Low level Combat gameplay and Job identity is HORRIBLE.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

I'm saying as long as the 50+ stuff feels good to play

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Which of course is the exact problem that this whole thread is about. Classes only really come into their own at max level, and do not feel good to play at lower levels. Even level 80 gameplay isn't nearly as much fun as 90, and that quickly ramps down at lower levels.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

Like all you are arguing for is changing the game for the worse with the excuse of "I wanna hit more buttons!".

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The idea I was replying to would make the game better.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

That is a small price to pay for the way the classes grow as you level through every expansion though

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That has nothing to do with anything I've said. I get the feeling your mixing up comments and opinions from other people, and project them on me.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

If you do then I suggest you go get help.

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Rude.

Easily solved by letting us learn abilities way earlier,
everyone should have AOE at lvl 15!.
Reworking some of bosses, but it seem like an unrealistic wish..

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Originally Posted by Valence

On what metrics though? The higher your job level compared to the dungeon, the less damage output to make up for all the additional abilities? Jobs don't exactly have a linear progression in leveling, what would end up being fine in certain cases would go completely overboard either way in others.

On top of what people already brought up, you're literally introducing one more variable affecting damage (and wildly at that) on top of gear differences and skill level and you could end up with the same dungeons taking 30min with some groups and 5min with others.

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I'm not sure what you mean. All that matters, at least in terms of defeating enemies, is DPS. Level 90 does X DPS. Level 1 does Y DPS. To make them equal, X*(Y/X).

It doesn't have to be precise either since damage variance exists for a number of reasons. A fresh level 15 in Satasha is going to deal less damage than a level 15 that ran Hall of the Novice. Both will deal less damage than someone in Ironworks gear. There is even more variance if someone didn't do job quests to unlock abilities. Whatever errors are made in syncing down damage will be covered by everything else and be undetectable. Dungeons won't take any more or less time than they do now.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

To those that argue against potency synching: It really isnt all that hard. Really, it can theoretically all be calculated in an Excel sheet.
1. Let Excel calculate the Potency Per Minute (PPM) for each class, for each level
2. Let Excel calculate the difference between PPM for each level, from each level
3. Implement a debuff that reduces Potency by n%, as determined by your level, and the aforementioned Excel sheet.

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Exactly. I'll just add that a per class adjustment can be skipped if the scaling already in use for enemy HP is used for the ratios.

I think they need to do something. But I don't think it should come at the expense of culling down the content even further. E.g., I don't think dungeons, trials and the such should be faster, they need to maintain the same level if not a bit higher.

It's well and good saying "So what if they are faster" -- This comes a lot at the expense to new players and I don't think an abundance of "OMG LOOK AT ALL THOSE SICK SKILLS AND GFX.. Oh wait? The boss is dead...?" is going to compensate for how much more dire and unengaging running it will be for those new players. Everything is already unengaging as is with nothing at that level having any appropriate HP whatsoever. Things looking cool is not going to encourage them when it comes to the expense of their experience. They can get that same level of encouragement watching a raid video on YouTube, or bunking into a random Twitch stream,

Easier and quicker runs for new players only damages their experience, and their learning opportunities, even if said content is relatively low level.

That said, I do find it interesting to look at it in potency per minute scaling, so that the jobs are scaled to the appropriate potency per minute for that level, rather than retaining the same potency they would have at level 90. This would be the most balanced way about approaching it, rather than just pure level and stat sync.

As a reference, a level synced PLD can kill the bats in Sastasha in ~7-8 hits of their Riot Blade combo. Monk can do it in 6. You wouldn't even get a full combo off before they died.

As for making low level equivalents, they shouldn't just make low level equivalents for the level 90 rotation and give them to you by level 50, that would be silly. Rotations have become much more sophisticated since we were in ARR and so the players need more time to build up to them. However, this doesn't mean you cannot add some mechanics earlier. Giving PLD a magic attack, like Holy Dart or something, which later upgrades to Holy Spirit would be quite nice. It is also more than PLD has ever had ST wise before 50. They shouldn't get the Sword Oath stacks and they shouldn't get a weaker blade combo. Blade combo is meant to be an upgrade for Holy Spirit in burst phases after all.

Other things could be as simple as letting Warrior gain Beast Gauge with their AoE combo before level 74. Even if it is just 10 gauge at level 45 (when they learn Steel Cyclone) and upgraded to 20 at 74.

It is these little things that would make it better.

On a side note, it would be nice if they made things hit bit harder during the leveling dungeons and whatnot, there's no point in having mechanics if they do 10% of the persons hp pool and have 5 second windup.

I do not mean to make them insufferable and stonewall new players, but the scaling has gotten VERY out of hand in favor of players making almost nothing being even remotely threatening.

It doesn't feel good because they got rid of a lot of skills, spells and point management systems over the years, plus we had one 'numbers squish' - there isn't any real way to fix the aftermath of those changes except to just encourage players to get out of those lower levels as quickly as possible; the player spends a decent amount of their time in mid-range levels anyway.

Those lower levels may also need a bit of an overhaul in at least it's systems that tutorializes and gives direction to newer players; we have the Novice Halls and those work pretty well, but we need something that gets more players to make use of systems like 'Leve Quests' as those give lots of Exp, resources, and even gear.

They should stop doing stuff like deleting stoneskin at level 34 and adding divine benison at level 66.

1. Better Item level synch, Having gear be synched down is cool and all, but the fact is the synch doesn't do enough to make a lot of dungeons, Trials from the ARR era to feel anything (for example you can take king moogle mog double tank buster alone with no mits and survive with fairly high HP), A lot of dungeon bosses don't hit hard ect.
2. AOE's earlier, AOE attacks in general need to be all around 15, even healers.
3. Third and most importantly, Fix the job "feel" most jobs should have their base rotation (excluding some things like burst buttons is fine), Core abilities to their "Job Identity"

I'll list off 3 Examples of 3 different roles that will make my point clear in what sort of changes I'd want for other roles in the categories.

For tank Paladin, is a great example for what not to do when designing a role for lower levels, In general it feels dull, boring and in general its early gameplay is very offputting. It also doesn't "feel" like a actual Paladin until way later, How to fix this would be to give Magic spells eariler (weaker versions are fine), small self sustain tied to it (it takes way too long to get any form of sustain), Allow it to have a gap closer way eariler, For other tanks they should also get short mitigation similar to sheltron way eariler.

For Dps Black Mage, Do I even need to begin how different and bad it feels at lower levels, It's super low DPS for no reason aswell, allow skills core to it's gameplay like Fire 4 to be there eariler, Even if that means a "eariler less flashy version" of it existing.

For Healer White Mage, Lillies? yeah you don't get damage neutral until... Level 74? While other healers get a bunch of OCGD's, Just doesn't really give white mage a lot to manage early game, It doesn't feel all too great. While I don't mind healers GCD healing, I think if you're going to design it for the most part where healers shouldn't GCD heal then white mage should get skills eariler that are OGCD, Or the entire lilly system needs to be moved down.

to summarise I just think things need to be moved way eariler, Let upgrades, burst buttons & some (not all) Utilities be gained through 50+ but a class should have it's core structure in place.

There's a reason for it - tutorial purposes. New players, and i mean actual new players who have no idea how MMOs work, struggle to remember to press a second or third button so they need a long time to ease themselves into it. It makes sense and i agree with it.

It's fine though - if you're so skilled i'm sure you can easily level up super fast and get those extra skill. I'd say having fewer skills actually makes the low levels more strategic where you optimise GCDs so you can pull more enemies faster.