End game... Bored. The facts.

So a new MMO is supposed to have the equivalent of 2-20 expansions worth of endgame content on launch? Got it. Sounds unreasonable, but okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Onolock

For me right now it's really log on Monday, knock out Coil 1-4 in an hour, 4 AK runs and log off. Since T5 is down right now, this week is pretty much shot. I'm working on leveling other classes, but this is a poor excuse for endgame that yes most MMO's have trended to. Fact is, I would have rather had a launch in November with CT and Coil, with BL coming in 2.2 + extra content to the existing dungeons. What gets me is releasing CT(a raid that will more than likely drop Ilvl 80 gear and be easier than your current content). It won't be long before Twintania is on farm now that she will be getting fixed. So basically, it's log in and clear Coil + CT in a night, cap Myth and wait for 2.2.

2.2 is going to decide a lot about the game, and they need to release their plans for at least the first year so the community can see what kind of direction they are taking the game. It's a fantastic game, but it wasn't ready for a full release with the lack of content imo.

It's like companies don't look at why other MMO's fail before making their own(Rift, Tera, Warhammer, AoC)

---

This.

It's too bad MMO developers are still stuck in the early 2000's. It's time to step up and offer more at the release of your game. It's 2013 now. We've seen SO many MMO's fail.. you would think other developers would learn something by now, eh? If you don't have the budget to put out more content at release, delay the damn thing.

SE was in a special position, unlike some of these other companies/developers; this is a SECOND iteration of the SAME game. Not to mention our dear "savior" Yoshida-san is an experienced MMO player apparently, he knows what's up. He knows why these other games have fallen.

As Onolock said, they should of really delayed the release.

But you know what... all this is nullified by the fact that these companies have stock-holders and they want the game out ASAP. Gotta start making that paper, ya know? I'm sure in a perfect world Yoshida would of waited to release the game early next year.

Or at least I'd like to think so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M4Fade

This.

It's too bad MMO developers are still stuck in the early 2000's. It's time to step up and offer more at the release of your game. It's 2013 now. We've seen SO many MMO's fail.. you would think other developers would learn something by now, eh? If you don't have the budget to put out more content at release, delay the damn thing.

SE was in a special position, unlike some of these other companies/developers; this is a SECOND iteration of the SAME game. Not to mention our dear "savior" Yoshida-san is an experienced MMO player apparently, he knows what's up. He knows why these other games have fallen.

As Onolock said, they should of really delayed the release.

But you know what... all this is nullified by the fact that these companies have stock-holders and they want the game out ASAP. Gotta start making that paper, ya know? I'm sure in a perfect world Yoshida would of waited to release the game early next year.


Or at least I'd like to think so.

---

Yeah, and it's disappointing when you start thinking about 1.23 and that it arguably had more end-game content and I can't believe I'm saying this, but far better progression organization. There really needed to be more resources focused on post 50 content considering that they were building off of the previous version of the game.

You sir/madam get an A++ for one of the greatest web spoofs ever... ^_^ now wait while I cast FLARE!

Also while some MMOs are enjo- FLARE! Ahem- enjoyable, the MMO genre tends to breed the same idiocy in-game that leads to the same idiocy on the forums in posts that start like this one. Q.Q I'm bored! Make them magically make a ninety hour in one playthrough RPG into FLARE! a MMO with more content than I can ever do so I don't get bored, oh and it can't be like any MMO or RPG that has ever been made before because I'll just bitch about how WoW/EQ/GW did FLARE! it before a decade ago. And people wonder why the entire gaming community and industry with a few exceptions is going to complete shit in a handbasket. Any road Unforgetten Realms for life!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alfarjamie

Incessant complaining

---

Seriously, why do people like this think that they're droll, boring, complaints about what they don't like, are important.

I miss the days of the internet when stupid crap like this TC's post didn't exist, and incessant whining about stupid personal problems were kept offline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

I miss the days of the internet when stupid crap like this TC's post didn't exist, and incessant whining about stupid personal problems were kept offline.

---

This actually happened? Man where we're these places online? Lol, course it's not like the OP is posting anywhere on the Internet where this inane whining would get the responses that would cause him to go kill himself or anything, cause well it's always better to complain in a forum where most everyone is nice and the only toxic trolls on it agree with you. ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

Seriously, why do people like this think that they're droll, boring, complaints about what they don't like, are important.

I miss the days of the internet when stupid crap like this TC's post didn't exist, and incessant whining about stupid personal problems were kept offline.

---

I miss the days when people listened to their own advice rather than continuing to spread the cancer with hypocritical posts.

An mmo should have enough content so it can last till the next content update. Since Yoshi P. said "the game does not start till end game" what we have now is kind of pathetic.

Then go play the mmo that fits your needs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ladon

Yeah, and it's disappointing when you start thinking about 1.23 and that it arguably had more end-game content and I can't believe I'm saying this, but far better progression organization. There really needed to be more resources focused on post 50 content considering that they were building off of the previous version of the game.

---

I'll always miss 1.23. I think the game was going in a good direction. Me and my girlfriend were enjoying it. It's a shame Yoshida scrapped a lot of what made 1.23 good. I was hoping he would of built off more of what he had.

If you have a full set of coil/AF2 gear, sure you have little to do gear wise on one class. To have accomplished that you had a lot of luck and far too much time on your hands though. Try not investing all your time in one game only and you'll be disappointed less often.... just a thought.

I feel so bad for you that you are bored...really I do . I mean you did level that 1 whole class/job to 50 AND that one whole profession to 50 , wow that must have been hard, oh and also those runs like titan that you paid to win...my goodness I totally see your point .

Why oh WHY can't you solo and be unsocial in an MMO, not helping anyone but yourself. Damn SE all to hell for making you so bored after less then a month of game time and being max level with awesome gear you paid good money to have people run you thru for.

Heads will roll I can tell you that for making you bored it's not like you can help your FC or LS out or even level other crafts . I mean really how dare they not have content to stimulate you "hardcore" players when you speed level to crush the content they have . They need to patch and add content daily IMHO to keep at least you as a subscriber because after all your 1% of the player base is what makes or breaks all MMO's in the whole world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

Seriously, why do people like this think that they're droll, boring, complaints about what they don't like, are important.

---

SE losing sales and subs when not just "one or two" people find the game largely boring and too main stream is actually pretty important - SE needs to see what's being done right, what people like and what people don't like. Yoshi himself has said this numerous times.

I'm sure SE can't possibly hope to please content you so they might as well focus on the people that don't play 8+ hours a day every day of the week. Oh wait you only play 30mins 2 days a week but you've been at cap for weeks now with nothing to do I forgot

If anyone paid attention to any of the development what we really have right now is just the groundwork for what is to come. They had to REBUILD THE ENTIRE GAME.

They could have delayed release, great. We would have to wait.

But they ended XIV 1.0 nearly a year ago. Sure we could have waited till they finished more. But I know a lot of people just would have been happy to play. So release came. The foundation is solid, need a little work. But now they can focus on building on the foundation. People need to stop complaining and let them do it.

Quote:

---

what we really have right now is just the groundwork for what is to come.

---

Exactly, which is why I said in a previous post that 1-2 years from now people won't be complaining about these sorts of things.

1) 1.0 launch was really bad
2) 1-1.5 years later 1.23 happened, and the game was playable, game had content, etc.

1) 2.0 Launch is Alright, ALOT better than 1.0 Launch.
2) 1-1.5 years from now I suspect the same thing as 1.23 was, only better because 2.0 has content already to begin with.

The major difference though starlord - MMOs tend to fail pretty quickly if the game isn't "up to par" fairly fast, even if the MMO itself is fine, the new generation of MMO gamers are just, fickle. 2.0 has content but not a lot of it when you get down to it - you blow past almost all of it since it's simple 4 man content till the final 2, then you get a few end-game dungeons you spam and the coil, not exactly a lot of content there :p (Quests/FATES/LEVEs can't be counted as content since those are basic systems for games to level you.)

By time 1.23 came out almost no one was playing XIV, so by time let's say 2.7 come out, unless this groundwork has given us amazing content that separates this from the rest, SE will be scrambling to try to keep people interested. It's a relaunched MMO so lack of content is to be expected, but at the same time, if according to yoshi "end-game is the start" like other MMOs, there's not that much there yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

The major difference though starlord - MMOs tend to fail pretty quickly if the game isn't "up to par" fairly fast.

---

You say fail... I don't think it means what you think it means. All SE needs to do is grab a niche audience like XI to be successful. According to the stats released they have over 600k unique daily logins which is HUGE and apparently it is increasing. People bring up games like SWTOR, Rift, Aion and Tera as failures just because they never reached WoW numbers. All of those games are successful and their continued development is proof of this. If things pan out and 10 years from now XIV has 500k total users, I'll be happy. Fewer than that I am sure has kept XI going so I don't see a failure because a few people jump ship because they realize the game isn't for them early on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jre418

An mmo should have enough content so it can last till the next content update. Since Yoshi P. said "the game does not start till end game" what we have now is kind of pathetic.

---

I blame the fact he tells us this, then the content all-around is nothing. The ride to 50 is pretty fun but there's not much to do on the side but craft. It get's pretty interesting story wise post 40...I'm sad the story will end soon because I know we all get to end-game and it spam a single dungeon all day with long que times.
Restarting a sub is just doing content over again, but worse, thanks to the fact
we pretty much have to grind FATE's. He kinda let off early levels too and said end-game was the start...I'm not really wanting to get there lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kantide

You say fail... I don't think it means what you think it means.

---

Fail means exactly as I used it - SWTOR and Tera are perfect examples of MMOs that failed for various reasons and had to be relaunched, just like XIV 1.0 was a failed MMO. The reason they failed is not because of not reaching "WoW numbers", it's because the MMOs didn't live up to the hype or playability. This is why when you have people who are bored with your MMO it's good to know (and why Yoshi wants to know) so they know what to focus on in major updates, kind of like what they did with XI as you brought up they should try to focus on that type of group - Almost every expansion to XI was player desires, i.e CoP was the desire for low levels to be able to progress through an expansion as they level (hence level caps) and ToAU was in response to players wanting a faster level progression and more casualized gameplay.

Quote:

---

I don't see a failure because a few people jump ship because they realize the game isn't for them early on.

---

Failed MMOs happen when sizable portions leave and the game is no longer sustainable, especially shortly after they launch - TERA, again as an example, lost the majority of it's NA playerbase shortly after localized release.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

-snip-

---

Quote:

---

MMOs tend to fail pretty quickly if the game isn't "up to par" fairly fast

---

Unless your a major company like SE that has endless amounts of money it would seem XD.

Quote:

---

you blow past almost all of it since it's simple 4 man content till the final 2

---

Simple to you can be hard for others, I key up duty finder and even the first 3 dungeons I have had some people who don't tank right or don't heal leading to multiple deaths ( and me rage quitting lol). Anything is "simple" if you have the right tools with you.

Quote:

---

(Quests/FATES/LEVEs can't be counted as content since those are basic systems for games to level you.)

---

They are content whether it's solo or for a party it IS content, just you don't consider it content which is fine your opinion. To me it's content.

Quote:

---

yoshi "end-game is the start" like other MMOs, there's not that much there yet

---

I will agree with this as he DID say that end-game is the start and there isn't much end-game content as of yet. However, give it a 1-2 patches at that point end-game content will be there for sure ( 2.1 has Crystal Tower, 2 Primals, 1 New Dungeon, 2 known Dungeons made into hard modes with a whole different layout, Wolves Den (PvP), getting large amounts of gil for a house *I consider that end game since they will cost alot of gil, All primals will have a harder mode of sorts). and other things they haven't talk to us about yet.

They are working very hard to make this game awesome, end-game is not there right now sure, but in 2.1 they are clearly showing that they mean business for the end-gamers.

End-game Post 2.1:

1) Coil
2) Crystal Tower
3) Primals ( Garuda/Ifrit/Titan/Moogle/?) (Extra Modes)
4) Dungeon called "Pharos Sirius"
5) Mythos
6) 2 Dungeons Known being revamped for hard mode
7) PvP ( Wolves Den) Get those points to get those sexy PvP Gear!
8) Housing ( Getting/Building the house part)
9) Relic Reborn Quest ( Long)

2.2 All that is known is more turns for Binding Coil

Personally, by the years end of next year You'll be drowning in end-game content ( don't worry)

To me that looks very hefty for me personally.

Niche markets are very hard specifically because they're niche. Any big company is going to want to get as much as they can rather than cater to a niche market. It's like in any business. Would you rather be Wal-mart and make massive amounts of money or be a small farmers market? Both can succeed but companies have CEO's, Boards, and shareholders they report to so they're not going to go for peanuts.

As it stands, I don't think 14 is not set up to find a "niche" market in the gaming industry. It's hinging on drawing people with the FF name along with pulling some mechanics from other games. Now whether that's the recipe for success or not, only time will tell. With the end game being what it is, the new content needs to start coming out soon or else they're going to lose more subs.

MMO's are now a competitive genre due to the massive amount of continual revenue you can earn from it. CCP who makes Eve has basically just had 1 game for the past decade. They recently released Dust for some added revenue but they're a prime example of what a niche market in the MMO industry really is.

Oh and actually SE hasn't been doing to well. Over the past 5 years their stock has dropped significantly. They've had many flops and with the JRPG market being poached by smaller companies and their FF brand not doing as well.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_s...are-Enix_games

I don't know how reputable this source is, but if these numbers serve to be correct then the older FF's did a lot better than the newer ones. This doesn't have anything newer than 13 on it of course so it's a bit dated, but it goes to show you how they've definitely lost hype behind their FF series.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/27/fina...enix-director/

Also an article on how important it is for the relaunch to be successful. I've seen articles like this a few places last year when 1.0 shut down. The same article has a link saying that 11 is their most profitable game the company has had. So most likely means that they invested a shitload of money into 14. Both versions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyouko

Probably a mistake that I played this game from what I'm seeing, way too many casual players for my taste

---

....lmao...really now? I mean I could of sworn that about an hour ago I was running around Mor Dhona doing quests and I kept seeing shouts like this.

"*Insert dungeon here* LFM must be FULLY geared and must know the ENTIRE fight...NO EXCEPTIONS"

I am not sure about you but from my stance..casual players do not have that sort of attitude when it comes to playing and grouping. I must say that based upon what I have seen myself from the end game areas..and what I have seen on these forums..it would appear that the 1337 players are the ones bringing the entire end game community down with their poor attitudes.

Back on topic, I agree with the OP..good post.

Hmm, it says the facts in the tittle, But all i see is opinion. the real fact is its still vanilla, no true content has bin release yet. The game is still a baby give it some time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaZx

....lmao...really now? I mean I could of sworn that about an hour ago I was running around Mor Dhona doing quests and I kept seeing shouts like this.

"*Insert dungeon here* LFM must be FULLY geared and must know the ENTIRE fight...NO EXCEPTIONS"

---

They are doing this on my server for Ifrit... Must have DL... /sigh

Sigh.... The facts are OP is just another impatient one. Hasn't anybody read the future patch notes?!? News flash! New content is coming! Yes people, this is a new game. Get over it already..... The only issue here is this "I need it now!!!!!" attitude.. You did it to yourselves with this new generation of supposed "gamers" wanting to make end-game in 2 days or it's "waaa it's too much of a grind! I want every game to be just like WoW" You guys that cry about bad design, it's all your fault.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trife

Sigh.... The facts are OP is just another impatient one. Hasn't anybody read the future patch notes?!? News flash! New content is coming! Yes people, this is a new game. Get over it already..... The only issue here is this "I need it now!!!!!" attitude.. You did it to yourselves with this new generation of supposed "gamers" wanting to make end-game in 2 days or it's "waaa it's too much of a grind! I want every game to be just like WoW" You guys that cry about bad design, it's all your fault.

---

Welcome to the World of Warcraft... world... stuff.. YEAH!

In other news there are things to do other than "beating" the game. Level other jobs, do quests... explore... help others. If you are bored a month in then there is nothing they could do except make leveling a slow grind from hell, end game a slow grind from hell, and remove those teleports. Or they could keep the game the way it is and be awesome...

If you race to the end of anything, everything is going to look like crap.

I feel like people aren't grasping the fact that most players on legacy servers didn't rush towards anything. They have this stuff from 1.0. Also with how fate grinding works you can hit 1-50 in a week or 2 of reasonable playing. To say not to fate grind is basically like driving through the countryside at 55 MPH in order to "see" the scenery. While some people will take this option most people will speed on by and stop at the big sites rather than "taking" it all in.

So you can't really use the "you rushed" through the content so it's all your fault. Most people will blow through the content because they made it childishly easy. Leveling side classes or crafting is just a time sink which from what I've read is mind numbingly easy and pointless for the most part.

If you hit 50 in 2 weeks that still leaves 4 more weeks to be at the "end game content". 4 weeks is a lot of time even for casual gamers like me, and I didn't even have a lvl 50 when I started out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stryker

-snip-

---

I still don't have my first 50 yet, right now I'm on cruise control leveling up ALL my jobs, not just one. and I'm a semi-casual. 34+ leveling gets steeper to push through. For some people it's easy, but for me it is hard at some point I have to face those levels, but for now I'm getting my other classes up.

I am an old generation MMOer and played many games in the genre (not just wow) that had more things to do once past the leveling experience. I can list F2P MMOs that have more end game content and that is sad. I do agree that waiting patiently is a valid argument but then again I am quite sick of Devs launching their MMOs with sub par end game and then waiting to see if it sells well before adding more content once the money rolls in. "Trust us, there will be more soon (TM)!". I have heard this excuse far to often. I will simply point at Defiance as a recent offender of this tactic; they promised the moon on launch and as of yet have failed to deliver (and never will). So call me skeptical and a bit leary when I see new titles doing similar things.

"Level alts!"

Well at the current mythos cap, it will take approx. 38 weeks to gear one job so HF gearing up another one any time soon. Plus many of us, including me prefers to play a main and only go on alts if there is absolutely no choice.

As to rushing, getting to 50 is absurbly easy if not hyper boring once working on a second job. Fate grind is awful and rivals even some of the worst F2P mmos I have played when it comes to monotony. I guess on the plus side, leveling another 50 is super fast; it's just not fun imo. Then when it's done, you tack on another 38 weeks over your main job (per) just to gear it. Yay?

They could add another 10 dungeons to end game and the OP will still not like the end game because he will say running dungeon #1 is faster so the other 9 are useless etc etc .

Unfortunately like most theme parks they are usually are over once you cap level except a few where developers poor millions into , the end game they have tacked on to this game is just to keep you playing a little longer .

What you probably want is some sort of Sandbox type game , EVE maybe ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grailer

They could add another 10 dungeons to end game and the OP will still not like the end game because he will say running dungeon #1 is faster so the other 9 are useless etc etc .

Unfortunately like most theme parks they are usually are over once you cap level except a few where developers poor millions into , the end game they have tacked on to this game is just to keep you playing a little longer .

What you probably want is some sort of Sandbox type game , EVE maybe ?

---

There is absolutely no variation in end game here. It's one single 4 man dungeon and a raid aimed at elite players. That's pretty lame if you ask me. As long as those 10 instances gave the same philo/mythos rewards; I'd run them all and not just AK like right now.

I do agree.....theme park MMOs that 'end' really do 'end'; they always 'end' up cancelled or 'end' up in the F2P trash pile.

i keep seeing people calling this a nieche game. this is a carbon copy of wow dont kid yourselves. you do not come more generic than that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sasakusaku

I am an old generation MMOer and played many games in the genre (not just wow) that had more things to do once past the leveling experience. I can list F2P MMOs that have more end game content and that is sad.

---

No, you really can't. I have played every MMO since Ultima Online (technically I played AoL Neverwinter, but most don't know about that MMO) and there is not a single one that had significant endgame content at launch. You're either misremembering or looking back through rose-colored glasses. ARR actually has more than most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan94

No, you really can't. I have played every MMO since Ultima Online (technically I played AoL Neverwinter, but most don't know about that MMO) and there is not a single one that had significant endgame content at launch. You're either misremembering or looking back through rose-colored glasses. ARR actually has more than most.

---

What did Rift have at launch? I can't remember but I think it might have had more. But still overall you are right, none of them ever launch with a solid end game. The only semi exceptions to this are WoW expansions which launch with a whole new continent and a lot of end game dungeon and raid content. But still an expansion is an expansion so the comparison isn't fair, well, it is a little bit fair because this is a relaunch.

But be it reasonable or fair, doesn't matter. The reality is that all of the theme park MMOs that launched without an end game are now F2P. People get bored despite of excuses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by traja

What did Rift have at launch? I can't remember but I think it might have had more. But still overall you are right, none of them ever launch with a solid end game. The only semi exceptions to this are WoW expansions which launch with a whole new continent and a lot of end game dungeon and raid content. But still an expansion is an expansion so the comparison isn't fair, well, it is a little bit fair because this is a relaunch.

But be it reasonable or fair, doesn't matter. The reality is that all of the theme park MMOs that launched without an end game are now F2P. People get bored despite of excuses.

---

You forget about FFXI which added new areas and classes in their expansion too. If you take the FFXI japanese launch you had the same level cap as FFXIV does (50) and a whole lot of jobs missing. Most people don't know or remember this is because when FFXI was released in the US it had the first expansion included because it was already out for over a year in Japan. And here comes the shocker 11 Years later the game is still not F2P.

This is the problem with all MMO's they make Gear the thing for players to strive for, which is wrong, because once you get the gear you're stuffed with nothing else to do.

Vertical progression, while fun early on, is really useless as a progression setup in mmo's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan94

No, you really can't. I have played every MMO since Ultima Online (technically I played AoL Neverwinter, but most don't know about that MMO) and there is not a single one that had significant endgame content at launch. You're either misremembering or looking back through rose-colored glasses. ARR actually has more than most.

---

This. Tell me what mmo at launch had enough content to keep the try hards 100% happy till next major update

And everyone likes vertical progression and tierd content till they get everything. why else would every mmo do it accept for a select few