Summoner got destroyed this patch

Yeah Bards have it easy, though we can not sprint out of AOE. No range DPS should do more than melee, that is just strange. I play Monk/Bard/Smn for dps and and never complained that my dps was low or I had to drop even lower as a bard. As a summoner though you just apply dots and watch the damage, a little unfair imo. Hell, Bards don't even use Allegen gear, all our bis are basically 90% myth at least smn can rock the cool gear :/ Still with that said removing thunder is a bit puzzling, not the end of the world but why not just adjust potency of existing spells?

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

Btw, we are still preferred thanks to lack of change in Boss Mechanics. Melee tears for days. Don't know what happened in the last couple of hours, but get it together and shut it down.

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What if they made slight adjustments to boss mechanics...

I mean, are you playing the game right now? No? Yes?

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Originally Posted by NeonC

Yeah Bards have it easy, though we can not sprint out of AOE. No range DPS should do more than melee, that is just strange. I play Monk/Bard/Smn for dps and and never complained that my dps was low or I had to drop even lower as a bard. As a summoner though you just apply dots and watch the damage, a little unfair imo. Hell, Bards don't even use Allegen gear, all our bis are basically 90% myth at least smn can rock the cool gear :/ Still with that said removing thunder is a bit puzzling, not the end of the world but why not just adjust potency of existing spells?

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We have sprint, because we have lower health and cast bars unlike you guys. In the case of bards, you can dps as you run without speed loss.
Summoners use mostly myth gears thanks to our accuracy cap (3 allagan in recent BiS)
Yes, we apply DoT's but we hardly sit around and wait (the good ones atleast)
They didn't want to change the class itself, something most of us would have preferred.
Replying to your secondary post, SMN wanted thunder because it adds variety and more of a skill cap to the class. That's the number 1 issue for most people.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

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till T5 Coil, there are no changes so far.
EM Primals wise,
Titan is basically a mine field and seeing as there are going to be sweet spots that are safe, ranged DPS are more likely to do damage in this situation.
Garuda has adds to be dealt with, but seems to be more melee friendly, but if plumes are once again present, people are going to want classes that do good AoE (at least at first).
Ifrit is the one EM primal that I can't comment on, because it honestly seems the same but they can't have done that because it would be too easy.
Ultima has plentiful AoE's going around and so you're not getting good uptime as a melee class on it.
So yeah. I feel pretty secure in saying that ranged is going to be preferred due to less boss mechanics and more uptime on bosses.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

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You see here's the thing. The only reason I'm even engaging with you on this matter is because you came into this thread to rub it in on people's faces that they got nerfed and you relished that due to some perceived injustice against in a videogame. So I took the liberty of reminding you of some harsh realities. It's not really arrogance because I'm not prideful about it, it's rubbing the harsh realities in your face. Kinda sucks doesn't it? Treat others how you want to be treated.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Please do keep that attitude up. See how far thats going to get you rofl. Go ahead and keep preferring ranged. See how many times they can nerf your classes untill you get the message.
And I am rubbing the harsh reality of the nerf hammer in your face. It is ppl like you who caused the nerf hammer to begin with.

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No one really caused a nerf, the developers saw the numbers and made their choices. If you honestly think that players have that much of a say, well you're naive. Society wise people will complain and wish for the downfall of others but that's because of entitlement and competition being taught in most if not all educational spectrums within modern society. Attitude-wise, you're the one who joined a thread to poke others for your own schadenfreude needs. Also, thanks to re-balancing, should another major rebalance come out, monks are probably gonna be up there as well.

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

So yeah. I feel pretty secure in saying that ranged is going to be preferred due to less boss mechanics and more uptime on bosses.

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Then you felt wrong. Keep that arrogant attitude up. Remember pride before fall. Remember what patch 2.1 brought to ranged dps. Remember that the same can happen again in patch 2.15.

Please do keep that attitude up. See how far thats going to get you rofl. Go ahead and keep preferring ranged. See how many times they can nerf your classes untill you get the message.

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It's not really arrogance because I'm not prideful about it, it's rubbing the harsh realities in your face. Kinda sucks doesn't it?

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And I am rubbing the harsh reality of the nerf hammer in your face. It is ppl like you who caused the nerf hammer to begin with.

Well that is my point, I don't know why we as caster/range should feel entitled to such high dps when we have freedom of movement/up-time/surviveability all ahead of melee. Bard lost damage from our cd's and utility, Smn lost thunder. Unless you are really attached to thunder, who cares? It's not that bad and it will make the fights slightly more challenging. The biggest gripe I have in both losses to my classes is that it takes away from the interactions I have, I liked casting rod to help in a big hit or tab dotting with thun once bane and fester were cast. Either way both lost one skill basically, at lest you guys have a crappy replacement that will get some use as Bard got nothing but a useless skill now :/

If i remember correct, large amount of players (on forums) was cheering for the Brd nerf hammer, saying just take it, have fun and stop crying. Now that they did not just hit the Brd its suddenly just wrong and and and and...

I do not agree whit the sum nerf, neither did i agree to the brd nerf. I Cheer for the drg boost, and think wtf about mnk's.

But still its funny that u who screamed nerf to bard, and cheering for it, is not so fan of the nerf hammer anymore.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

Yeah Bards have it easy, though we can not sprint out of AOE. No range DPS should do more than melee, that is just strange. I play Monk/Bard/Smn for dps and and never complained that my dps was low or I had to drop even lower as a bard. As a summoner though you just apply dots and watch the damage, a little unfair imo. Hell, Bards don't even use Allegen gear, all our bis are basically 90% myth at least smn can rock the cool gear :/ Still with that said removing thunder is a bit puzzling, not the end of the world but why not just adjust potency of existing spells?

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I want to know how do you think BARD has it easy, take T4 for example. Song in P2 4 6. Timing it right for MP, taking the Rook and DPS while expecting to deal high damage. T2, taking rot from healers passing it the the next healer while silencing high voltage. How is BLM or PLD any easier than BRD?

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

And I am rubbing the harsh reality of the nerf hammer in your face. It is ppl like you who caused the nerf hammer to begin with.

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The arrogance and contempt bleeding through your post makes it pointless for anyone to hold a reasonable discussion with you.

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Originally Posted by Venom

I want to know how do you think BARD has it easy.

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It's not that easy, I just didn't want to start a pointless debate of who has is harder in the game. Trust me I wiped the group a decent amount of times when I was timing a rot pass and missed the silence. One thing is clear though, who always dies first? Usually the melee, they have the hardest time simply fulfilling their role to the maximum potential. From phase changes to dodging all the aspects of the game punish their one job to do. While we can sit back and assess the battleground far more easily.

This whole thread has me more worries than hopeful for ARR. SE tends to take away rather than to add to resolve a problem with their "best MMO ever" design. I'm starting to think they really don't know what their doing. Their "pet" job just got fingered a bit to see where it'll go. SUB jobs here is beginning to be irrelevant while they rewrite the rules.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

This is about ranged dps being completely risk free. Like you hardly ever get attacked. You hardly ever have to run for AoE. You hardly ever have to stop attacking. You_dont_have_risks_like_melees_do.

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Everything past HM Ifrit would like to have a word with you.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Everything past HM Ifrit would like to have a word with you.

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Hey now, let the person adapt to AK before saying stuff like that, u can hurt some feelings ;)

Coil: A ranged dps' Journey

Turn 1: Ranged stand there dps, move 1 step off glowing tile.
Turn 2: 2 steps to the side to avoid large laser sometimes, 3 steps to pass debuff
turn 4: Stand in center, move a bit, stand in center, stand behind boss, done
Turn 5: Only phase ranged really experience moving due to boss mechanics (Most ranged tunnel vision and have to be told to move)

Coil: A melee dps' Journey
Turn 1: Okay we just stand there to lmao
Turn 2: Easier for us since we don't pass rot?
Turn 4: Same as ranged (If tanks are bad melee have to chase mobs)
Turn 5: Same as ranged

So basically the only difference in movement generally is that melee has to move from side to back alot to get maximum dps main difference. As far as actual mechanics all jobs mostly move the same.

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Originally Posted by Sevyn

Coil: A ranged dps' Journey

Turn 1: Ranged stand there dps, move 1 step off glowing tile.

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Only a few small corrections: You forgot the ADS laser at the start of T1 and Cad's spitting attack for range. And T2 melee have to deal with a smaller circle AoE, if I'm not mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Only a few small corrections: You forgot the ADS laser at the start of T1 and Cad's spitting attack for range. And T2 melee have to deal with a smaller circle AoE, if I'm not mistaken.

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Ah yeah true, but once you've mastered the servers 0.3 character update thingy the small aoe doesn't slow you down. And I don't count the ADS at the beginning lol.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Then you felt wrong. Keep that arrogant attitude up. Remember pride before fall. Remember what patch 2.1 brought to ranged dps. Remember that the same can happen again in patch 2.15.

Please do keep that attitude up. See how far thats going to get you rofl. Go ahead and keep preferring ranged. See how many times they can nerf your classes untill you get the message.



And I am rubbing the harsh reality of the nerf hammer in your face. It is ppl like you who caused the nerf hammer to begin with.

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I am going to enjoy watching you cry when they tone monks down.

Monks probably did get buffed a bit to much. Granted not many were even able to get maximum dps but when they did it was pretty much top dps (except summoners still beat them). So now they will definitely be way ahead of everyone else. So I'm already expecting a nerf to monks coming soon lol.

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Originally Posted by Sevyn

So now they will definitely be way ahead of everyone else. So I'm already expecting a nerf to monks coming soon lol.

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Guess we'll find out tonight, eh? :)

Again, I think by and large, most top end SMN agree that a nerf was needed. Most are not disputing the fact we GOT nerfed. It is HOW they did it. completly taking a dot away from us, really makes being a SMN easy. It took some skill to pull top numbers as a SMN, and while bad players will remain bad, you will see less of a gap between decent players and good players. IMHO that is bad for the game. When I joined my raid team I was slightly under geared. They took me cause they needed a slot filled to go. After one run I got a permanent spot, because I didn't suck and I could pull the numbers even without the gear.

Hopefully enough raid leaders out there go with the philosophy "bring the player not the class" Situations like this and people get the perception that a class is sub par and not worth taking. Even though in this case I do not think SMN are going to be that low.

Losing Thunder in the rotation won't be changing how you were playing that much.

We'll still be way more fun and complex than a BLM ever will be.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

^^



All I can say, is GOOD. We all saw this coming but for those too arrogant to know what is going on. While certainly skills do play a role, the reality is that many smn were doing so well because they had the WIND in their backs. The game mechanics favored risk free range dps and if you were not completely incompetent, you would be riding the train all the way to the bank. While other classes had to work hard and still had the wind in their faces.

We all know this is true. No point in denying this. If you realize that the game mechanics were skewed towards you, then you also understand why they lowered your dps.

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What I know to be true is that SMN are still better dps than MNK, even though we have the wind against us now and you have it in your back.

This nerf was very needed... Even with it I am pretty sure we will still top the DPS charts. Just not by a 25% margin anymore. (boo freaking hoo). In return we actually gained a 1/2 potency AoE. Who cares if we don't regen MP, lets the bard songs become useful again.

I'd still like to know the reasoning for just straight up removing thunder & nerfing the allagan feet into the ground...


I'm more than grateful for the bane range buff (it was needed for a long time IMO), but still believe it should apply to more than 3 other enemies. The virus nerf I could understand because it forces us to be more careful about timing it in turn 5, the easy mitigation of death sentences being the main reason I could see for that nerf. I assume they allow us to keep Eye for an Eye as it is because it's got a longer CD, though tbh if they are going to give a 60 second safety cooldown on virus to an enemy, the same should apply so we can't keep E4E up 24/7 on the tank.

But killing thunder & nerfing the feet? Why? Can we get a dev response to that please? At least it would stop all the speculation.

Boots aren't getting nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

Boots aren't getting nerfed.

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Really? I thought I saw that there was a change from crit to spell speed in the patch notes.

Did they say somewhere they weren't going to do this after all?

Yeah, they'll be reverting changes to healing boots/pants and casting boots. The translation makes it sound like they'll be reverting it back to the pre-patch stats.

Reading a lot of these comments makes me happy to see many of you share my sentiment. Summoner has been rendered useless. The class has honestly been turned into a derpy class for those looking to get away from the BLM for some fun pet time. This is a sorry excuse for a nerf for the sake of a nerf. Nothing was fixed and i would really just prefer my mytho points back so i can just become a BLM like everybody else. I've spent way too much time gearing and perfecting my class just to be on par with some of the end game BLM's on my server to now struggle to keep up with the afking semi-afk monks (after 2.1) next time you want to mess with a class just reset mytho or give people their invested money back because ive just wasted 2 and a half months on a now useless class (imo).

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Originally Posted by heartlessly

*snip* ive just wasted 2 and a half months on a now useless class (imo).

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That is a little extreme. First there is no way losing Thunder is going to render SMN useless, maybe less fun, but DPS wise people are already coming up with the math and it looks like it will be a ~8-10% loss. We needed the nerf. Though I think most of us agree this was a poor way to do it. as far as getting your money back, you enjoyed your time over the past few months I assume, so you gained entertainment out of it. Lets say a mmo closes its doors, should they have to refund every players lifetime of subs, because they ruined there future fun? Of course not. If you no longer have fun by all means cancel, but I think it a bit absurd to think you are owed money because something changed. I played WoW, they changed it, it sucks now, canceled my sub and moved on. That my friend is life.

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

I'm more than grateful for the bane range buff

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Yeah I think this is getting overlooked. It will be a good improvement. Now if they would remove that pesky 3 mob cap.

Well i wouldn't sell you a car then tell you to bring it in for a mandatory recall and reissue you the same car without doors while giving you the excuse "it weighed too much for the roads". Your car was nerfed, money please.

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Originally Posted by heartlessly

Summoner has been rendered useless.

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You are a terrible summoner, if you ever played one, otherwise you're talking out of your rear with no knowledge and don't realize Summoners are still #1 for damage dealing.
I'll be enjoying this patch with my Summoner. No reason to change to another class, Black Mage is beyond boring, Bard is a snorefest and I haven't leveled Monk or Dragoon and still don't feel like doing so..

Hopefully I'll be coming across you in PVP at one point if the pool of players selected for the arena is cross-server so we can settle it over THE INTERNET like gentlemen.

We lose thunder. Big deal. Proper calculations show that it is a 5.6% loss afaik, some estimate it a bit closer to 7%, but hey, Monks are not gonna surpass us. Dragoons? Nope. Bards? Definitely not and Black Mages also got a bit of a nerf, so they are still under me~

Bask in my gloating.

Lets see Monk keep up on the damage charts for Twintania when you have to move all over the place and oh hey, RUN AWAY during phase 4 because if you get stunned next to Twintania, you're a baddie and die automatically from the Dread Knight.

Meanwhile I just let my dots tick away without a care in the world~

As I said before it s a shame to lose thunder but now people made maths 5% isn t as much compared and less time to stand still placing thunder and there are other options + a new buff will come to boost smn eventually. I still think smn will outdmg any other dps single target based as long you use it wisely if you are on pos 2 about to reach the tank (even with a good thank and using SStrikes) you are over dpsing others over 1/3 because the pet s dmg is like 1/3 of the smn dmg so that will be obvious that smn will outdmg all classes single target, I m OK that smn isn t as good as AoE that s Blm big point and I m glad for that. I lvled BLM on the same char I did SMN but smn is by far my favorite class ever but it s good to change from time to time, in the end we will have like nowhere else to spend myths it s just people want "HERE AND NOW" and "DO WHAT I LIKE OR MY MONEY BACK". I don t know what happened with the FFXIV vs FFXI community it looks over the year they turned or came from other games to be whinning and have that kind of mentality.

I m glad that mnks/drgs are getting some kind of buff it s sad that the only thing they can do is DPS while we can instant res/back up heal if needed/buff the tank/lower mobs str what is really needed for hard fights, be more AoE effective/cc in some way and I could keep going. So grats to all the melees but don t be so "proud" over other DPS because your nerf will come sooner or later and not as mercifull to lose 5% as they did to us so GL :)

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Make Titan useful

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Titan is very useful IMO. As a backup tank or as a main tank. I haven't tried coil yet but so far Titan has worked well everywhere else. He has high EPS (enmity per second) and very high HP. If you look at Titan bare bones, then it appears that Titan has VERY little DMG mitigation, however if you actaully put the entire SMN class in the tank role then you can consider Sustain (heals 32% of total pet HP over 10s) and Physick (not a great heal but combined with Sustain does add up) as the REAL DMG Mitigation. Titan has no issue AOE tanking if your skilled (get at least 1 auto attack on every mob), even if players AOE trash mobs like I do. The best practice for Titan AOE tanking is against yourself. If you can AOE and not pull hate of Titan then most likely no one else can either. While Titan's DMG mitigation isn't the best when compared to tank roles during their CDs it certainly is more consistent and is very viable pre-coil.

As for healers issue at least on PC you can Focus Target Titan then press F10 to heal him. Focus Target will be available on PS3 in 2.1.

When playing SMN as a DPS role Titan still has it uses if you aren't confident in your party, but you're still likely to get yelled at simply by not DPSing as hard as possible, but really having Titan out isn't saying you want to 100% DPS it's saying you want to support DPS, as a BRD does. From my experience most DF tanks can't AOE tank and I enjoy AOEing as SMN (as SMN kills much faster that way) so I have Titan tank an add or two and my DPS with Titan out is much higher than with Ifrit/Garuda by only single target DPS mobs in order of 1 > 2 > 3.

Here are some images of HM Primal wins showing party setup with the chest on screen after win. 1 SMN Tank 2 Healers 5 DPS

http://i.imgur.com/HmNLZRo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Fb5ArXO.jpg

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Originally Posted by OmegaNovaios

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Titan is useful before most places end game. Hell, in some runs with pugs when tanks die, I manage to summon titan up and kills adds/res the tank. But it's situational usage at most. HM Primals don't really need it at all, so far in all of these cases Garuda is best. Titan is fine PvE wise, Ifrit is what needs a major revamp/buff.

SIDE NOTE: Maintenance increased an hour, but you can download the patch guys :3

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

We lose thunder. Big deal. Proper calculations show that it is a 5.6% loss afaik, some estimate it a bit closer to 7%, but hey, Monks are not gonna surpass us. Dragoons? Nope. Bards? Definitely not and Black Mages also got a bit of a nerf, so they are still under me~

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That number is wrong, btw. It's ~9-10%.

I couldn't comment on the guy doing it, but for first thing he didn't factor in contagion/RS/Int Pots, and the way he went about the time and rotation is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

That number is wrong, btw. It's ~9-10%.

I couldn't comment on the guy doing it, but for first thing he didn't factor in contagion/RS/Int Pots, and the way he went about the time and rotation is wrong.

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I'm still going to say you're overestimating and exaggerating.

From the way I have calculated it is about a 10% nerf to our personal damage, but factoring pet in its about 7.5% nerf in overall dps.

Just like to point out, I think they broke Summoners Obey. To tired to truly test this some more but currently when Garuda is set to attack a monster in obey her wind blade attack will sometimes just plain not go off. You'll see it go off it's normal GCD but Garuda will just stand there and stare at the monster. I hope it's just lag but i'll check again tomorrow. Also happy 2.1 patch all.

On the japanese forum, the thunder removal complain has already exceeded 500 likes. To increase our chances on getting thunder back, we have to team up with japanese players so please upvote the op here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%A0%EF%BC%81