Gamespot ARR article. HOW DARE YOU DOUBT OUR YOSHI-P!!

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Originally Posted by fusional

which is exactly what it takes to be successful,

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No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success. Oh they can live just fine, but they mostly just coast on the contrived.

Every MMO that has claimed to be original, to add something new and drastic to the genre, has depended on a gimmick or ultimately small addition to gameplay that does nothing to improve or change the old structure that's set in place. Its never really expanded and it's stagnating. We have seen MMO's do WoW's thing 10 times better but a lack of content to compare and the lack of actual nuance keep people away.

Who is going to be interested in a game that adds nothing new? Pretty visuals and story only last so long as evidenced by every other MMO to come out in the past 5 years. In the end, we're all just doing the same KILL X OF Y questlines and rushing to endgame instances and no one has been brave enough to challenge that no matter the claims of originality.

To actually believe that the basic structure of MMORPGs is something that's already peaked, that you can't or shouldn't change from it is extremely shallow minded and keeps every new release from impressing crowds. No other genre is so hell bound to stick to a formula in the fear that it will fall apart. Even shooters have their occasional Portals and Metroid Primes. Games that aren't afraid to add concepts from other genres to restructure the core into something worth experiencing. Something that actually stands out and still retains popularity.

Bottom line: We've done this before and it has never worked out better than just "okay". If success is determined by playing it safe and resting in the expected, adding only to most shallow aspects of its design, then it's hardly something I would consider worth attaining.

Aside 1: I still fully intend to play and enjoy this game. I just think it's dangerous to not consider what we've learned form release after release of underwhelming MMOs ever sense LOTRO failed to make any lasting impression.
Aside 2: Is your shift key broken?

Believe it or not in this world it is common for people to have such a thing called an "opinion".

That being said I do not visit Gamespot since Gerstmanngate and will never do so again.

I respect Yoshida's answer a lot more than trying to act like FFXIV is the most innovative shit ever like ANet did/does with GW2, etc.

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Originally Posted by casker

I respect Yoshida's answer a lot more than trying to act like FFXIV is the most innovative shit ever like ANet did/does with GW2, etc.

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That's something I do like.
He's been very factual with everything. No PR/marketing bull to try to hype us up for a letdown.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success.

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You are making a valid point, but wasn't WoW a simple standard MMO when it first came out? It did nothing ground breaking for the genre. It borrowed many of the successful features in other MMOs, mashed them together, and executed them well. After building its pretty solid foundation, the game expanded upon it and started climbing all the way to the throne it sits on now.

Isn't that what FFXIV is doing currently? Yes it is still at the standard MMO level. And a high quality one, probably the highest from all that's out there. Given time after launch, every aspect gets improved and enhanced (more classes/ jobs, story content, new worlds, etc...). Then an MMO truly flourishes to show what it's capable of.

No one can expect the dev team to create an MMO in 2 years only and expect it to be the best of the best in every aspect, and redefining the genre in ways no one ever did (this is where the interviewer seemed ignorant). They wanted to make it to standard MMO level, and they did an excellent job at that.

tl;dr No MMO is a "wow-killer" the second it launches, but with good foundation to build upon, any MMO can become a brilliant game.

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Originally Posted by TenraiNagi

You are making a valid point, but wasn't WoW a simple standard MMO when it first came out? It did nothing ground breaking for the genre. It borrowed many of the successful features in other MMOs, mashed them together, and executed them well. After building its pretty solid foundation, the game expanded upon it and started climbing all the way to the throne it sits on now.

Isn't that what FFXIV is doing currently? Yes it is still at the standard MMO level. And a high quality one, probably the highest from all that's out there. Given time after launch, every aspect gets improved and enhanced (more classes/ jobs, story content, new worlds, etc...). Then an MMO truly flourishes to show what it's capable of.

No one can expect the dev team to create an MMO in 2 years only and expect it to be the best of the best in every aspect, and redefining the genre in ways no one ever did (this is where the interviewer seemed ignorant). They wanted to make it to standard MMO level, and they did an excellent job at that.

tl;dr No MMO is a "wow-killer" the second it launches, but with good foundation to build upon, any MMO can become a brilliant game.

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Yeah, though one major difference (And this is more industry related than with the gaming populace) Is that This is the first MMO attempting a ressurection on such a scale. Sure there are attempts to revive favorites done by others (Hellgate being one example off the top of my head) but Most modern MMO simply peter out and go "Free-to-play" in an attempt to wean whatever money is left from a game's audience, an absolutely none of them ever gain the shine of their previous attempt.

SE not only wants to supass 1.0, it wants to succeed in such a manner that its contemporaries (SW:TOR, DC Online, TERA, etc.) had not.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success. Oh they can live just fine, but they mostly just coast on the contrived.

Every MMO that has claimed to be original, to add something new and drastic to the genre, has depended on a gimmick or ultimately small addition to gameplay that does nothing to improve or change the old structure that's set in place. Its never really expanded and it's stagnating. We have seen MMO's do WoW's thing 10 times better but a lack of content to compare and the lack of actual nuance keep people away.

Who is going to be interested in a game that adds nothing new? Pretty visuals and story only last so long as evidenced by every other MMO to come out in the past 5 years. In the end, we're all just doing the same KILL X OF Y questlines and rushing to endgame instances and no one has been brave enough to challenge that no matter the claims of originality.

To actually believe that the basic structure of MMORPGs is something that's already peaked, that you can't or shouldn't change from it is extremely shallow minded and keeps every new release from impressing crowds. No other genre is so hell bound to stick to a formula in the fear that it will fall apart. Even shooters have their occasional Portals and Metroid Primes. Games that aren't afraid to add concepts from other genres to restructure the core into something worth experiencing. Something that actually stands out and still retains popularity.

Bottom line: We've done this before and it has never worked out better than just "okay". If success is determined by playing it safe and resting in the expected, adding only to most shallow aspects of its design, then it's hardly something I would consider worth attaining.

Aside 1: I still fully intend to play and enjoy this game. I just think it's dangerous to not consider what we've learned form release after release of underwhelming MMOs ever sense LOTRO failed to make any lasting impression.
Aside 2: Is your shift key broken?

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i didnt read carefully.. but i think i partly have to disagree..

all people seem to talk about that MMorpgs needs to invent the whole wheel new.. But wasnt that what most of the MMO's in the last years tried to do? Warhammer public quests, rift public quests, SWTOR questing through tons of cutscenes (linear), TERA having action hacknslay combat, "The Secret World" going for a different setting.

does that made the games more successfull? it did not.

my personal opinion is: the MMOrpg is for most of the players a total new genre compared to all singleplayer genres which we are used to for about 20 years (singelplayer rpgs, jump and runs etc.), and that they cant handle this factor.


But woo*.. did they changed a lot till today, concerning these old genres? no they did not.
there are turn based single rpgs (Heroes of might and magic, Baldurs gate), like there are some with action combat (Diablo etc.), realtime combat (skyrim, gothic), and an atb turned combat like FF.. so whats wrong about it, that every MMO offers a different combat system? congrats to those MMOrpgs where action combat (TERA) or real time combat (TESO) just have arrived.. but you dont need to speak bad about a game which uses a different (some call it "traditional") gameplay at the same time. thats my opinion.

Besides that... FF ARR offers indeed some "special features".. the final fantasy franchise itself (SHIVA, GILGAMESH, CHOCOBOS, an eastern epic storyline)... and for the gameplay it uses a LIMIT-BREAK system and jobchange system.. which i think are unique things and which are standing for FINAL FANTASY also!
And the Content is much more based on group play than other MMorpgs (not only for the endgame)

nobody complains, that an "the elder scrolls game" plays almost the same like an "the elder scrolls game" which is over 10 years old... many people say that a modern mmorpg needs to offer anything different then "clicking skills"...


Refering to TERA and Blade&Soul (Which are using an action Hack'n'slay combat sytsem) im personally asking myself.. if that kinda gameplay is the best ever, why is nobody playing these two games?


personally im sick of these "opinions"
i could "throw up" reading statements like this on Gamespot, too. its just retarded.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

That's something I do like.
He's been very factual with everything. No PR/marketing bull to try to hype us up for a letdown.

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Kind of like 1.0 was lol

So here we have a review (of sorts) which is the opinion of someone who isn't heavily invested in the Final Fantasy franchise (as it seems?).

Are we just going to say 'Well they're just BAD' to everyone who posts something about FFXIV in negative light?


I hate to break to you, but chances are a lot of people share this point of view.. and calling them stupid for having that opinion is probably going to make things worse.

"Unfortunately, a lot of players have already given up on Final Fantasy XIV." The question is do we really even want those people playing our game? If you are at all a fan of the Final Fantasy series or even just a fan of 11 much like myself, you owe it to yourself as a fan, and owe it to Yoshi P and the rest of the dev team who worked so hard on this project in such a short amount of time to at least give their game a second try. As for me a big MMO fan and player for almost the past decade involving mostly pvp, I've always loved FFXI for it subtle nuances much like I did with FFXIV. Sure both games needed a little work especially in 14's case but they have already made the MMO for the person who loves those style of games, both in XIV 1.0 & XI. I think I can speak for most of us here when I say you had me sold at 'new gen Final Fantasy MMO'.

That being said I believe 2.0 is doing a lot of things that will sway people either on the fence about playing or people who played 1.0 at launch and were left with a bad taste in their mouth. Maybe even a few who disregarded the game from the beginning. But if you are going to be one of those people who won't give 2.0 a shot for no other reason than "You tried it once before and it was bad" then it will truly be your loss.