A question for SCH mains and enjoyers

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

So bring back Flash for Paladin and give each Tank a flash equivalent:

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Sure.

Now you just have to convince the parse community not to care and have the Devs cut the DPS requirements of encounters by about 20%.

It also is funny to me that the Tank forum people saw through what you were doing pretty much instantly. I don't think you realize that they don't feel any better about the role than you do about Healers (as your previous comment about no other role having such vitriol also indicated).

The difference is, my posts aren't bad faith/ulterior motive, they're just in opposition to the echo chamber here, but are serious propositions and attempts at compromise or raising points to that end. Your post wasn't a serious proposition at all, it was trying to prove a point.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

It also is funny to me that the Tank forum people saw through what you were doing pretty much instantly. I don't think you realize that they don't feel any better about the role than you do about Healers (as your previous comment about no other role having such vitriol also indicated).

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You mean doing what you do to us constantly?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You mean doing what you do to us constantly?

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/sigh

At least read my SHORT posts before replying to them:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

The difference is, my posts aren't bad faith/ulterior motive, they're just in opposition to the echo chamber here, but are serious propositions and attempts at compromise or raising points to that end. Your post wasn't a serious proposition at all, it was trying to prove a point.

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In all fairness, the fact that you keep claiming that the healer forums are an echo chamber shows that you are also engaging in some amount of bad faith. The healer forums have a healthy amount of disagreement among the people who post here, the only thing we all are unified on is that the healer role is currently unsatisfying to play.

Look at the DPS forums. The SAM mains are full of a diverse set of players who don't always agree, but they are unified in wanting Kaiten back, would you consider them an echo chamber? The RDM mains also don't always agree, they have people who want RDM to go in completely different directions, yet they're all unified in saying RDM's damage is too low, would you consider them an echo chamber? If you're adamant that the healer forums are an echo chamber despite us disagreeing with each other on a wide variety of things, then you should also consider the DPS forums an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If that's the case, then to steal aggro from a Provoke only tank, a DPS would have to do (2000 x 10) potency within the 25s before Provoke comes back off CD. Not 20000 damage, 20000 potency. Is there even a class in the game that does 20000 potency in a minute, let alone 25 seconds? I know from maths I did a while back that WHM is around 8000 per min, maybe 'burst phase in raidbuffs' is enough on an exceptionally 2min heavy class like DRK or such but yeh seems kinda difficult to reach to me

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Yeah, I doubt it. A WHM with all healbuffs up spamming Cure 3 and oGCDs on 8 targets might be enough to rip aggro from a single Provoke before it cools down again.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

In all fairness, the fact that you keep claiming that the healer forums are an echo chamber shows that you are also engaging in some amount of bad faith.

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'Bad faith' means dishonesty, not simply being mistaken.

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Originally Posted by vetch

'Bad faith' means dishonesty, not simply being mistaken.

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It's likely not a mistake, he has been calling the healer forums an echo chamber for a very long time now, despite people disagreeing with each other in threads where he posts in, so it's not like he doesn't see it. It's looking more like trying to manipulate the facts the longer it goes on, hence "some bad faith". (I'm not saying all he does is engage in bad faith, I'm only stating this particular instance is bad faith)

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Originally Posted by Renathras

/sigh

At least read my SHORT posts before replying to them:

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Except you very regularly do make bad faith posts that are posted with an ulterior motive. You seem to think someone telling you, "no actually, that's not how that works" makes that bad faith. But your definition of "bad faith" is just "someone disagrees with me."

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Originally Posted by Aravell

It's likely not a mistake, he has been calling the healer forums an echo chamber for a very long time now, despite people disagreeing with each other in threads where he posts in, so it's not like he doesn't see it. It's looking more like trying to manipulate the facts the longer it goes on, hence "some bad faith". (I'm not saying all he does is engage in bad faith, I'm only stating this particular instance is bad faith)

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Some people hold mistaken beliefs their entire lives. It doesn't become arguing in bad faith just because you've presented evidence for your argument and the person hasn't been convinced.

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Originally Posted by vetch

Yeah, I doubt it. A WHM with all healbuffs up spamming Cure 3 and oGCDs on 8 targets might be enough to rip aggro from a single Provoke before it cools down again.

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IIRC overheal is also weighted at 0.5 threat per HP of Overheal (in contrast to damage's 1:1) so you'd actually have needed 40000 effective potency of overheal to rip threat, Cure3's 600, on 8 people, would be 4800, halve that (cos it's overheal) and you have 2400. So you could, I guess, cast 8 Cure 3's (20s, at 2.50 GCD), on a full team of 8 players, generate the required 20000 threat (and run yourself completely out of mana), and then have the tank... steal the threat back from you like 5 seconds later with their freshly reset Provoke? I guess that means that, while hard to time, it's technically possible for a healer to do this at just the right timing to snapshot a tankbuster onto themselves instead of the tank.

This nonzero chance, which can only occur due to the healer player being really reckless with their MP (to the point where no sane player would think to do it), clearly justifies the tanks having a rotation instead of one button spam like us /s
Hell, they even get to have at least 3 buttons to play with in AOE, we're stuck with one (well, two if you're SGE I guess) =(