Now that leves will be gone from our main exp function...

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Originally Posted by Wynn

since when is mob grinding skillful?

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Since XI. Duh!

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Originally Posted by Dubont

goodbye leve onry noobs. Hello skillful mob grind parties.

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it takes alot of skill for a party of people to go kill mobs that you can kill solo. you can kill a level 60 mob on your 50 by yourself. that's what will be grinded on by an entire party.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

since when is mob grinding skillful?

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Mob grinding isn't as skillful as the amount of time it lets you learn your class. That's all leveling is, is learning your class, basically.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Mob grinding isn't as skillful as the amount of time it lets you learn your class. That's all leveling is, is learning your class, basically.

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But when the fights play out completely differently than end-game battles (NM fights) how exactly does that allow you to learn your chosen class? I'd argue that in this game, you can only really learn your class after 50, or by fighting lots of mini NMs at or below r30.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

But when the fights play out completely differently than end-game battles (NM fights) how exactly does that allow you to learn your chosen class? I'd argue that in this game, you can only really learn your class after 50, or by fighting lots of mini NMs at or below r30.

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When you use an ability or set of abilities over and over you get to learn exactly what they do and what situations they're good for, though, doing the endgame stuff will help you REFINE what you learned, you still learn a great deal actually leveling...except with this current system...button mashing is not something that helps you learn....unless you're playing a scrolling shooter...button spam ftl.

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Originally Posted by Gath

When you use an ability or set of abilities over and over you get to learn exactly what they do and what situations they're good for, though, doing the endgame stuff will help you REFINE what you learned, you still learn a great deal actually leveling...except with this current system...button mashing is not something that helps you learn....unless you're playing a scrolling shooter...button spam ftl.

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So how is grinding open world mobs that are incredibly easy any different from fighting leve mobs that are incredibly easy? In the current system (with leves as they are today) it takes 5 weeks to get to 50 if all you do is fail leves. That's plenty of time to learn what all of your abilities do. So again, how is grinding open world mobs any different than leve grinding?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

So how is grinding open world mobs that are incredibly easy any different from fighting leve mobs that are incredibly easy? In the current system (with leves as they are today) it takes 5 weeks to get to 50 if all you do is fail leves. That's plenty of time to learn what all of your abilities do. So again, how is grinding open world mobs any different than leve grinding?

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I never said that grinding mobs should be extremely easy, I am referring to when they change everything, mashing buttons right now just teaches you how to mash buttons, there are no actual stable algorithms for the mechanics, the stats aren't where they should be, but when the game finally has all that fixed, then, the abilities, which will practically be new/redefined will need learning, and grinding on mobs that are harder than easy will help with that. Even the few NMs we have only offer any sort of learning through button mashing, and again, all you learn to do is mash buttons...

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Originally Posted by Gath

I never said that grinding mobs should be extremely easy, I am referring to when they change everything, mashing buttons right now just teaches you how to mash buttons, there are no actual stable algorithms for the mechanics, the stats aren't where they should be, but when the game finally has all that fixed, then, the abilities, which will practically be new/redefined will need learning, and grinding on mobs that are harder than easy will help with that. Even the few NMs we have only offer any sort of learning through button mashing, and again, all you learn to do is mash buttons...

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Sorry. That wasn't particularly aimed at you, it was a general question towards the community, since that seems to be the majority opinion. That people that get to 50 in 5 weeks by grinding leves somehow know less about their class than those that grind open world mobs.

IMO there are battles that require skill in this game outside of NM battles, it's just that the devs have squandered any possible challenging gameplay by limiting us (via a glass ceiling) to fighting mobs that are only 10 ranks above us. Case in point, go take a few friends and fight a wolf 20 ranks above your own. But that will never happen in an open world grind party because it takes too damn long to kill with absolutely no benefit for the extra effort. IMO that's the biggest problem with the 'battle system'. It's not so much that the system is broken, it's more that we don't have any reason to use the skills we earn until after r50, generally.

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Originally Posted by Gath

This is the biggest thign for me :D I like parties...and mob grinding :o

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What's keeping you from doing it?

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

What's keeping you from doing it?

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Mob distribution, respawn times, 10 rank SP limit on Mob's, not enough Camps and so on. Plus most of the community wouldn't bother as Leves have spoilt them so if Mobs don't give 500Sp then they aren't interested.

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

personaly, i don't know what to expect.
we know that leve-linking will award less SP, but not how much less.
at the same time tho we'll be able to get SP awards for completing leves solo.
one thing is sure, group leves will award less, but that's not the only change we'll see in 1.18, there will be the raid dungeons that might just give us the right amount of SP we need to level at a decent pace, then the NPC quests that will also reward SP with 1.18.

i think SE just wants to draw the attention of us to all aspects of the game as quests, leves, grinding & raids.
which i think is a great idea, tbh. all i did the past months were leves & crafting (and from time to time NMs.)
i didn't touch many NPC quests yet aswell.

i don't belive leveling will get slower, just more entertaining at last.

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This I will agree with. It seems many of us, including myself, havn't disversified MMO playing. From what my friend has mentioned about WOW is that you get exp from doing quests? Which seems a heck of a lot more fun than just grinding at mobs. And it just seems that the devs are trying to get people out and have fun (which is what a game should be about in the first place). And maybe nerfing leve linking is a way to do that. To get people to diversify?

If they are truely going to be giving SP for doing quests and completion of leves...I would hope that maybe they would add more story and lore behind these? (I know everyone hates this reference but like I said I don't know of many other games other than WOW that my friend told me about). She mentioned that there is some story behind the quests that you run around doing? So maybe they will have some sort of quests that tie into each other to put some more meat into the game? IDK...That would be a great idea to make leveling more enjoyable instead of "Here help me kill X because X camp is being over-run"...maybe a few little short clips to go along with it? That would be fun to me and make leveling more enjoyable...Just a thought :)

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Originally Posted by Gath

I never said that grinding mobs should be extremely easy, I am referring to when they change everything, mashing buttons right now just teaches you how to mash buttons, there are no actual stable algorithms for the mechanics, the stats aren't where they should be, but when the game finally has all that fixed, then, the abilities, which will practically be new/redefined will need learning, and grinding on mobs that are harder than easy will help with that. Even the few NMs we have only offer any sort of learning through button mashing, and again, all you learn to do is mash buttons...

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IN regards to this converstation that took place...
To me, partying does help you learn about your job and how to work it...
The downfall however is, it doesn't seem like in this game you need a whole lot of skill in order to fight...I mean the debuffs on THM and CON seem kind of useless from what I've tried to do with me and my husband...it just seems easier to have my husband just tank and spank while I spam cure and the occasional "boom" magic sparklies...

I would think they would need to actually make some monsters similar to STR and weaknesses in XI (it's the only games I know). Where you would for example maybe have Crawlers weak to Dia since they have an enormous amount of DEF. Then stack it with some of the debuffs to help with the HP depletion while still having someone hold the hate and others doing damage to bring the HP down quicker... instead of just having the mob go down in the blink of an eye.

It just seems Mob toughness and weakness is extremely unbalanced in this game (from what I have played of it so far)...
Or it may just be me and I havn't gotten to some other areas with tougher mobs? IDK, pleaes correct me if I am mistaken.

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

It just seems Mob toughness and weakness is extremely unbalanced in this game (from what I have played of it so far)...
Or it may just be me and I havn't gotten to some other areas with tougher mobs? IDK, pleaes correct me if I am mistaken.

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That is THE problem imo, it's a balancing issue. SP is capped at a 10 rank difference as if mobs of equal rank are relatively difficult to kill, but they're not, they die if you look at them cross-eyed. So one of two things needs to happen, they need to knock 10 ranks off of every mob to bring mob rank in line with player rank, or they need to raise the rank difference cap for SP.

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

What's keeping you from doing it?

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I do grind mobs, my ARC hit 50 by grinding on mobs at different levels, barely did leves, took about 3.5 weeks to hit 50 that way.

new post from YoshiP about the changes being made for the guildleve's etc. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post208615