Game Economy and the gil redenomination

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Originally Posted by Ferth

In no way, shape, or form is this a counter RMT measure. Getting angry about it because it doesn't fix the issue with RMT is like getting angry at your car because it doesn't fly.

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I didnt say it WAS meant to be a counter RMT measure.. read my post. I simply said that it would have the effect of driving up RMT profits, and that the end result is the purchasing power of the gil you have now WILL be diminished by continued inflation, since the real economy in this game has NOTHING to do with NPC prices.

The prices people decide to list items for isn't going to be proportionate to 1/10th of what people list the same items for now lol, you guys are oblivious for believing that. Maybe some items will be listed for less than 1/10th of what they sell for now, but probably more of them will be listed for more, and no matter what if someone needs something that they can't farm themselves they will buy it.

This game isn't like the real world economy. People can, and do buy gil in this game, and it has a huge effect on the driving prices up in this game. With all the gil being bought more people can buy stuff, and as such undercutting doesn't have time to have as much of an effect on average sales prices. You guy think because they are cutting your savings by 1/10th it's all going to magically balance out the economy, but it isn't going to work out that way. You're just being naive. Prices are obviously going to be reduced but it's impossible to predict what the total average drop will be, and that chances are small its going to actually be 1/10th. It could turn out to be 2/10ths or even 9/10ths, but either way we're the ones who lose.

Even if this was like the real world economy your income doesn't effect the price of sales as much as you would think... The average income of households have increased over time, but the amount they've increase isn't proportionate to the cost of things. That's to say, even though people make more money today than they did in 1950 for example, the cost of a car today vs the car cost/income ratio in 1950 is way more.

These statistics are for the united states:
The average income in 1950 was $3,210.00, and the average cost of a new car was $1,510.00
The average income in 2011 was $31,111.00, and the average cost of a new car was $30,303.00
You do the math...

How much money you have isn't as big of a factor in the price of sales, that's true for real life, and it's especially true for a game where you can make money appear out of nowhere just by calling your friends over in China.

P.s.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Unless you are saying that angry as you are you're still willing to stupidly over pay for items after 2.0 and you assume everyone else is as dumb as you are your argument is a lot of huff and bluster.

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You should stop calling people dumb, coming from you it sounds ludicrous. Not a good strategy... lol

they're dropping all gil influx by a 1/10 multiplier, not just NPC prices. quest rewards, enemy drops, npc sale prices, everything. it's the same thing as trading in $1's for $10's across the board. you're now holding 1,000 $10's instead of 10,000 $1's, and you earn 50 $10's a day instead of 500 $1's. this is why they say your earnings and your purchasing power in the greater economy will not change relative to the way it is now.

Right, but you are blaming the inflation on the RMT and complaining that they will still continue to effect the economy from the stand point that redenomination isn't going to fix it. When it's not supposed to. It's not a counter measure for future inflation it's a reactionary measure to current inflation.

And really profit margin for RMT is not going to shift much either. They have to deal with the same loss as everyone else and if they don't adjust accordingly their sales will suffer. They won't suddenly have tons more gil than they used to that is suddenly worth more.

My guess is RMT hasn't been a huge priority for the dev team yet because, really, who cares about buying money in ffxiv right now?

When they decide to take actual measures against RMT then you can critique and make suggestions on what their plan is. But saying this is a useless endeavor because it doesn't fix something it's not intended to fix is a silly argument to make.

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Originally Posted by Promethevs

they're dropping all gil influx by a 1/10 multiplier, not just NPC prices. quest rewards, enemy drops, npc sale prices, everything. it's the same thing as trading in $1's for $10's across the board. you're now holding 1,000 $10's instead of 10,000 $1's, and you earn 50 $10's a day instead of 500 $1's. this is why they say your earnings and your purchasing power in the greater economy will not change relative to the way it is now.

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People don't farm quests or kill mobs for gil, and no one really buys items from npcs... This games main form of income generation is the market wards, so none of that really matters.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

-snipped- (saving space)

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The prices WILL be lowered (but be the same in perspective to gil buying power). The speed that they lower is unkown human factor.

But because ALL inflow gil is at 1/10 its original FFXIV 1.0 value, NO ONE will pay the 1.0 value when examining the situation over a long period of time in 2.0. Paying 1.0 price in 2.0 is paying 10 TIMES the price you would normally.

Its safe to assume that some prices will slowly drop over time, as well as different items will drop significantly or not at all because SE said that some items will not be as good or be better / harder to get.

Summarized:

Yes, with certainty (with variation if there is change in the item itself from 1.0 to 2.0). For 1.0 servers transferring to 2.0 it will likely happen over a curve. There will be 2.0 servers only for new characters - their economy will likely settle on a more accurate number faster (though having a new economy will cause some of its own shorter lasting variations).

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Right, but you are blaming the inflation on the RMT and complaining that they will still continue to effect the economy from the stand point that redenomination isn't going to fix it. When it's not supposed to. It's not a counter measure for future inflation it's a reactionary measure to current inflation.

And really profit margin for RMT is not going to shift much either. They have to deal with the same loss as everyone else and if they don't adjust accordingly their sales will suffer. They won't suddenly have tons more gil than they used to that is suddenly worth more.

My guess is RMT hasn't been a huge priority for the dev team yet because, really, who cares about buying money in ffxiv right now?

When they decide to take actual measures against RMT then you can critique and make suggestions on what their plan is. But saying this is a useless endeavor because it doesn't fix something it's not intended to fix is a silly argument to make.

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Well then we simply have a disagreement. You are basing your assumption of RMTs profits not going up based on the math (they loose 90% too). I am basing mine off of human nature. You log in, see 1/10th the gil you had, you then think "I better earn more." but if you are a gil-buyer you will call. you are right that there will be relatively the same SUPPLY after 2,0 as before. But you are forgetting the second law of economics. With a sudden reduction in the amount of gil in gil-buyers loot-pool, demand will skyrocket.

either way i have to get back to work. Cant stay on forums forever. You have your opinion and i have mine. We will both eventually see who is right, and if you are the beer is on me (though I might not be in game long enough to see)

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Originally Posted by Mijin

People don't farm quests or kill mobs for gil, and no one really buys items from npcs... This games main form of income generation is the market wards, so none of that really matters.

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But how do you think gil came to be in the first place? The game had 0 gil in its economy upon release, Guildleves and vendoring items is how the gil came to be. Player selling a player an item doesnt create gil in the system, all that other stuff you say doesnt matter does.

No one is arguing that people will or will not buy items in 2.0 for 1.0 prices, I highly doubt the majority will try to sell for 1.0 prices anyway. The issue here is that they told us buying power would not change. That is a flat out lie.

Obviously prices will go down for the most part, however the market wards are what determine everything and SE has 0 control over that.

People aren't upset that their 1 mil is going to be 100k, at least that's not why I'm upset. I'm annoyed because they said buying power would remain the same and it clearly won't.

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Originally Posted by wolfsraine

No one is arguing that people will or will not buy items in 2.0 for 1.0 prices, I highly doubt the majority will try to sell for 1.0 prices anyway. The issue here is that they told us buying power would not change. That is a flat out lie.

Obviously prices will go down for the most part, however the market wards are what determine everything and SE has 0 control over that.

People aren't upset that their 1 mil is going to be 100k, at least that's not why I'm upset. I'm annoyed because they said buying power would remain the same and it clearly won't.

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Buying power is the same in relation to npcs, quests, and the other things that only matter. Players have the ability to ignore SE concrete but they will lose over time. I encourage all those rich people to waste their money on 10x the prices, then I will be the rich one without farming.

So yes, Buying power is the same (at least in a long run perspective). If you are taking an instantaneous snap shot of the first day of FFXIV ARR then maybe not. But your gil's buying power changes everyday in FFXIV 1.0 as well.