Sex between the Races Lore?

Massively curious what a miqau ra would look like lol

Well, going by the half-breeds we know in the game (Hilda and Arenvald), they'd be mostly of the mother's race, maybe with a trait from their father, like Hilda's ears.

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Originally Posted by Cereza

Massively curious what a miqau ra would look like lol

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So far, there’s no evidence on miqos being able to successfully breed with anything else despite the fact they sleep around a lot.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

So far, there’s no evidence on miqos being able to successfully breed with anything else despite the fact they sleep around a lot.

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Baut implies that he's expecting (lots of) children from his new relationship with J'dyalani. J'dyalani doesn't contradict this (other than the usual "oh my, how bold").

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Baut implies that he's expecting (lots of) children from his new relationship with J'dyalani. J'dyalani doesn't contradict this (other than the usual "oh my, how bold").

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You might've gotten me there, but I don't think a response like "I don't believe our species are biologically compatible with each other" is very romantic or natural to say in that scenario. Also I'm too stubborn to back down from my point.

There's no word on cross miqo babies despite the fact that there are miqo'te prostitutes everywhere and no birth control.

May not be the best person for this, but i believe magic and alchemy cover as birth-control in 14.

I think Koji actually addressed this before. One reason could be that while it is possible for hybrid offspring, a successful pregnancy is quite rare.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

There's no word on cross miqo babies despite the fact that there are miqo'te prostitutes everywhere and no birth control.

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Definitely a giant leap to assume there's no birth control. Even discounting SinSilverwing's suggestion of fantasy birth control, the medieval setting would still provide many possible methods. You can check out The History of Birth Control on Wikipedia for many examples of pre-modern birth control, and even if they don't all work in the FFXIV setting, I'm sure the natives found their own methods. The game itself may not delve deeply into the methods the prostitutes use - but why would it?

Prostitutes have VERY strong motivation to avoid becoming pregnant - it's tough enough to make a living without having to care for children at the same time.

I think my hint of sarcasm went unnoticed.

Still not at ShB yet, but I’ve been poking a bit on the lore for the Gwiber mounts out of curiosity and the description on the Fey Gwiber described them as an attempt to “recreate the fantastical beast known as a dragon”, which is making the possibility that we’ve had dragons poking around the First more plausible. Obviously, it’s possible races just came up with dragons independently just like how many wildly different irl cultures independently came up with their own overlapping concepts of dragons. But given how much the Gwibers all look actual dragons, including the fae gwiber whose origins are from a Ronkan sorcerer, it seems like they based in reality.

Which means Auri being possibly descended from dragons still perfectly on the table. Time flows differently in each Shard, and for all we know, the Drahn came into being because some member of the First Brood could have messed around there at some point. We still have two members (Azdaja and Vrtra) unaccounted for, after all.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Still not at ShB yet, but I’ve been poking a bit on the lore for the Gwiber mounts out of curiosity and the description on the Fey Gwiber described them as an attempt to “recreate the fantastical beast known as a dragon”, which is making the possibility that we’ve had dragons poking around the First more plausible. Obviously, it’s possible races just came up with dragons independently just like how many wildly different irl cultures independently came up with their own overlapping concepts of dragons. But given how much the Gwibers all look actual dragons, including the fae gwiber whose origins are from a Ronkan sorcerer, it seems like they based in reality.

Which means Auri being possibly descended from dragons still perfectly on the table. Time flows differently in each Shard, and for all we know, the Drahn came into being because some member of the First Brood could have messed around there at some point. We still have two members (Azdaja and Vrtra) unaccounted for, after all.

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I can't remember how it was brought up, but it was suggested that Au Ra came about due to Allagan meddling with and making chimeras (possibly with dragons?). I'll have to find where this was talked about it was super interesting.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Still not at ShB yet, but I’ve been poking a bit on the lore for the Gwiber mounts out of curiosity and the description on the Fey Gwiber described them as an attempt to “recreate the fantastical beast known as a dragon”, which is making the possibility that we’ve had dragons poking around the First more plausible. Obviously, it’s possible races just came up with dragons independently just like how many wildly different irl cultures independently came up with their own overlapping concepts of dragons. But given how much the Gwibers all look actual dragons, including the fae gwiber whose origins are from a Ronkan sorcerer, it seems like they based in reality.

Which means Auri being possibly descended from dragons still perfectly on the table. Time flows differently in each Shard, and for all we know, the Drahn came into being because some member of the First Brood could have messed around there at some point. We still have two members (Azdaja and Vrtra) unaccounted for, after all.

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The writers have put into place to say that au ra are not related to dragons. They've already mentioned the horns being used for different things and au ra having exaggerated sexual dimorphism where instead dragons have a purely aesthetic gender and are capable of reproducing asexually (and also hatch from eggs). Also I don't remember the fae gwiber being associated with the Ronkan sorcerer. Amaro were created by a Ronkan sorcerer, but those are a different thing entirely.

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Originally Posted by Cereza

I can't remember how it was brought up, but it was suggested that Au Ra came about due to Allagan meddling with and making chimeras (possibly with dragons?). I'll have to find where this was talked about it was super interesting.

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I don't remember this being suggested anywhere, but this would not be possible on the First. To our knowledge the Allagans had no access to it.

It's more likely that au ra are their own thing that popped into existence the same way as the other races rather than have a convoluted origin story. The mental gymnastics needed to rectify a draconic or Allagan origin that also works in other realities where neither exist doesn't justify that story.

To be fair, the devs take an almost transcendentalist approach to the game's lore and writing. If some small details from the past are bothersome, then they are ignored or discarded. I wouldn't go as far to say that we can all cling to whatever speculation we want, because some of it is clearly a bridge too far, but until there's something concrete laid out in the game, then a lot of avenues remain open.

I loved theorizing about Au Ra origins, particularly during Stormblood after getting to see Sui-no-Sato, Shisui of the Violet Tides, and Azim Steppe. My head churned up with thoughts of them being Allagan experimentation on super soldiers, in a similar vein to the Ixali, leaving them to their own devices after Azys Lla/Dalamud were torn out of what's now The Burn. After Shadowbringers had The Drahn on The First though... it takes a lot of reworking. How, what, why? etc.

Now my sort of working idea is that they're a machination of the Ascians to create a people who can excel at living in The Void(working through empires born for planetwide manipulation Allagans/Ronkans). Horns rather than ears for better vibration detection. Eyes with prominent limbal rings and therefore more Limbal Stem Cells to keep the eyes healthy and working, even in low light conditions with dense atmosphere. Their eyes used to make me think they might be alien, even.

It gets even more crazy when you start to try to piece in the Hotogo tribe in relation to all possible timelines from the Alexander series raids. Alexander eventually goes back in time and releases Mide and Dayan(or perhaps their offspring) to start the Hotogo tribe, so that they can be reborn many centuries later to enact the time loop that results in the raid series. Since Alexander can move across time and space, and we know from Twinning that this is ultimately how they rebuilt a bootleg version of Alexander, with some Omega tech filling in the gaps, to move the entire Crystal Tower back in time and across the rift, it may be that Mide and Dayan did something similar with the real Alexander to seed the other shards/all possible timelines with Au Ra(granted they are only Xaela, and there are clearly Raen on The First). It's fun to make stuff up. :) No need to avoid anything convoluted. A lot of story elements in this game are convoluted.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The writers have put into place to say that au ra are not related to dragons. They've already mentioned the horns being used for different things and au ra having exaggerated sexual dimorphism where instead dragons have a purely aesthetic gender and are capable of reproducing asexually (and also hatch from eggs). Also I don't remember the fae gwiber being associated with the Ronkan sorcerer. Amaro were created by a Ronkan sorcerer, but those are a different thing entirely.

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I think you actually mean “the writers have put in place to say that Au Ra are a darn enigma and nobody knows wtf they are”. :p

There is literally nothing confirming one way or another, and all irl asexually reproducing species are capable of sexual reproduction because generally sexual reproduction is better for maintaining genetic diversity as opposed to a bunch of genetic clones. But then, logically speaking, Middy’s kids should all be clones of him but they aren’t, nor are any of their children (though clones of each other, maybe). They even take mates and likely have their unique offspring from here.

As for the Fae Gwiber description: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/F...TfIe4xhOlc0RND

While I definitely accidentally conflated it with the Amaro description, my point still stands some sorcerer tried to recreate a dragon with it. Could just be a standard legend of a winged reptile, could be a dragon actually popped up in the First at some point.

And besides, even if the Au Ra have distinctly non-draconic traits like the size differences and the horns as ears, considering how insanely diverse dragons are (heck, some breeds look like dinosaurs and Tarasque is literally a big turtle that is apparently a high-ranking dragon; and this is to say nothing if the various dragon-like scalekin that are NOT dragons), I don’t think it’s out of the question for an entire lineage to develop those features somehow over time (and especially if they are able to crossbreed with man).

In quick response to other replies, the while Allagan chimera theory, while pretty cool, is kinda shot down by the Wind-Up Odin minion’s description where Odin’s sword apparently came from an Auri warrior, so Auri already existed way before the Allagan Empire was a thing.

Voidsent, while an interesting headcanon, is even less connected than dragons because it’s never stated or hinted at anywhere in game. Only old concept art had “demonic race” for some sheets and the one concept that actually ended up being the final product was titled “Dragon_Race”.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

I think you actually mean “the writers have put in place to say that Au Ra are a darn enigma and nobody knows wtf they are”. :p

There is literally nothing confirming one way or another, and all irl asexually reproducing species are capable of sexual reproduction because generally sexual reproduction is better for maintaining genetic diversity as opposed to a bunch of genetic clones. But then, logically speaking, Middy’s kids should all be clones of him but they aren’t, nor are any of their children (though clones of each other, maybe). They even take mates and likely have their unique offspring from here.

As for the Fae Gwiber description: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/F...TfIe4xhOlc0RND

While I definitely accidentally conflated it with the Amaro description, my point still stands some sorcerer tried to recreate a dragon with it. Could just be a standard legend of a winged reptile, could be a dragon actually popped up in the First at some point.

And besides, even if the Au Ra have distinctly non-draconic traits like the size differences and the horns as ears, considering how insanely diverse dragons are (heck, some breeds look like dinosaurs and Tarasque is literally a big turtle that is apparently a high-ranking dragon; and this is to say nothing if the various dragon-like scalekin that are NOT dragons), I don’t think it’s out of the question for an entire lineage to develop those features somehow over time (and especially if they are able to crossbreed with man).

In quick response to other replies, the while Allagan chimera theory, while pretty cool, is kinda shot down by the Wind-Up Odin minion’s description where Odin’s sword apparently came from an Auri warrior, so Auri already existed way before the Allagan Empire was a thing.

Voidsent, while an interesting headcanon, is even less connected than dragons because it’s never stated or hinted at anywhere in game. Only old concept art had “demonic race” for some sheets and the one concept that actually ended up being the final product was titled “Dragon_Race”.

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Unfortunately that item description only states, "A popular >>>theory<<< is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate."

So not even that is concrete. :3 The speculation continues!

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Unfortunately that item description only states, "A popular >>>theory<<< is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate."

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In fact, we know this theory to not be true - at least, not exactly. Odin would not have acquired the blade - he would have been acquired BY the blade. Zantetsuken is the true primal, as we discovered in the Odin trial quests. We also later learned that Zantetsuken was one of the weapons created in Baldesion Arsenal. It's been a while since I ran through the Baldesion Arsenal quests, but I believe that it was stated that the Arsenal was created by the Allagans. So, in order of appearance: Allagans -> Arsenal -> Zantetsuken. This means that the Auri warrior in the legend probably does not predate the Allagan Empire.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

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Ah, but we HAVE had real dragons! Dinosaurs! :)

I'm being flippant, but it's likely the case that the widespread dragon legends likely have do with the fact that dinosaur bones can be found pretty much all over the world.

In regards to kujoestars's remark that all irl creatures that reproduce asexually also reproduce sexually, consider that FFXIV dragons are VERY unlike irl creatures. Irl creatures need sexual reproduciton in order to mutate and evolve over generations - but FFXIV dragons mutate and evolve within their own (considerably long) individual lifespans. This could well negate the evolutionary advantage that sexual reproduction brings to the table.

It's worth noting, though, that in spite of this, dragons for some reason choose to be gendered, and choose to pair off into mated pairs (such as Tiamat and Bahamut). Whether these mated pairs actually do reproduce sexually, or only do it for companionship is unknown.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Unfortunately that item description only states, "A popular >>>theory<<< is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate."

So not even that is concrete. :3 The speculation continues!

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Evidently though, Odyn’s been that far so there’s credence to Auri already existing before the Allagan Empire did. XD

Even if they were Allagan creations though, I would think dragons crossed with Hyur to be more likely because their appearance is more obviously like dragons. No one ever calls them demons, and no Voidsent have scales like theirs. The tails, however, do look a lot like some tails used on various dragons (the spaded tail definitely looks like a thinner version of Mount Form Midgardsormer’s, I noticed whenever I’m riding him). Also worth noting after checking so photos on all confirmed voidsent that none of them have tails like Au Ra (the ones with spaded tails have them completely smooth while more lizard-like tails all look segmented rather than scaled). Some horn textures are similar, but the same applies to dragons and many creatures with horns. The only one I can distinctly see scales on is Muud Suud, and even then, the type and arrangement isn’t quite the same (though they are notably created from summoning voidsent into the corpses of fallen Highlander and Hellsguard). Dahrak do interestingly have their horns positioned similarly to Au Ra though, but they are notably also possessed and then horribly mutated dragon corpses.

While these all make for interesting speculation, I feel like the emphasis on Auri looking at least outwardly draconic and nothing about looking demonic makes Voidsent a LOT less likely.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

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I did say this is Final Fantasy, didn’t I? >;P

I also mentioned it could be they just came up with it the same way individual cultures irl did as well, but because dragons exist in FFXIV and the powerful ones could travel between worlds (and thus possibly world hop), that leaves the possibility of some member of the First Brood at least showing up and providing inspiration.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

In fact, we know this theory to not be true - at least, not exactly. Odin would not have acquired the blade - he would have been acquired BY the blade. Zantetsuken is the true primal, as we discovered in the Odin trial quests. We also later learned that Zantetsuken was one of the weapons created in Baldesion Arsenal. It's been a while since I ran through the Baldesion Arsenal quests, but I believe that it was stated that the Arsenal was created by the Allagans. So, in order of appearance: Allagans -> Arsenal -> Zantetsuken. This means that the Auri warrior in the legend probably does not predate the Allagan Empire.

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Posted too slow, but FASCINATING!!!! That means the Allagan creation theory IS possible (and the Allagns locked up a LOT of dergs......)

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Ah, but we HAVE had real dragons! Dinosaurs! :)

I'm being flippant, but it's likely the case that the widespread dragon legends likely have do with the fact that dinosaur bones can be found pretty much all over the world.

In regards to kujoestars's remark that all irl creatures that reproduce asexually also reproduce sexually, consider that FFXIV dragons are VERY unlike irl creatures. Irl creatures need sexual reproduciton in order to mutate and evolve over generations - but FFXIV dragons mutate and evolve within their own (considerably long) individual lifespans. This could well negate the evolutionary advantage that sexual reproduction brings to the table.

It's worth noting, though, that in spite of this, dragons for some reason choose to be gendered, and choose to pair off into mated pairs (such as Tiamat and Bahamut). Whether these mated pairs actually do reproduce sexually, or only do it for companionship is unknown.

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Hmm, fair point. Although, there is the question on whether or not men-turned-dragons gain their reproductive physiology or not. :p

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

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We got Komodo dragons that's enough.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Posted too slow, but FASCINATING!!!! That means the Allagan creation theory IS possible (and the Allagns locked up a LOT of dergs......)

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The fact remains that neither the Allagans nor the dragons have been to the First. While the Allagans did portal their way to a different shard, there's no evidence they did so with the First and none of the other Allagan creations exist there. There are no Ixal, Ananta, chimera, etc. An au ra in Ishgard vehemently denies being related to dragons at all and the lorebook explicitly denies a connection.

The First has "dragons" - the glider-type enemies that look like lizards until they go into attack mode.

It's not clear if they have any relevance to the alien dragons of the Source or if they're just something unrelated that visually resembles them.

Also there is no in-game reason to draw a connection to Au Ra being something special, beyond their appearance. They don't have extended lifespans or special powers or anything. As far as we're told, they're just another variety of oddly-shaped-but-otherwise-normal human.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The fact remains that neither the Allagans nor the dragons have been to the First. While the Allagans did portal their way to a different shard, there's no evidence they did so with the First and none of the other Allagan creations exist there. There are no Ixal, Ananta, chimera, etc. An au ra in Ishgard vehemently denies being related to dragons at all and the lorebook explicitly denies a connection.

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Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, but the First has an iteration of the Crystal Tower, yes? Because of alternate timeline shenanigans. I still need to actually see for myself, but the fact it’s there leaves the possibility. Maybe not as likely, but there given the non-linear nature of time between Shards.

Also, unless there is another Au Ra in Ishgard who isn’t Sidurgu, you’re flat out wrong on that . Sid never “vehemently denied” relation to dragons; only angrily described the reason his family was slaughtered. He really had nothing against dragons at all and I doubt he knows himself if there’s relation or not (though obviously he’d have to deny it to avoid being murdered like his family regardless). The lorebook entry on Au Ra is also straight up word-for-word the Character Creation description, which just says it’s debateable, so it doesn’t “explicitly confirm” there’s no connection. EDIT: I checked the pages I found again and actually it straight up says NOTHING about their ancestry besides the Azim/Nhaama thing. That’s an even bigger strike against your claim. :|


A point I somehow forgot to mention before is that if you look at the wall on the exterior of the Dawn Thrown, the carving of Azim’s face looks VERY draconic because aside from the obvious Auri horns, the face is distinctly muzzled like a stylized version of some dragons’ faces. I don’t have the screenshot on my current device, but it stood out for me enough when i got to that cutscene to snap a few shots. I’ll see if I can post later.

Basically, I’m VERY suspicious of the two First Brood members we see and hear exactly zip about. It’s possible they have the Auri traits other dragons don’t have.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also there is no in-game reason to draw a connection to Au Ra being something special, beyond their appearance. They don't have extended lifespans or special powers or anything. As far as we're told, they're just another variety of oddly-shaped-but-otherwise-normal human.

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Appearance is literally all that’s special about them. Still doesn’t rule out distant ancestry though. ;p

The Crystal Tower on the First is literally the one from the Source, just from a different time, as the Exarch explains when you arrive to Crystarium. That wouldn't allude to Au Ra being Allagan made, as The Kingdom of Voeburt of the First was established before then and were lead by the Drahn(Au Ra). I believe the ancient Ronkan empire of the First also had Drahn royalty? I'd have to go back on on the Qitari quests to confirm that.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, but the First has an iteration of the Crystal Tower, yes? Because of alternate timeline shenanigans. I still need to actually see for myself, but the fact it’s there leaves the possibility. Maybe not as likely, but there given the non-linear nature of time between Shards.

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There is indeed a Crystal Tower on the First, but its reason for being there has nothing to do with the Allagans. If you don't know the details yet, all will be explained in time.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

But then, logically speaking, Middy’s kids should all be clones of him but they aren’t, nor are any of their children (though clones of each other, maybe). They even take mates and likely have their unique offspring from here.

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That's because dragon's physical development is entirely based upon the aether they absorb through their eyes as they age. At different phases of life they hit thresholds which, based on elemental balances and imbalances, metamorphose them into the varied forms of dragons we see.

The Ronkan Empire had Ronso royalty, the Drahn made up the priesthood.

Also we do know what Vrtra and Azdaja look like from The First Brood portrait in the first Encyclopedia. They don't have Auri features, one of them doesn't even have horns, and the one that does has feathers and a beak, and neither fall into Auri coloration.

Does anyone have any strong feelings on Highlander Hyurs, why males have no eyebrows, and whether or not that racist joke about them have Roe blood is true or not? I mean, I like the idea, because I find female Roes very attactive, and the men aren't all that bad either, aside from their insane shoulder berth.

I started as a Highlander. My first alt was a male Roe, and about 5 months into Heavensward I switched to an Au Ra on the Highlander and to Highlander on the Roe. Thing is, Roe of bother sexes have eyebrows, so I'm kind of at a loss as to why male Highlanders do not have eyebrows.

A fae fancy for your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Snip.

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It’s a bit weird how set you are in having au ra be draconic. I got it mixed up in my head I guess, but this is from 3.0 lodestone:

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The curved horns and beautifully patterned scales that characterize the Au Ra oft give rise to speculation that this Hyur-like race native to the Far Eastern continent of Othard are, in fact, the progeny of dragons. This, however, has long been disputed, with scholars citing several distinct differences in the two races as evidence of decidedly dissimilar roots - the first and foremost being the enhanced hearing and spatial recognition granted by an Au Ra's cranial projections (traits not attributed to draconian horns), and the second being the gross disproportion in body mass between Auri males and females (again, a trait widely unseen in dragons).

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

A fae fancy for your thoughts?

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I’ve always thought that highlanders were a cross-breed between roes and midlanders. The eyebrow thing is a cultural thing though. Male highlanders shave their eyebrows and file their teeth to points because they’re crazy.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’ve always thought that highlanders were a cross-breed between roes and midlanders. The eyebrow thing is a cultural thing though. Male highlanders shave their eyebrows and file their teeth to points because they’re crazy.

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Lmfao! Ilberd was for sure! I suppose Gerolt and Grenoldt are kinda crazy too... I'm definitely a little touched. Let's see... I guess the only Highlander I can think of that isn't fully crazy is Arenvald, but then again, he's full on crushing for Fordola so... yeah I guess your ideas check out!

Arenvald is half Garlean.

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

That's because dragon's physical development is entirely based upon the aether they absorb through their eyes as they age. At different phases of life they hit thresholds which, based on elemental balances and imbalances, metamorphose them into the varied forms of dragons we see.

The Ronkan Empire had Ronso royalty, the Drahn made up the priesthood.

Also we do know what Vrtra and Azdaja look like from The First Brood portrait in the first Encyclopedia. They don't have Auri features, one of them doesn't even have horns, and the one that does has feathers and a beak, and neither fall into Auri coloration.

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Interesting; was that something revealed via Omega quests or the lorebooks? Because my lore-snooping on the web didn’t turn up anything, but the Final Fantasy wiki is also pretty spotty on some info.

That said, hilariously when I dug for the First Brood art, the one that immediately struck me as Auri-like is Ratastokr (going off the four curved horns matching with the heavily stylized depiction of her). That said though, when I said “Auri-like traits”, I was thinking more in the sense of horns that aid hearing and the dimorphism. The latter of which was only said to not be widely seen. The only lines of dragons we’ve seen are Hraesvelgr’s and Nidhogg’s, and these are most likely the dragons most Eorzeans are familiar with.

Can’t remember off the top of my head if Ratastokr had her own brood, but if dragons are shaped by aether, it does raise some interesting possibilities on what could happen after several generations and any potential crossbreeding with Spoken.

But of course, with Azdaja and Vrtra not quite fitting the bill for the Dawn Father and Dusk Mother look, that brings us back to Bahamut/Tiamat for the dragon theory. XD

Also, just for the record, I personally believe that if Auri have any relation at all to dragons, it would be very distant at best. Which could be why dragons don’t really find Auri particularly notable from an in-universe perspective. Evidently though, Othard has had dragons at SOME point, but they sadly weren’t ever shown in Stormblood and I would kill for more dragon lore in a future expac because the dragon lore in this game is so good.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Evidently though, Othard has had dragons at SOME point, but they sadly weren’t ever shown in Stormblood

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The level 60-70 dragoon quests have one of Nidhogg's brood living in the Azim Steppes, having fled to escape being dragged into the Dragonsong War and gone mad. If we count the Monster Hunter crossover, there's also the Rathalos, who's just presented here as a powerful wyvern (we could debate whether or not the crossover counts, but I'm noting it here for completion's sake).

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The level 60-70 dragoon quests have one of Nidhogg's brood living in the Azim Steppes, having fled to escape being dragged into the Dragonsong War and gone mad. If we count the Monster Hunter crossover, there's also the Rathalos, who's just presented here as a powerful wyvern (we could debate whether or not the crossover counts, but I'm noting it here for completion's sake).

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Sorry, should have said “Othardian dragons”. XDDDD I completely forgot about that questline, but I was thinking of the dragons Othardians are more familiar with, which I doubt are Nidhogg’s. :p

The metamorphosis of dragons was in the first encyclopedia.

We've seen dragons of Bahamut and Tiamat's brood in Coil and Aszys Lla, they follow the same morphology we've seen in Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg with the one possible exception of the 'Coeurl' Dragons which are land-bound dragons that develop agility rather than heavy defensive shells. The metamorphosis chart says the Brobinyak which we see among Nidhogg's brood is the stage before that, though.

"Her remaining brood can still be seen soaring through the skies, the wanderlust of their progenitor flowing strong through their veins."

Bahamut and Tiamat do feel like the most obvious draw because of titles, but they don't hold exclusive claim to day/night dichotomies and to our knowledge they'd only ever lived in Meracydia, and the Au'ra had lived on the Othardian continent since at least the time of Allag. There's also a pretty fundamental gap in the whole idea in that dragons came to the world after the sundering, and au'ra have counterparts on the reflections indicating the race was present before it.

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

The metamorphosis of dragons was in the first encyclopedia.

We've seen dragons of Bahamut and Tiamat's brood in Coil and Aszys Lla, they follow the same morphology we've seen in Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg with the one possible exception of the 'Coeurl' Dragons which are land-bound dragons that develop agility rather than heavy defensive shells. The metamorphosis chart says the Brobinyak which we see among Nidhogg's brood is the stage before that, though.

"Her remaining brood can still be seen soaring through the skies, the wanderlust of their progenitor flowing strong through their veins."

Bahamut and Tiamat do feel like the most obvious draw because of titles, but they don't hold exclusive claim to day/night dichotomies and to our knowledge they'd only ever lived in Meracydia, and the Au'ra had lived on the Othardian continent since at least the time of Allag. There's also a pretty fundamental gap in the whole idea in that dragons came to the world after the sundering, and au'ra have counterparts on the reflections indicating the race was present before it.

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But that’s the part I’m questioning; if it’s possible that Auri appeared on the First and the Source post-Sundering. I finally managed to find a copy of the the first lorebook and the part about aether affecting physiology further feeds my speculation that under similar circumstances and countless generations, we could end up with Auri with how drastically a dragon’s physiology can change to the point they practically are different creatures (the exact words from the lorebook).

It’s purely open-ended speculation on my part, but it is to me completely possible at some point a dragon ended up on the First somehow (whether by weird time shenanigans or any myriad of things related to Allagan tech and/or pure dimension-hopping) and under similar circumstances, Auri eventually evolved. People apparently had a decent enough idea of how dragons look to make the Fae Gwiber after all, and I’m not convinced First Auri being called Drahn is a coincidence. But of course they could have just gotten the idea similarly to how irl humans all independently have the same general idea of dragons as powerful magical reptiles/serpents.

I doubt it was directly Bahamut/Tiamat for a lot of reasons, but to me there is a good chance of some descendent of theirs being the ones involved. Honestly, if there’s any consistent pattern in FFXIV, it’s that the legends all have some grain of truth to them. We just alas, probably aren’t ever getting an answer anytime soon, but that doesn’t stop Yoshi-P and Co from playing coy on the matter. I will stand firmly on the fact the concept that was ultimately finalized is titled “Dragon_Race”. :p

So we know two specific circumstances by which things can cross the Rift. Kill your body, make the jump as an aetherial phantasm, and inhabit a host. A Calling made via very, very specific magical and technological processes that can only reasonably have occurred exactly once such that not even the Ascians knew how it functioned.

Because of not being part of the sundering, Dragons (to our knowledge) don't get the Echo, so that rules out the former and even if they did, the death of the body would mean no physiological inheritance. A dead dragon can exert its will through an eye in similar fashion, but Midgarsormr referred to such a being as a Shade and would likely follow the same limitation of no longer having an actual body.

No dragons have been known to be brought over by the source of the calling, and even if they were, they'd have only existed on the First for 100 years up to the point we got there, Drahn would therefor predate them because they existed in Ronka.

Then we got the reason why Au'ra are physically compatible with the other Spoken, and why dragons likely aren't. All of the spoken, evidenced by the former fact, are different physiological developments of the same base race. Dragons are an alien race with a fundamentally different physiology, they live tens of thousands of years, metamorphose several times in a single lifespan, and reproduce by what is effectively aetherial parthenogesis.


If au'ra were descendants of such things, why do they they mature rather than metamorph? Their horns are ears, and odd ears are present in more than half of the spoken races. If they have a cross-bred reason for their traits, wouldn't that also extend to the other spoken that deviate from hyuran form? What are their reasons for being how they are and present on multiple planes?

And I guess lastly if they were compatible and if SE wanted them to be actual dragonkin instead of just some aesthetic touches, I feel like the most obvious question is why didn't Shiva and Hraesvelgr have kids?

We also already know the effects of draconic material aether being presented to the spoken and passed down genetically. Ishgard, all of Ishgard. There is no middle ground with the process, you're either yourself, or transformed into a full dragon.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

Snip.

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There would have to be a lot of contrivances and deus ex machina in order to make au ra/drahn dragon descendants who exist on multiple planes of existence despite dragons only coming to one after the planes split. If the writers had intended on au ra being descended from dragons, they wouldn't have explicitly said that they're not descended from dragons, as quoted from the Lodestone I posted above. And additionally, they could have had au ra simply not be on the First if they were dragon-kin. The fact that they are there is the final nail in the coffin for the dragon theory unless new information comes from the lore team or from future patches.

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Originally Posted by kujoestars

But that’s the part I’m questioning; if it’s possible that Auri appeared on the First and the Source post-Sundering. I finally managed to find a copy of the the first lorebook and the part about aether affecting physiology further feeds my speculation that under similar circumstances and countless generations, we could end up with Auri with how drastically a dragon’s physiology can change to the point they practically are different creatures (the exact words from the lorebook).

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The thing is, that happens at an individual level, and resets with every generation. It's like Pokémon evolution - a dragonet becomes a dragon, the dragon becomes a wyrm, the wyrm lays an egg... and what hatches from the egg is a dragonet, not a baby wyrm.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing is, that happens at an individual level, and resets with every generation. It's like Pokémon evolution - a dragonet becomes a dragon, the dragon becomes a wyrm, the wyrm lays an egg... and what hatches from the egg is a dragonet, not a baby wyrm.

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That is true, though if the offspring stays in the same region that would result in the same form repeatedly, or alternately if the aether changes to yet another unique imbalance. And for a little wild speculation, what if even within known patterns mutations happen? The thrown in any possible hybridization with man so forms become more fixed.

Back on just dragon themselves though: Your Pokemon analogy has me grinning at the thought of "Alolan Form" dragons. XD

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

There would have to be a lot of contrivances and deus ex machina in order to make au ra/drahn dragon descendants who exist on multiple planes of existence despite dragons only coming to one after the planes split. If the writers had intended on au ra being descended from dragons, they wouldn't have explicitly said that they're not descended from dragons, as quoted from the Lodestone I posted above. And additionally, they could have had au ra simply not be on the First if they were dragon-kin. The fact that they are there is the final nail in the coffin for the dragon theory unless new information comes from the lore team or from future patches.

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The Lodestone entry, again, only said it was debatable because of the two traits. And another thing is, we don’t know what exactly exists on all the Shards because Source aside, we’ve only seen the Firat (13th doesn’t count because it’s The Shadow Realm(TM) now).

Also, finally noticing the other posts that have been cropping up since I last posted, I feel I should clarify that I’m not “dead set” on Auri being dragons. First of all, I don’t think they’re literal dragons no matter what theory turns out true. Second, I’m only arguing the possibility is open, which is different from saying ‘They definitely are’. And lastly, what’s wrong with a little speculation? Everyone acts like it’s a one and done deal, but personally I still maintain if it’s not dragons, it’s some dragon-like ancestor that if not for the fact dragons are literally aliens in this game, would probably be called dragons.