Turn 2 "easy mode", disables every mechanic in the fight

The enrage timer gets stronger throughout coil probably due to the common misconception that healing is hard. That is, you think on a lesser content (turn 1/2) you don't need as strong an enrage mechanism and it should still be able to weed out the weak, while the really hard stuff you obviously just have stuff doing say 10K damage to everyone because you're expecting healers that can heal indefinitely against anything that can't oneshot them.

But what you invariably find is that people are way better at healing than devs/other players give them credit for, because healing honestly just isn't very hard when you have infinite resources. I'm probably too critical of devs, but we're about 10 years into the 'infinite healing' era (started in EQ1 with mod rods), you'd think devs would've learned that it's very hard to win a war of attrition against healers with infinite resources by now, and even very bad healers tend to do okay with infinite resources. I keep on see this assumption that bad healers can't overcome a weak enrage with infinite resources, and this just isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

The enrage timer gets stronger throughout coil probably due to the common misconception that healing is hard. That is, you think on a lesser content (turn 1/2) you don't need as strong an enrage mechanism and it should still be able to weed out the weak, while the really hard stuff you obviously just have stuff doing say 10K damage to everyone because you're expecting healers that can heal indefinitely against anything that can't oneshot them.

But what you invariably find is that people are way better at healing than devs/other players give them credit for, because healing honestly just isn't very hard when you have infinite resources. I'm probably too critical of devs, but we're about 10 years into the 'infinite healing' era (started in EQ1 with mod rods), you'd think devs would've learned that it's very hard to win a war of attrition against healers with infinite resources by now, and even very bad healers tend to do okay with infinite resources. I keep on see this assumption that bad healers can't overcome a weak enrage with infinite resources, and this just isn't true.

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Ya...if we had inifinite healing resources, I might agree with you. But we don't. I also find it cute that someone who doesn't even play a healer feels they can say "healing isn't difficult."

Kinda wondering though, what happens when you hit the enrage the normal way? Does ADS also stop using all its abilities? Admittedly you'd still have Rot to deal with, but if that's the case this method seems legit.

If not I can see SE definitely labeling this as an exploit as it prevents ADS from triggering mechanics it otherwise would have.

Some people here need really to chill out.

Exploit, Exploit, Exploit, blah blah blah.

If it's unintended by SE then they'll fix it, easy.

How do you know this isn't working as intended ?

Look at Chimera, people drag it to the hill to evade a skill of his.
In WP people use the "purple line" to cut out trash mobs in boss rooms.
Was this also a exploit ? Nope "working as intended".

Don't you find it strange that Ifrit HM and Titan HM who are suposed to be less hard to fight have a KO ability but ADS not?
Maybe doing ADS this way is another aproach of defeating him, takes longer but the boss losses his skills. Who knows ?
Was the T3 speed rush also intended ? Isn't it an exploit ?
Strange I don't see you guys crying about that huh?

Before shouting use your brains a little.
If it's unintended SE will modify it, point.

I love enraged mode!

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Originally Posted by Astarica

-snip-

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tried this version on monday.

if we didn't have bards our healers would have gone OOM at 25% hp. even our scholar was OOMing.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

The enrage timer gets stronger throughout coil probably due to the common misconception that healing is hard. That is, you think on a lesser content (turn 1/2) you don't need as strong an enrage mechanism and it should still be able to weed out the weak, while the really hard stuff you obviously just have stuff doing say 10K damage to everyone because you're expecting healers that can heal indefinitely against anything that can't oneshot them.

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Healing comes with it's own set of challenges and it can be the most demanding job to play I think. Healing through Titan to me is the hardest role to play in that fight. You have to dodge, watch cast timers, hold still long enough to cast, make sure the tank (add party into the mix due to stomps) stays at an acceptable level to survive Mountain Buster, while pre curing so when Mountain Buster goes off the tank is only low for a fraction of a second, Watch hate and MP levels, and stack for bombs when need be. That's kind of alot for one person to do (amplified as if a healer goes down in Titan, chances of success fall exponentially). It becomes impossible in the event there is any kind of latency on the network.

Turn 1 has Cad using Hood Swing where you are almost required to be pre curing (pre cure bombing is closer to the mark) to make sure that the tank stays alive. With the sheer damage that ability coupled with it happening to two of your tanks after the split enhanced by the addition of the buff stack makes it to the point where WHM's will burn out MP faster than they can recover it and damage can come so quickly that even if you're stacking cures back to back, sometimes you just can't cure fast enough. Plus you have to Esuna, Regen, and occasionally cure the other party members (while relying on the other healer to be doing what they are supposed to be doing and if they aren't, you get to double down on your job). It's much more difficult than you may think and God help you if your tank dies to Hood Swing because somehow some way, It's your fault and you're wasting your parties time by causing wipes.

I run out of MP. I don't have an infinite pool and my casts aren't instant and crit for 9999. Sastasha gives you nearly infinite MP. Coil? Not by a long shot.

Don't think that raging ADS doesn't give it's own set of challenges. It does, especially to the healers.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

tried this version on monday.

if we didn't have bards our healers would have gone OOM at 25% hp. even our scholar was OOMing.

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Infinite resources usually requires the cooperation of other classes. but why wouldn't you use your bards for MP?

@Marishi-Ten

+1 Internet to you sir !

You definitely defined WHM perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Kinda wondering though, what happens when you hit the enrage the normal way? Does ADS also stop using all its abilities? Admittedly you'd still have Rot to deal with, but if that's the case this method seems legit.

If not I can see SE definitely labeling this as an exploit as it prevents ADS from triggering mechanics it otherwise would have.

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The abilities come in at specific percentages (or they're timed, I can't remember - it's one of the two!). So no, you wouldn't have Rot to deal with unless you DPS him down low enough for Rot to go out, since once ADS enrages, he stops gaining/using those abilities. But even if Rot DOES go out, this strat allows groups with more than 1 Melee to successfully deal with the Rot (which they cannot do using the standard strat). That's the entire point - you don't have to deal with fire lines or ballast because he's enraged.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Infinite resources usually requires the cooperation of other classes. but why wouldn't you use your bards for MP?

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even with a bard they were hard pressed for mana, and Bards run out of mana eventually as well. (this can be delayed with battle voice, but thats thirty or sixty seconds of a five minute long battle depending on composition)

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

even with a bard they were hard pressed for mana, and Bards run out of mana eventually as well. (this can be delayed with battle voice, but thats thirty or sixty seconds of a five minute long battle depending on composition)

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4 Bards 1 tank 3 healers. Spammin dem skillz for the win yo!
Maybe they should add something like this to turn4 as well so the bads can kill it too. Maybe twintania as well?

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

4 Bards 1 tank 3 healers. Spammin dem skillz for the win yo!
Maybe they should add something like this to turn4 as well so the bads can kill it too. Maybe twintania as well?

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Except most parties (static or not) can't come up with this combination of players just like that. So your point it completely moot. The number of parties that can/ desire to have 4 bards for just 1 fight is just not that high. Most parties will be doing this fight with 2 tanks, 2 bard, 2 healers and 2 dps.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

snip

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That wasn't really my point. My point was, what happens when you get him low, he has absorbed adds, but you're simply not fast enough and he enrages. Will he then also lose Firestream/Ballast, the Gravity Field thingie and so on. Because if he keeps abilities from absorbed adds after he enrages I'd definitely think enrage stopping him from absorbing adds is something that's not working as intended.

If he does stop using all those abilities if you enrage, simply by being too slow, on like 5-10% then the SE devs for some reason designed an enrage that's easier than the actual fight. Screw logic I guess.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

4 Bards 1 tank 3 healers. Spammin dem skillz for the win yo!
Maybe they should add something like this to turn4 as well so the bads can kill it too. Maybe twintania as well?

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I'm just curious, how does this effect you if other groups use an alternate method? No one is forcing you to down turn 2 this way..

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

That wasn't really my point. My point was, what happens when you get him low, he has absorbed adds, but you're simply not fast enough and he enrages. Will he then also lose Firestream/Ballast, the Gravity Field thingie and so on. Because if he keeps abilities from absorbed adds after he enrages I'd definitely think enrage stopping him from absorbing adds is something that's not working as intended.

If he does stop using all those abilities if you enrage, simply by being too slow, on like 5-10% then the SE devs for some reason designed an enrage that's easier than the actual fight. Screw logic I guess.

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He stops using everything but his AoE, from what I understand, and the stacking debuff on the tank.

However, the amount of damage that goes out is far, FAR more than you would ever see if you did the fight correctly. Hilariously more.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

That wasn't really my point. My point was, what happens when you get him low, he has absorbed adds, but you're simply not fast enough and he enrages. Will he then also lose Firestream/Ballast, the Gravity Field thingie and so on. Because if he keeps abilities from absorbed adds after he enrages I'd definitely think enrage stopping him from absorbing adds is something that's not working as intended.

If he does stop using all those abilities if you enrage, simply by being too slow, on like 5-10% then the SE devs for some reason designed an enrage that's easier than the actual fight. Screw logic I guess.

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Easier than the actual fight only if you prepare for it.

With only two healers and no way of using Cure III instead of Medica thanks to Rot... I doubt you'd survive more than a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Kinda wondering though, what happens when you hit the enrage the normal way? Does ADS also stop using all its abilities? Admittedly you'd still have Rot to deal with, but if that's the case this method seems legit.

If not I can see SE definitely labeling this as an exploit as it prevents ADS from triggering mechanics it otherwise would have.

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The weird thing is I've seen ADS on a stream hit 0 before when it's health was sub 75% and it didn't enrage. It reset the group back at the beginning because they lost the encounter, as in the group was still alive and rot didn't go off...the fight just ended and they were back at the beginning. The way the mechanic probably works is that the devs had it where if a group was super, super slow in killing the nodes and it got to 12 stacks then ADS starts hitting the entire T2 zone with the aoe.

So I think the current strat takes advantage of that mechanic by killing the boss when he's supposed to be pelting the entire arena while a group is supposedly being super slow and not there yet for whatever reason and bypassing the mechanic where they're already engaged with ADS and the fight simply ends. That's my two cents based on observations anyway.

Tried this the other day with our normal party setup, died @ 20%. Retried it with our tank on monk and the new guy solo tanking until rage. The path to ADS was filled with pain and death due to our tank being new to coil. All in all it was stressful on my MP but a lot easier than wiping until people gets tired.

It's not really easier in that your waiting around for like 8 min waiting for it to rage when you could of been killing it in like 2-3 min.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It's not really easier in that your waiting around for like 8 min waiting for it to rage when you could of been killing it in like 2-3 min.

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It's really only for the weaker individuals who fails at silencing or moving around while the fight goes on

to be fair, they will still fail in T5 or even T4 anyway, so while its a strategy that works, it is pretty pointless

god forbid using human ingenuity to find a easier solution to a problem using an alternate strategy for the benefit of people.everybody lets pusinsh human intelligence now

Not an exploit. SE programmed it this way.

What's the point in complaining about how others choose to bet a boss. Is it affecting your group? Is it going to change how your party beats Coil later on if someone else's group chooses to beat it this way? No. It's not. SE will sooner or later come out and says wither or not this is ok. If it's not, they'll fix it and ADS will just kill everyone when the timer ends. Until then, Do Turn 2 however your group see fit. Normal or easy mode. A win is a win. Later down the road if they can't beat later turns, not your problem.

Personally, waiting on a timer to end and fighting an enraged mob that was programmed by the devs to enrage that way doesn't sound to me like an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Refyll

What's the point in complaining about how others choose to bet a boss. Is it affecting your group? Is it going to change how your party beats Coil later on if someone else's group chooses to beat it this way? No. It's not. SE will sooner or later come out and says wither or not this is ok. If it's not, they'll fix it and ADS will just kill everyone when the timer ends. Until then, Do Turn 2 however your group see fit. Normal or easy mode. A win is a win. Later down the road if they can't beat later turns, not your problem.

Personally, waiting on a timer to end and fighting an enraged mob that was programmed by the devs to enrage that way doesn't sound to me like an exploit.

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I second this, there should just be a button at the beginning of the instance that you can push to receive your loot and move on if you don't feel like dealing with the mechanics.

We've Failed the silence twice with 2 deaths before and still downed this legit. I don't get why this fight is so hard for some people.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I second this, there should just be a button at the beginning of the instance that you can push to receive your loot and move on if you don't feel like dealing with the mechanics.

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Agreed, I mean it doesn't affect anyone if I choose to get my loot instantly, they can still do all the hard work they enjoy doing.

All of you complaining about wasting 5-7 minutes of your time are hilarious btw... considering your wasting 5-7 hours at a time playing a video game to begin with. Least be honest with yourself.

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Originally Posted by Refyll

Personally, waiting on a timer to end and fighting an enraged mob that was programmed by the devs to enrage that way doesn't sound to me like an exploit.

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Wuut? I wasn't going to post in here but I seriously don't understand this thinking. The whole point of an enraged mob is to wipe a party, if parties are surviving an enrage for any real length of time (in this case ~76-80% of bosses health), it is a failure of an enrage. I in no way think this is an exploit, or anyone should be punished by it, but it clearly ignores T2's intended design, and should be fixed by devs.

I tried suggesting this to my FC.

Me: Hey gaiz, wanna try Turn2 ez mode? Lelz
FC: Turn 2 is already ez mode!
Me: oh...yeah..I knew that...

we did turn 2 the other night and guess how long we were stuck there. You got it! 2 hours! Lol
a couple of people were lagging, BRD and BLM number 1 and 5 in rot rotation. We switched it and made me(DRG) and tge other tank 1 and 5 respectively. It was quite an adventure with having both a melee and a tank do rot rotation lol

The only thing I get outta that video is why the fuck do you have 3 healers?

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Originally Posted by lilena

The only thing I get outta that video is why the fuck do you have 3 healers?

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To keep up with the massive AoE.

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Originally Posted by Orlandeu

To keep up with the massive AoE.

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I just... so let me get this straight.

You bring an extra healer.... to make healing easier.. for doing a boss the "ez mode" way.

*facepalm*

Let me straighten it for you.
Turn 2 ez mode gets rid of all the mechanics in the fight and forces the boss to enrage and just do one attack which is an AoE that deals massive amount of damage. They bring another healer to keep up with the damage otherwise, theyre just gonna keep on wiping.

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Originally Posted by lilena

I just... so let me get this straight.

You bring an extra healer.... to make healing easier.. for doing a boss the "ez mode" way.

*facepalm*

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It's easier on the DPS and even the tanks. It's not easier on the healers. :)

It was pretty stupid easy as a healer. Hit divine, cast medica until it wears off. When it wears off use medica, cure III, medica, cure III rinse repeat.

Not exactly difficult. No moving, No spike dmg hits from the boss, Nothing to worry about. LOL

It just seems really stupid to bring in an extra healer when you know.. you could just do the fight like normal which is already VERY easy. lol

Also do you bring in the extra heal for the 1 fight then kick them out? I mean.. unless someone is just class swapping for the 1 fight, which again seems like ALOT of work for a fight that's already REALLY easy.

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Originally Posted by lilena

It just seems really stupid to bring in an extra healer when you know.. you could just do the fight like normal which is already VERY easy. lol

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IMO it's easier because you eliminate a lot of possible derp situations (Not passing rot in time, people not dodging avoidable shit etc). This way, it's just a zerg fest which is faceroll ez.

Can just have a party member switch to whm for the fight. We did it with a full AK geared whm with a hps food buff to survive lol.