7.5 MSQ [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Why don't they know about the Solstice.

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There is an extremely high likelihood Emet knew, and it just... wasn't relevant, the way to fix the Solstice is to Rejoin all Reflections, that was already Emet's goal, so the whole thing was a non-issue from his perspective, plus it entirely was not an issue so long as Hydaelyn was alive, so there wasn't even a reason to use it as an argument, Hydaelyn was our boss, he had zero reason to think the Scions would ever kill her.

Don't get me wrong, it is retconny in nature in the sense that perhaps it is a relevant enough point that it should've been brought up, but it also doesn't really contradict anything and I find his behavior still makes sense.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

There is an extremely high likelihood Emet knew, and it just... wasn't relevant, the way to fix the Solstice is to Rejoin all Reflections, that was already Emet's goal, so the whole thing was a non-issue from his perspective, plus it entirely was not an issue so long as Hydaelyn was alive, so there wasn't even a reason to use it as an argument, Hydaelyn was our boss, he had zero reason to think the Scions would ever kill her.

Don't get me wrong, it is retconny in nature in the sense that perhaps it is a relevant enough point that it should've been brought up, but it also doesn't really contradict anything and I find his behavior still makes sense.

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This is not compelling because he could have framed it just the same way Halamrut did.

I don't find it reconny just kinda cowardly. I think 7.5 shows they know there is a problem, and all NPCs can offer is "well its our problem anyway". Not satisfying.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

There is an extremely high likelihood Emet knew, and it just... wasn't relevant, the way to fix the Solstice is to Rejoin all Reflections, that was already Emet's goal, so the whole thing was a non-issue from his perspective, plus it entirely was not an issue so long as Hydaelyn was alive, so there wasn't even a reason to use it as an argument, Hydaelyn was our boss, he had zero reason to think the Scions would ever kill her.
Don't get me wrong, it is retconny in nature in the sense that perhaps it is a relevant enough point that it should've been brought up, but it also doesn't really contradict anything and I find his behavior still makes sense.

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Emet-Selch doesn’t actually know everything.
If he did, the Thirteenth, the Void wouldn’t even exist.
That alone shows his limits.
He’s incredibly good at dealing with problems after the fact, but not necessarily at preventing them in the first place.

And I don’t think Hydaelyn “wanted” to leave either.
By the time we meet her, she’s clearly at the end of her strength.
She’s been sustaining the world for so long that she can barely manifest directly anymore.
That’s why she needed Minfilia to act as her voice.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Emet-Selch doesn’t actually know everything.

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Perhaps, but he was a close acquaintance of the lady who claims to have known of the Solstice since "time immemorial", it is an extremely safe assumption that she attempted to tell him at some point, and maybe he even took her warning serious, but it simply wasn't a concern for him, for the aforementioned reasons.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Perhaps, but he was a close acquaintance of the lady who claims to have known of the Solstice since "time immemorial", it is an extremely safe assumption that she attempted to tell him at some point, and maybe he even took her warning serious, but it simply wasn't a concern for him, for the aforementioned reasons.

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I don't think Emet-Selch knew, personally. With the exception of the Unsundered, the Ascians didn't strike me as a super close-knit group, but rather just sharing a common goal (Rejoinings) and working towards that. We know very little about Halmarut so far, so whether she would've shared her knowledge with the whole group or kept it to herself is more or less up in the air.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

My thoughts, although I would prefer if the story addressed your point and didn't just leave us to speculate: Halmarut the Ancient would not have known anything other than "nature heals itself"; she didn't know there would be Shards. Once awakened as an Ascian, maybe she realized this and brought it to Elidibus (who, with his patchy memory, just kind of melds it all into "we definitely need Rejoinings" where the reasons kind of escape him). There's a moment in a side quest where Elidibus returns to the Aetherial Sea and you hear his thought of something like "but with the way the Star is going now...", which would presumably refer to Halmarut's prediction. I don't see why Halmarut would feel the need to share it with everyone, considering they're doing Rejoinings before destroying Hydaelyn anyway so it doesn't even register an alarm bell. Afterwards, I'm guessing she decides to do what she's doing now and continue the work of either Rejoining or coming up with an alternate solution (Calyx and the Winterers).

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I also had the thought that maybe the "time immemorial" is complete bullshit or partial truth; she might have known that the Shards were unnatural and that nature leans towards healing itself, but didn't put together the fact that a natural rejoining would happen until after Hydaelyn was gone. That's entirely just wild speculation on my part. SE really opened the floodgates with "time immemorial" lol.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Perhaps, but he was a close acquaintance of the lady who claims to have known of the Solstice since "time immemorial", it is an extremely safe assumption that she attempted to tell him at some point, and maybe he even took her warning serious, but it simply wasn't a concern for him, for the aforementioned reasons.

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Well, I just found out the Watcher on the Moon knew nothing about the Solstice either, and he wasn’t even sure whether Hydaelyn herself knew about it.
If even the Watcher had no knowledge of it, then the Ascians almost certainly didn’t know either.
Which means Halmarut probably only figured it out after Hydaelyn was already gone.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Well, I just found out the Watcher on the Moon knew nothing about the Solstice either, and he wasn’t even sure whether Hydaelyn herself knew about it.
If even the Watcher had no knowledge of it, then the Ascians almost certainly didn’t know either.
Which means Halmarut probably only figured it out after Hydaelyn was already gone.

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She foresaw it happening as she stated in the cutscene. Now I will return to just reading this thread. :D

Anythings fine with me as long as we dont get 1 character taking 90% of the screentime again

Including the scions, i know they never will but i wish they'd get benched for a expansion. We could have azems crystal summon them for trials/dungeons already. They dont need to be here.

The fact that deryk is stuck in side quest hell is frustrating here as deryk is the only person alive right now who knew BOTH Azem and venat and knew them recently enough to potentially know something

Whether it’s about azem’s intentions for the key or about venat’s knowledge of the solstice as the 12 were left to care for the world so if venat knew anything about what would happen without herself of zodiark gone (ESPECIALLY since she knew she’d eventually die during the WOL’s time as per elpis) then the person who’d know would be deryk

They need to pull him out of side quest hell as it’s actually a gaping hole on the story to not seek him out

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There is a major issue that I (potentially) see as well:

Halmarut wants to do a pre-emptive rejoining. The one about to happen is on the Fourth. But in order for a rejoining to happen, there must but a calamity on the Source to make the Source "want" the ice element, right? I do not see any evidence of this incoming calamity on the Source. We've heard nothing about it - we know the Source like our backyard at this point!

When we had a similar threat of an incoming rejoining, the 8th Umbral Calamity where we went to The First, we had this big threat ongoing with Black Rose. So where is this happening?

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Originally Posted by Fordragon

We cannot be sure if these preparations are still necessary, now that Hydealyn no longer keeps the reflections apart.

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There's a few details that more or less confirm that the source no longer needs prepping for a calamity; the ascians only needed one more calamity to essentially win, which implies that more efficient methods would have opened up eliminating the need for further calamities. We also know that Azem's key can, at least post-Hydaelyn's death, rejoin entire regions of a shard to the source without need of a prepped calamity.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

4. Elpis is not post sundering What? We were shown cinematics of what happens, that does not confirm the Elpis conjoined to us has experienced sundering. Halmarut and Azem theoretically would be there. Even if they aren't, you did not answer the "everyone is an idiot" or "she didn't tell anyone" problems. Was no one stidying this? Guess not. Contrived. So many people have to be oblivious that it means its all, once again, a herring.

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The Solstice is a direct consequence of the Sundering, there's not really anything we could do in Elpis to stop it without causing further timey-wimey issues. And the Ascians wouldn't have given the Solstice any real consideration as they were convinced that they'd succeed in their own method to make Etheirys whole again.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I don't exactly remember the timetable for the setup of the Eigth but I want to say the ball was rolling on that in the early patches with the mention of Black Rose. In any case I am almost certain it wasn't all set up in one patch, which means either writers forgot or its another indicator this premise is misdirection.

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The Eight Umbral Calamity was set up to be a calamity of light all the way back in ARR patches with Thordan, but his defeat(and the incorrect triggering of the Flood of Light) messed everything up which is why Elidibus stepped in and tried to fast-track the rejoining by bringing the Warriors of Darkness to the Source. I expect Elidibus only set his sights on Black Rose as a calamity trigger once Zenos's body became available after he committed suicide.