Absence of end-game content : the downfall of every MMO.

Actually for an early game like FFXIV it has plenty of end-game content, enough to keep you busy while 2.1 comes out. Hell I'm still working on HM primals for my relic.

If you wanna complain about a game with no end game content... See Guild Wars 2, unchanged for almost 1 year, no end game content and nothing but cosmetic changes and pitiful rewards from dungeons

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Originally Posted by Onolock

I'm extremely bored with the game, we cleared T4 almost 6 weeks ago. Probably played in total maybe 3 hours in the last 4 of those to clear Coil and cap myth....game is actually extremely boring and lacking content.

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Poor you. Go play your 34893578th MMO which you'll also play only for 1 week before quitting.

Tell me why devs should even listen to you?

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Originally Posted by Ricky

bro this MMO is over 3 years old now, come on

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No no no no and no. Just no.
Ever since the first development team was replaced by Yoshi and his crew, ARR has always been treated as a brand new game. Or at the very least, ever since they showed the roadmap for 2.0.
There's just too much they've had to scrap completely and completely redo and then create brand new content on top of that to call ARR the same game that FFXIV was the first ~2 years.
This is a two month old game.


People are complaining about what happens to every MMO that's ever launched. ARR was never promised to be a ground-breaking game when it launched. From the very beginning Yoshi said 2.0 will just be a baseline to put FFXIV on the same level with other modern MMO's, and that's exactly what they did. Anyone expecting more than that from ARR's launch period, hell for ANY MMO's launch period for that matter, either have terrible memory or must be new to MMO's in general.

I was going to agree with you on some point until you mentioned World of Warcraft. This game by itself has A LOT to do. Sure, farming dungeons is boring, leveling other classes is boring. If you have completed every single achievement in the game, COMPLETED Turn 5 Coil AND have every class with 50 with relic/gear. THEN you can complain about not having things to do. This game has been out for what, two months? We are getting patches and honestly they are pushing out patches faster then WoW ever did. You talk about how mechanics are stupid in raiding, but have you ever even attempted Turn 5 Coil? Instead of comparing this MMO to WoW and any other MMO you can think of, look at it as it's own MMO and stop comparing it to games that have had YEARS to develop.

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Originally Posted by Aragor

Seriously?

I'm up to turn 4 of Coil and I don't have the will to run those boring-@ss AK/CM non-stop for the oh-so-leet full DL most noobs brag about.

Has anybody tried the beta of Wildstar or ESO yet?

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You complain that this game has no content but you talk about ESO? That is laughable. ESO has even said you have around 150 hours of content. You have World vs World, or Faction vs Faction. The best gear is crafted gear, there is no dungeon gear grind AND AND AND....

They have no raids.

You know what you do after you finish your 150 hours of content? You make an alt.

If you want to have a good argument, stop mentioning games that either 1.) have had years to develop and 2.) Games that don't even support raiding or the general MMO playerbase at all. ESO has even said that they are making this game FOR THEIR FANS, not for the MMO community.

All good. They can just nerf end game content and all is happy with the world because "woop woop i get my lootz"

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

it's over a decade year old games.
it's 2013, things gotta change around these parts. J

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Wow and FFXI might be decade old games, but the same problems that existed for those games in development and resourcing exist in these games. You act like technology as changed so much in that decade that we can create AMAZING VR like MMOs or something.

The backend technology is the same today as it was a decade ago. The internet is still TCP/IP, IPV4 is still running out of ip addresses and having a massive collision domain with 10+ unecessary hops in the NA between point A and Point B. HTML still blows as a web markup language. Windows still reins supreme.

While pc's and gpus are more powerful, the same latency issue that exists for everquest 1 applies to 2013 as well.

Companies still have the same resourcing issues and server costs today that they had a decade ago, if anything the challenges for them have increased and cost has gone up, meanwhile the standard sub rate of 14.99 has been around since 1998...

And most of all.

Successful change requires innovation. High enough amounts of innovation to result in enough change to solve this perceived problem requires a very high amount of risk. Building an MMO like this costs millions. With a price tag so incredibly high on making this game, and with this being the second attempt, High Innovation is a risky endeavor. And imo this game has innovation in other departments to make up for it.

My point: Very Very few AAA Game Studies have the balls to go outside the cookie cutter success pattern. They make the same types of games over and over again with the same type of hype and the same type of gameplay because people buy them.

New ideas are not always received well, and become a waste.

MMO's all follow a similar pattern in game play. 99% of them follow the same basic guidlines. Level up, Craft Stuff, do Quests, PVP, do dungeons, kill stuff.... As such, 2013 or not, you should expect them to all follow similar development paths and the most common development path is to launch said game and churn a profit asap so you can higher tons more devs to work on massive piles of endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Aerin92

[...] From the very beginning Yoshi said 2.0 will just be a baseline to put FFXIV on the same level with other modern MMO's, and that's exactly what they did. [...]

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Pretty much this. Back on the Beta forums, people were complaining that the game felt like it was just copying other MMOs out there, and seemed to have missed the part where Yoshi-P explained that that was their goal since before 1.0's servers were finally shut down. He specifically used the term 'Theme park' to describe the formula they were going with. A Realm Reborn was simply a damage-control project, and nothing more.

1.0 was so much of a failure as an MMORPG that SE came out and apologized for it and suspended subscription billing for about a year, and even when they resumed billing, it was at a discounted rate (for everyone at the time). In a manner of speaking, while A Realm Reborn is only 2 months old, which excuses the light content, the foundation the game (talking concept, not code) is built on is 3 years old, which in fact excuses that the game doesn't break any new ground. The game's foundation was already designed, built, and then released in 2010.

I was patient enough to enjoy leveling Conjurer and Thaumaturge to 50 before Jobs were even introduced, so I can wait for SE to add more content, even if it means unsubscribing once I'm done with what's currently available. But I never had some delusion that ARR was scrapping the entire foundation the game was based on to risk something new that might also flop (that's what 1.0 was, something 'new' that flopped) and damage SE's name even further.

I think the issue with current endgame is Bosses drop something for everyone.

The nice thing about XI is the content had a variety of bosses that didn't drop everything for everyone but rather dropped things for certain jobs but you had the option to fight more bosses if you wanted to get loot for certain people.

With the way the current drop system is, it creates a bottleneck because players are unable to say, well this boss drops war/drg gear so we'll try for this one then aim for the boss that drops whm/mnk gear. Instead it's we'll fight this one boss and hope for the best.

I hope they have plans to introduce more content/variety of bosses that can drop a smaller amount of loot to reduce the RNG to at least make it easier for loot to drop for something somebody wants, so if there are 6-8 bosses that drop loot for 3 jobs each, then if you only want gear for say your static composed of a PLD, WHM, DRG and MNK then you would only have to fight 3-4 of the bosses since those are the bosses that drop the loot for those jobs.

they need to hurry up with 2.1...im getting bored of the same shit...but i dont think 2.1 is going to bring enough...along with japan leaking radiation all over the planet...doesnt really matter does it...this is their final fantasy....japan will soon be uninhabitable....

You must be proud of yourself. Being a complete asshole, and all.

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Originally Posted by Aerin92

No no no no and no. Just no.
Ever since the first development team was replaced by Yoshi and his crew, ARR has always been treated as a brand new game. Or at the very least, ever since they showed the roadmap for 2.0.
There's just too much they've had to scrap completely and completely redo and then create brand new content on top of that to call ARR the same game that FFXIV was the first ~2 years.
This is a two month old game.

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Give the other guy some credit. It's not like Yoshi started from scratch he had a very nice foundation to start with. The engine is almost identical except downgraded to support DX9 and PS3, along with lots of props and newer dynamic shadows.

He essentially had a giant sandbox and was asked to make it fun. We all expected more, we all deserved more for all the waiting.

I still don't get people who make these threads.

It is somehow wonderful to do the same dungeon 1000 times to get a really rare weapon. But it is super boring to get a rare weapon and do the same dungeon 1000 times after. To me this adds up to:

1. Doing dungeons and endgame is boring!
2. Not getting drops is super fun!

So it seems to me like all this game needs is a casino where you pull a lever and you have 0.000001% chance of winning. And then all just stand there all day and "have fun".

Personally though I'm going to get my endgame items and then play the game while wearing them. You know, the more fun way than watching paint dry.

already lost interest in topic when the noob OP mentioned wow as gold standard...he must seriously jsut heard stories about how was wow but was never there...it had the same problems even bigger than this game when it started.

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Originally Posted by Aerin92

No no no no and no. Just no.
Ever since the first development team was replaced by Yoshi and his crew, ARR has always been treated as a brand new game. Or at the very least, ever since they showed the roadmap for 2.0.
There's just too much they've had to scrap completely and completely redo and then create brand new content on top of that to call ARR the same game that FFXIV was the first ~2 years.
This is a two month old game.


People are complaining about what happens to every MMO that's ever launched. ARR was never promised to be a ground-breaking game when it launched. From the very beginning Yoshi said 2.0 will just be a baseline to put FFXIV on the same level with other modern MMO's, and that's exactly what they did. Anyone expecting more than that from ARR's launch period, hell for ANY MMO's launch period for that matter, either have terrible memory or must be new to MMO's in general.

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Again this isnt a NEW game it is a RE-RELEASE of a failed game. They used the majority of the 1.0 content for 2.0 and didnt add very much new content. If this was a completely new game everything content wise would be brand spanking new but it is not it is rehashed content from 1.0. Regardless of who is the lead dev or not they are useing designs from 1.0 as well as content that had not been released in 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Again this isnt a NEW game it is a RE-RELEASE of a failed game. They used the majority of the 1.0 content for 2.0 and didnt add very much new content. If this was a completely new game everything content wise would be brand spanking new but it is not it is rehashed content from 1.0. Regardless of who is the lead dev or not they are useing designs from 1.0 as well as content that had not been released in 1.0.

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Almost everything IS brand new content. No idea what you are going on about.

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Absence of end-game content : the downfall of every MMO.

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The rush to level 50 before a new MMO can implement end game content : the bane of all hardcore players! :p

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Again this isnt a NEW game it is a RE-RELEASE of a failed game. They used the majority of the 1.0 content for 2.0 and didnt add very much new content. If this was a completely new game everything content wise would be brand spanking new but it is not it is rehashed content from 1.0. Regardless of who is the lead dev or not they are useing designs from 1.0 as well as content that had not been released in 1.0.

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I'm willing to bet that you'd consider something that re-used ~30% of the old, as something that is not new. That's sort of where we're at now that's why. Changes to re-released content are significant (mostly), and everything else is just new in general. But I guess that doesn't qualify for anything.

Maybe the fact that the area names and terms are the same that it sorta feels like it's just an old game. There's a lot of that going on, so I guess if you consider things like generic names/text to be equal to combat/system changes, newly designed areas, new quests, a new class, significantly new content in upcoming patches, etc, then yeah... "majority" of ARR is old content.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Again this isnt a NEW game it is a RE-RELEASE of a failed game. They used the majority of the 1.0 content for 2.0 and didnt add very much new content. If this was a completely new game everything content wise would be brand spanking new but it is not it is rehashed content from 1.0. Regardless of who is the lead dev or not they are useing designs from 1.0 as well as content that had not been released in 1.0.

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In the gaming library, Final Fantasy XIV: Online and Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn are considered two different games. Technically FFXIV:ARR is a new game that used FFXIV:O as a foundation.

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Originally Posted by Sayura_

It's OWN system with it's OWN end-game.

So, again--moot point.

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Originally Posted by Haoma

It's simply its own thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by Haoma

It's simply its own thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by Haoma

It's simply its own thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by Haoma

It's simply its own thing altogether.

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Beside the point. Why? Because as I've been saying--and as you've just reaffirmed--end game and PvP are two completely different affairs. It can't count as a legitimate end game activity--more-so now that you claim it has its own end game through a line of progression. By saying that, you've essentially concluded that it's a game within the game, and that totally separate game...has absolutely no bearing on the PvE content outside of it.

So: again, again (add as many "again"s as you'd like): PvP is not end game--it can't be by definition, anyway; it's not the last stage of progression, or even an activity restricted to the end of the game--so it being a major distraction for those looking for end game is debatable. The major concern is the fact that not everyone in the end game community cares about PvP; they can skip PvP altogether and not be punished for it. It's simply not part of the main game's line of progression...at all.

"Newly released MMO doesn't have as much content as a game that's been running for ten years. Wah." Cute. These threads are always full of win.

It's just a shame there isn't really much of a "Mid-game" in XIV as it stands.

There is the start when you are level 1, then there is the end when you hit 50 a few days afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's just a shame there isn't really much of a "Mid-game" in XIV as it stands.

There is the start when you are level 1, then there is the end when you hit 50 a few days afterwards.

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A design decision in every modern MMO that I greatly dislike and disagree with.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

It had HNM and BCNM as endgame content.

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Those weren't really end game....

How is this giving the market what it wants? Last I checked WoW gave us that and earned millions. Everyone else copied later stage WoW and are failing.

What if... what if a game actually copied the version of WoW that actually succeeded? That'd be interesting. You know the one that got them the 11 million in the first place. Classic.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's just a shame there isn't really much of a "Mid-game" in XIV as it stands.

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So what are you looking for exactly? There are a ton of dungeons, levequests, guildhests, and fates that you can do between level 1 and 50. They'll even level sync you and still give you xp if your level is too high.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

So what are you looking for exactly? There are a ton of dungeons, levequests, guildhests, and fates that you can do between level 1 and 50. They'll even level sync you and still give you xp if your level is too high.

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but..but...but....they are not VIABLE :)

There are more then 2 months since release, and some people (me included) are not 50. I disagree about "few days"

There are people who played this game at their own pace, their pace is just faster then most. (to everyone saying slow down, which really doesn't make sense.) I attend full time college and I still have 4 50 classes. You can level a class through one weekend with FATEs. The problem is people act like its the players fault that the game has little content. It does have little content, and it doesn't promise much more for someone who really wants to dig into a time consuming MMO, but that's the game this is. Its a MMO made by people who don't know what people usually want from MMOs. The emphasis for this game is clearly on casual play and atmosphere, it's not a game for people who want to play a serious MMO. Its not XI. They keep talking about how they're not including things like dueling so that people don't feel off put by people fighting in public. and making CT an instance to help people who haven't geared for coil yet even though anyone who wants to do coil is already full DL. It shows they're focused on trying to help out worse players, and shunning more hardcore ones. It's not bad, but its clearly the path they're taking this game.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

So what are you looking for exactly?

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Something worth doing perhaps? Having tons of levquests, guildleves, dungeons, whatever doesn't make any sense if there is no real reason to do them. I played the dungeons and leveled my summoner rather slowly and there was nothing different about it if I had just fate grinded or something else silly.

The game currently has 0 platues for character growth before the endgame, no learning is required before endgame, hell it's hardly even required during the endgame itself. I just want the game to take itself seriously and not act like everyone playing it needs to have their hands held and lead to the fabled promise land of "End game" the whole game should be fun, lengthy, and worth doing.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Almost everything IS brand new content. No idea what you are going on about.

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Than you didnt play 1.0 but majority of the content in 2.0 is re-hashed from 1.0. There is very little that is new in 2.0. Stop dreaming and do some research you will find all the current content in 2.0 is from 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Something worth doing perhaps?

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I have the perfect idea for you.

Level caps, with requirement "real life full moon". So when you get to 20, you have to wait until there is a full moon in real life. Else you can't progress.

As you can see this fulfills all your demands. It is lengthy, maybe months. It is worth doing, because else you are stuck at level 20. And it is FUN, because you get to look for the moon every night and see the beautiful stars.

I honestly don't understand why nobody has made these MMOs yet. They sound super awesome.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I'm willing to bet that you'd consider something that re-used ~30% of the old, as something that is not new. That's sort of where we're at now that's why. Changes to re-released content are significant (mostly), and everything else is just new in general. But I guess that doesn't qualify for anything.

Maybe the fact that the area names and terms are the same that it sorta feels like it's just an old game. There's a lot of that going on, so I guess if you consider things like generic names/text to be equal to combat/system changes, newly designed areas, new quests, a new class, significantly new content in upcoming patches, etc, then yeah... "majority" of ARR is old content.

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Regardless if it has been alterted for 2.0 or not it is still useing the old 1.0 content it is still re-hashed content. A few changes to said content dosent make it new at all. If you want a completely new game it isnt XIV arr or 2.0. We wont see too much NEW content til patch 2.1 and more in 2.2 that is new and not re-used from 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I'm a troll. Trololololo

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Thanks for your input.

camplain all you want, we are reaching 1.5 million players, so, i think people is talking about ffxiv