers as micro-transactions I rly don't think we need it.
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03-20-2014, 09:01 AMYshnal
I completely agree with the OP and, as I said in another thread, I don't see this as very honest. They make us keep some items sitting in our retainers until they flag them as storeable in the armoire (retroactively, instead of on the same patch that they're introduced) and then they make us pay real money for more retainer space? I don't know what to think.
If I pay a monthly sub I expect to be able to obtain everything in-game, even if I have to do a very long quest or whatever. These kind of microtransactions are a no-no for me. -
03-20-2014, 09:20 AMMusashidon
that moment people realize p2p only means that you pay to play it nothing more. cash shops are part of all games be it f2p p2p or console games. paying to play a game never meant you get everything in game it just meant you have to pay to play it.
yep posted it here to cause it's still funny xD -
03-20-2014, 09:39 AMYshnalThat attitude is what brought us the "amazing" DLCs in single player games (including day one DLCs), for instance. And we all know how good the vast majority of them are in regards to quality & content VS price. It's sad to see all MMOs going that route too, including this one that looked promising in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashidon
There was a time when people had some standards regarding games, both when developing them and when buying them. -
03-20-2014, 09:49 AMFelisEven if it was known since 2010 that we can someday get an extra retainer for 1$/month?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yshnal
Would you also do a very long quest for server transfer? -
03-20-2014, 09:50 AMMusashidonstandards change, there is nothing wrong with dlc or cash shops they help fund the games and companys you so hold dear but it's nice to know you couldn't care less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yshnal
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03-20-2014, 09:56 AMNaunetThe $15 per month I already pay helps fund the game I hold dear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashidon
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03-20-2014, 10:01 AMLicusGet over it. Games have microtransactions now. WoW got away with being P2P and having a cash shop and now other companies are following the trend. These companies are businesses and they want to make money. If you don't like it, leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
It's just an extra retainer. One less coffee from starbucks a month can buy you four extra retainers. QQ more when there is something worth complaining about, like a boosted character to level cap for $50. -
03-20-2014, 10:05 AMYshnalLots of things changed since 2010. I don't think that I've to tell you the whole story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Actually, because I care I say that. To give you an example, I really liked BioWare but they eventually took some decisions that made some of their games not really up to the standards that they always holded highly. That disappointed a lot of people in the process, and hurted the name of the company to the point that they had to adapt and make a move. Even then, the trust that they had is not the same as it was before, and they'll have to regain people's faith in the future. Standards might change, but when they're unjustified they're usually bad changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashidon
Companies have to get money after all, that's one of the main reasons why they exist. But there's a limit to what some of us can accept in regards to the hard balance between greed and good will. That's why EA and ActiVision aren't the most loved of the publishers out there, and the same can be said about other companies like Nexon and Co. The situation here regarding retainers is one of these changes that seem uncalled for, besides for pure greed. And some of us don't really understand the change and hope that SE listens (as they've done in the past). -
03-20-2014, 10:11 AMNaunetWell, certainly with that attitude, consumers will never get a deal that's good for them. I'm sure the companies love you and people like you, though, who are willing to accept every little extra charge they throw at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licus
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03-20-2014, 10:14 AMXellos2099
Companies have to get money after all, that's one of the main reasons why they exist. But there's a limit to what some of us can accept in regards to the hard balance between greed and good will. That's why EA and ActiVision aren't the most loved of the publishers out there, and the same can be said about other companies like Nexon and Co. The situation here regarding retainers is one of these changes that seem uncalled for, besides for pure greed. And some of us don't really understand the change and hope that SE listens (as they've done in the past).[/QUOTE]
I honestly don;t see the big deal.... back in xi we has to pay extra dollar for every mule and garden mule, how is it any different? -
03-20-2014, 10:16 AMMusashidondoesn't sound like it to me, all you're spouting is i deserve everything i pay a flat fee how dare they try to make more money to make more content for a game i supposedly like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
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03-20-2014, 10:17 AMDooLook on the bright side, at least you pay a lot less when it goes f2p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Unless you're like the many that gets addicted to buying vanity stuff or someone that rmts already. Then again, your money gets you a lot less than a P2P game. -
03-20-2014, 10:20 AMFelisYes, but it was never exactly out of plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yshnal
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...yopemeopw.htmlQuote:
Retainers
As before, and until the release of Version 2.0, players will be entitled to employ two Retainers at no charge.
Read up on the details of FINAL FANTASY XIV Version 2.0.
* The fee structure for after the release of FINAL FANTASY XIV Version 2.0 (including those of retainers) is unconfirmed at the time of writing.
This was from december 2011 before they started the p2p. Like you can see here, they keep the possibility to sell extra retainers after 2.0 launch. -
03-20-2014, 10:20 AMLicusIt's a matter of picking and choosing your fights. I unsubed from wow when they released the level 90 character boost. I did not like what blizzard did; yet I understood why they did it. I left because it was not palatable to me and I was not bitter at Blizzard for trying to make more money. It's what companies do and SE is not going to lose many subscribers over a dollar retainer. SE will likely get a revenue bump from the side service. Also, in all honesty, you have to be a severe hoarder to need a third retainer. I don't imagine many people NEEDING a third retainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
If you want to plant your feet in the ground over a dollar for extra storage space, go ahead. Just seems like a lot of effort for a tiny insignificant addition SE is adding their game service. -
03-20-2014, 10:22 AMDhex
It doesn't say anywhere that the service is purchase via Mogstation in his interview.
"Yoshida: We hope to offer some items for sale, but nothing that will affect game balance.
>>It seems that a lot of users are interested in sales of Fantasia (the item to change your character model), so how about that?
Yoshida: We're going to be talking about that in the LIVE producer letter on the 21st. Also, we're planning to introduce the ability to purchase an additional service which increases the number of available retainers. It'll be even more valuable with the additional retainer systems available with the patch which will make retainers more useful than ever.
-----"
The interviewer's question leads into the subject of items - never does he explicitly say that Fantasia or Retainers will be a transaction made via Mogstation.
Retainers are a hired service in-game that you get for free for what you did for the Scions. It could be that the transaction he is discussing in the interview is made in game for gil or tokens - Mog Locker was similar to this in FFXI - you purchased a Locker (additional inventory) for Imperial Coins which you could trade points in to acquire (Grand Company Seals?). Similarly he does not mention Fantasia as a microtransaction - just that they will be talking about them in the next letter.
So I think the micro-transactions arguing and the P2W ridiculousness is premature.
You are being alarmists.
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The irony would be him announcing that Fantasia and additional Retainers are in-game gil transactions and the forum erupting with threads about how "Square is too stupid to charge money for additional services game is going to fail" - because you know that's how people here act. Ever since Beta - P2P will fail! F2P is trash! P2W is lame I will quit!
Keep on coming up with lots of reasons not to play at all; instead you can sit on this forum and argue and pout at each other over things none of you can control. -
03-20-2014, 10:22 AMFumijj_GahFFXI was a masterpiece, money welcome, ARR is not. They wanted to move game's template and choose the ordinary way all post-WoW MMORPG are following, so microtransactions on retainers have no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekodar
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03-20-2014, 10:24 AMNaytoSounds like you don't know how publishing budgets work...Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzle
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03-20-2014, 10:25 AMSusanohConsidering the amount of people who willingly embrace getting low quality updates for their money, that boosted character probably isn't too far off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licus
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03-20-2014, 10:30 AMYshnalI don't see the big deal... Back in the day some people paid to have slaves, how is it any different now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos2099
If something is not ok, then it's not ok. As I mentioned, if we have issues with how the armoire works, then why do we have to pay an extra on top of our sub (even if it's 0.01€) to "fix" it? And what about the ventures? It sounds pretty greedy to me. Would I have any problem paying for it? No. Do I see it justified? Nope. Would I actually pay for it? No way. Would it make me think twice when I had to renew my suscription? Yes, it would be a little something that I would have in mind. Would I like it if they changed their minds and avoided that kind of microtransactions? For sure, it would reafirm and justify my faith in Yoshi and everyone else in the dev team, the same faith that I had when I bought the game. -
03-20-2014, 10:33 AMcottiThis is gonna reach Godwin's soon...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yshnal
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03-20-2014, 10:34 AMSwagcityDungeon Fantasy: A Restriction Reborn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzle
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03-20-2014, 10:37 AMLicusComing soon! A service you can buy to remove lockouts and point caps!Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagcity
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03-20-2014, 10:45 AMYshnalSorry, I should have used a medieval example that I had in mind better than that one, haha. But nevermind, now it stays there :3Quote:
Originally Posted by cotti
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03-20-2014, 10:48 AMAmberionPlease look forward to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Licus
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03-20-2014, 11:17 AMmyahele
Hopefully they'll sell fantasia via mog station. It'll be annoying that they'll add this and not fantasia (something ppl have been wanting for months and willing to play)
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03-20-2014, 11:34 AMNamasu
I think selling extra retainers is a bit too much unless it's a one time fee and not a monthly subscription addon. I thought that they were gonna make addon services that would allow us to access retainers and maybe send chat through smartphone and tablet apps on the go. Many people and I are willing to pay for that extra mobile convenience and that's all fair game. What ever happen to that?
At the end of the day, paying extra for inventory with money in a sub game just doesn't feel well to me. -
03-20-2014, 11:40 AMNaunetI feel a need to draw the line against putting in-game functions and features behind a pay wall. Server transfers, race changes, and similar external transactions? Go for it. I might even stomach the occasional mount or pet (but only if the game has a large number of options already). But blocking full use of in-game functions like that is not okay in a subscription-based MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licus
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03-20-2014, 11:45 AMFelisIt don't block anything. The first 2 are still free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
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03-20-2014, 11:59 AMNaunet
They are not free - they cost $15 per month. And that $15 is apparently not enough to be granted full access to the game's functions and features? No, I disagree with that sentiment entirely.
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03-20-2014, 12:02 PMTupsiYes it is. What can't you do with the initial 15$ a month? As I'm legacy I know for a fact I can do everything in this game for my $10. You're paying for extra - not basic functionality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
EXTRA functionality. -
03-20-2014, 12:25 PMRavinousKurohiAfter 157 posts, someone touches the damage that can happen. What can happen is someone can throw down money to instantly have many more market sale slots. This gives this seller an advantage over sellers who don't buy more as the person with the most slots can then buy up and corner the market on certain items then control the price because they have a monopoly. Two things would happen then: 1) Only the really rich can buy the better items and the average player is locked out. (I was there in the early days of FFXI when you couldn't buy potions except for insane prices on the market) 2) The economy on the server would be highly unbalanced and SE would have to put in another huge money sync like the original prices of housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhound
There are people who play MMOs to win at the business side of the game and this would be P2W for them since their goal is to get as much money as they can and/or control the economy. -
03-20-2014, 12:42 PMXellos2099How is this any different from creating a second character or third or fourth and just lvl up to the point u got retainer???Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinousKurohi
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03-20-2014, 12:44 PMXellos2099
And seriously, stuff do not sell..... for the past 2 week i am selling the same 8 item because of constant undercutting
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03-20-2014, 12:49 PMSusanohThe idea is that one might expect the cost of a subscription to cover any quality of life upgrades that are introduced. Where a free to play game might throw extra inventory slots up in the cash shop (and they often do), a subscription based game which is already being funded by players monthly may offer them through some sort of quest instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
Both charging a subscription and then dangling the same quality of life incentives as free to play games is just double dipping. It's great if SE if a good chunk of their player base is willing to throw money at them for both a subscription and free to play style microtransactions, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good value for the consumer. -
03-20-2014, 12:51 PMMurakumoMillenniumIt's not any different, considering you have to pay a higher monthly sub to get access to more than one character. More money = more retainers in both cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos2099
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03-20-2014, 01:13 PMAmyNeudaiz
Look, I'm going to bite the bullet and say what needs to be said.
We already have access to 16 retainers per server. You can say, oh but you can't mail to alts! Well guess what, that already has SEVERAL work arounds. A trusted friend, access to a FC chest, dual boxing multiple accounts (which DOUBLES your already large number of retainers!). People are blatantly ignoring that NOTHING is keeping someone from buying and alt account, leveling it enough to get retainers and just mailing stuff between the accounts to have an astounding THIRTY TWO retainers.
They are selling CONVENIENCE. NOT pay to win. I don't agree with it either and I'm sorry but you guys make such bulls**t reasons to be against this. -
03-20-2014, 01:19 PMXellos2099Collector edition have access to 8 character per server with no extra fee..Quote:
Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium