Variant & Criterion Dungeons

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Personally, I'd rather see Criterion also have the scaling factor that Variant dungeons have. Even if it meant that certain party combinations were better than others - the fact that they still pigeonhole us into Tank/Healer/DPS/DPS when the Variant version does not - just seems like they can't think outside of the box.

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I disagree. After progging a fresh run, there's value in the variety of jobs.

This whole set of dungeons is them thinking outside the box. There's finally 4 man content that's legit challenging and no one is excluded.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Personally, I'd rather see Criterion also have the scaling factor that Variant dungeons have. Even if it meant that certain party combinations were better than others - the fact that they still pigeonhole us into Tank/Healer/DPS/DPS when the Variant version does not - just seems like they can't think outside of the box.

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The trinity is literally the core of MMO's like this. If you don't like that find a different game. The worst thing swtor ever did was remove roles from their flashpoints making them boring as hell. They gave you some room in variants which is why they called it that. Leave the harder content to what makes these kind of games tick.

Guessing there criterion versions dont have one or just no1s found it yet be theres apparently a secret in the Variant dungeon.

Holy crap getting no-DPS healers is such a detriment. Never going to do a variant dungeon in a group again.

Rewards aside (I wasn't expecting anything ground-breaking tbh), I really liked the Variant Dungeon a lot. It's like they took what was good about CLL, Dalriada and Delubrum Reginae and made something interesting. The bosses are long but aren't -too- long, the mechanics have a bit of variation to them between choices and just exploration-wise it's so well-made.

Of course, there are a few things I didn't really like.
- The middle boss needs a bit more to him if that's what we're meant to grind. Otherwise he gets repetitive and tedious fast.
- It's quite obvious which skills to use between roles. Bozja and Eureka had some really good skills to use. They could honestly have explored that avenue a bit more.
- LOTS OF MOBS. The mob pulls themselves aren't too bad, what I'm referring to is how there's nothing but mobs and a couple of bosses, at least in the Variant version, with one of them being
- In the end, this too will be repetitive. I understand Square likely isn't one for "true"* randomness, but this structure still lends well to some randomization. The "randomization" we have is reliant on our choices, but it becomes rather obvious after a while which path we should take.
I'm not saying to throw away the patterns, but do add one or two random elements to keep the variety going.

*"true" randomization is almost impossible in videogames. Stuff is calculated from a seed. So it too can be predictable, though it requires exceptional know-how or just plain hacking into the game to know.

They kind of addressed my main complaint with the game, which was not understanding why dungeons should be the same thing every run. The variant dungeons do have some variations but are still quite limited in that you just pick an option and each one has static content within. I still think there should be some RNG in enemy patterns, not just the same formation of enemies waiting for you every time. Also not a big deal but it's weird behavior for them to just sit there waiting to engage me because Nanamo is still talking. The multiple difficulties of V&C is another positive, gives static groups something else to run together. Rewards still need work because it's mostly stuff you only need one time for your collection then you're done with the content.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Rewards aside (I wasn't expecting anything ground-breaking tbh), I really liked the Variant Dungeon a lot. It's like they took what was good about CLL, Dalriada and Delubrum Reginae and made something interesting. The bosses are long but aren't -too- long, the mechanics have a bit of variation to them between choices and just exploration-wise it's so well-made.

Of course, there are a few things I didn't really like.
- The middle boss needs a bit more to him if that's what we're meant to grind. Otherwise he gets repetitive and tedious fast.
- It's quite obvious which skills to use between roles. Bozja and Eureka had some really good skills to use. They could honestly have explored that avenue a bit more.
- LOTS OF MOBS. The mob pulls themselves aren't too bad, what I'm referring to is how there's nothing but mobs and a couple of bosses, at least in the Variant version, with one of them being
- In the end, this too will be repetitive. I understand Square likely isn't one for "true"* randomness, but this structure still lends well to some randomization. The "randomization" we have is reliant on our choices, but it becomes rather obvious after a while which path we should take.
I'm not saying to throw away the patterns, but do add one or two random elements to keep the variety going.

*"true" randomization is almost impossible in videogames. Stuff is calculated from a seed. So it too can be predictable, though it requires exceptional know-how or just plain hacking into the game to know.

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Too many skills make it too complicated. You really don't need much more beyond what's presented. Remember variant is supposed to be soloable and people already have enough of a kit at 90.

One of the worst parts of bozja was actually when people didn't have what was needed. Odds are more in your favor for a smooth run, especially with an all DPS group. At least one person will probabl have raise and one should have heal.

The lack of mobs is actually a refreshing change. Everything doesn't have to be wall to wall and the criterion pulls (so far) are a nice throwback for me, with roamers and small packs to deal with. It's the right kind of spicy. I feel like I could tolerate doing this via PF and progging through to the savage mode.

Overall, it feels very chill, but still retaining a level of challenge.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

I like it because I can do it alone, enjoying the small story, some new furnishings but that’s not useful for those that can’t get a house:(… I was hoping for some royal weapons but expected too much…
As for the rat boss? So adorable. I need him. I want to lay on his belly.

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No lifed it, fluffy belly is mine.

https://i.postimg.cc/0j7ZFV0P/C3-AA8...00085-B510.jpg

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Too many skills make it too complicated. You really don't need much more beyond what's presented. Remember variant is supposed to be soloable and people already have enough of a kit at 90.

One of the worst parts of bozja was actually when people didn't have what was needed. Odds are more in your favor for a smooth run, especially with an all DPS group. At least one person will probabl have raise and one should have heal.

The lack of mobs is actually a refreshing change. Everything doesn't have to be wall to wall and the criterion pulls (so far) are a nice throwback for me, with roamers and small packs to deal with. It's the right kind of spicy. I feel like I could tolerate doing this via PF and progging through to the savage mode.

Overall, it feels very chill, but still retaining a level of challenge.

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True. For the sake of keeping it simple and reduce clutter, I understand. It just feels like the options given were too "obvious"? Like, what do we give for more damage? A DoT. And not a damage boost. Not Chainspell which worked for some kits. They went for the bare essentials. But if in the end it was just sacrificing "fun and variety" for security, then I can respect that.

As for the mobs, it's just that I personally feel like it could do with one pack less x( It just feels a bit uneven with the bosses.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

No lifed it, fluffy belly is mine.

https://i.postimg.cc/0j7ZFV0P/C3-AA8...00085-B510.jpg

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lol, SAME! It was too adorable to NOT no-life it. >>;;

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Holy crap getting no-DPS healers is such a detriment. Never going to do a variant dungeon in a group again.

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And a bit curious with the grouping up for this. How quick are runs when you have all 4 people?

I did all of my runs solo, most of them as a SGE, and each run was pretty much 20 minutes on the dot (minus a few where I derped on bosses). I had tried my RPR and DNC on a couple of runs too, but honestly they didn't feel that much quicker, and I hated the healing skill. With SGE you can just Kardia yourself and then use your oGCD skills if/when you need. Was pretty easy. :X

Also, do the random groups normally just follow whichever door Nanamo chooses, or do you find they are trying to work towards specific routes? I feel like this could be really annoying to coordinate with randoms unless no one cares which version they get.