The new player experience and how FFXIV fails as an MMO.

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Originally Posted by missTori

I think it does fail as an MMO which is the core problem. if they marketed it as a single player thing like genshin with some aspects of co-op, then people would not expect way more than they do. This is mostly a single player story game unless you want to raid; but even raiding gets boring in this game

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All the "MM" in "MMORPG" means is that there is a large number of players occupying the same digital space at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

An oft-repeated myth IMO. Sure there is hostility from raiders as is so evident on these boards, but the content itself doesn't put up a wall of hostility. The barrier is one of tedium. Or more generously, it's just a choice.

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I mean there is the tedium if you don't like it, but there is also the fact that it kind of neuters newbies from liking it because it gets inaccessible. CBU3 dumbed down jobs in order to make it more accessible to people to go do Extremes+. but they don't understand that the accessibility wasn't on job complexities but on how they have designed their content.

Or they just straight up lied, and dumbed down the jobs because it was easier to design them that way.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I mean there is the tedium if you don't like it, but there is also the fact that it kind of neuters newbies from liking it because it gets inaccessible. CBU3 dumbed down jobs in order to make it more accessible to people to go do Extremes+. but they don't understand that the accessibility wasn't on job complexities but on how they have designed their content.

Or they just straight up lied, and dumbed down the jobs because it was easier to design them that way.

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100% agree on that.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

All the "MM" in "MMORPG" means is that there is a large number of players occupying the same digital space at the same time.

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Sure, but the description was created for games where that was a palpable part of the actual gameplay. Outside of the latest EM content and FATEs early in each expansion, that's rarely the case here. You could reach a majority of the game's new-player-facing gameplay in any single-player game that offers drop-in multiplayer through which to replace the core supporting NPCs in content (say, Divinity 2, BG3).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Sure, but the description was created for games where that was a palpable part of the actual gameplay. Outside of the latest EM content and FATEs early in each expansion, that's rarely the case here. You could reach a majority of the game's new-player-facing gameplay in any single-player game that offers drop-in multiplayer through which to replace the core supporting NPCs in content (say, Divinity 2, BG3).

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And from the origin of the genre, "solo play" has always been supported, as outlined by the Josh Strife Hayes video I refer to often.

I would agree that FFXIV for some reason makes playing with others difficult in a lot of content.

If your friend does not like the walking around doing quests and reading dialogue, this game is not for them. Think of this game like a really long movie with fight intermissions in between. This game is a core Final Fantasy game before it is an MMO.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

If your friend does not like the walking around doing quests and reading dialogue, this game is not for them. Think of this game like a really long movie with fight intermissions in between. This game is a core Final Fantasy game before it is an MMO.

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The only core FF game that has a comparable ratio of cutscenes to gameplay is XVI.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I think "incompetent" misses the point. In NA/EU I suspect Group 1 is the majority, and I'd suggest their ignorance of one facet of the game (PvE) is a legitimate choice.

Maybe I'm just projecting, but I think a large chunk of Group 1 does know that they can do more damage in a dungeon if they studied one of Wesk's or Caetsu's guides and memorized the optimal rotations. But why on earth would they? PvE does not interest everyone, particularly when it approaches rotation optimization. This is particularly true in FFXIV because the PvE is just plain bad.

I'd agree with you that this is a choice on SE's part. What the game "teaches" you in MSQ dungeons is that if you run out of the bad fast enough and hit the flashy buttons occasionally, everything will work out. Why do you suppose SE has made that choice? It's because they recognize that those interested in optimization are a minority. If this were not the case and the intent, would we not have in-game damage meters? The game is like this because the only optimization SE cares about is sub-count.

As to creating a "more fun and engaging experience," manifestly no. People are leaving because DT has raised MSQ dungeon difficulty to a point that a part of Group 1 doesn't want to deal with.



An oft-repeated myth IMO. Sure there is hostility from raiders as is so evident on these boards, but the content itself doesn't put up a wall of hostility. The barrier is one of tedium. Or more generously, it's just a choice.

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I'm not talking about optimisation. I'm talking about the basics. I don't think the game should allow people to hit level 100 as a WHM with only glare and cure 1 on their hotbars.

In what sense do you find Dawntrail dungeons harder than previous expansions? I think most of the complaints on Dt release were coming from newer players who started during Endwalker and hadn't played a dungeon without being ilvl synced before. Some of the bosses one or two overlapping mechanics but that's fairly normal. Overall I think the dungeons are the easiest they've ever been. There are no interrupts any more. No debuffs that need to be cleansed. There are a ridiculous number of forced single pulls, no big pulls bigger than 2 packs, and tanks have been massively overbuffed again.

I think the dungeons have been at their "hardest" ever. Fast paced DDR everywhere, gotcha mechanics, crapton of visuals cues to keep track of else you get your vuln stack (or potentially die), until they decided it's not working or they don't want to do it anymore somehow with The Underkeep which feels back to the usual formula.
If anything that's why the battle system has been dumbed down so much that it doesn't get in the way, and the tank literally cannot die.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

I'm not talking about optimisation. I'm talking about the basics. I don't think the game should allow people to hit level 100 as a WHM with only glare and cure 1 on their hotbars.

In what sense do you find Dawntrail dungeons harder than previous expansions? I think most of the complaints on Dt release were coming from newer players who started during Endwalker and hadn't played a dungeon without being ilvl synced before. Some of the bosses one or two overlapping mechanics but that's fairly normal. Overall I think the dungeons are the easiest they've ever been. There are no interrupts any more. No debuffs that need to be cleansed. There are a ridiculous number of forced single pulls, no big pulls bigger than 2 packs, and tanks have been massively overbuffed again.

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The fact we don't have hard pulls since time in memorial is such a tragedy to me. Remember in ShB when they dared to put healing down mechanics on some mobs? Whatever happened to that?