Your right really the DPS check was harsh, I doubt SE would be even intending for the DPS check to be that much (on min item level), so they changed it, Sure you could buff lots of jobs but also expecting them to buff 5-6+ jobs in two weeks is very unrealistic and the DPS check on min item level would generally be too much still.Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNovel
I don't know how it's that hard to want balance changes but also realise that every job is viable every job can clear, the value of a job such as Red Mage despite Black mage doing more right now, Red Mage is being used quite a bit more. Despite people saying machinist is "unplayable" people still bring it, but you know I can also want Mch to be buffed, I can still want casters in general to be buffed, Realising that the check was actually a big issue, but we can also look at job balance isn't too difficult.
Wondering what to do, honestly...
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09-26-2022, 05:52 AMRithy255
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09-26-2022, 06:46 AMCKNovelHonestly I believe they should've went with both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rithy255
The nerf was necessary for min ilvl purpose.
But a first set of buff should've been with 6.21.
Just very slight damage buffs for RDM and MCH.
Just to make them a bit more valuable.
Yes, it's unrealistic to ask to buffs multiple jobs in such a short notice.
The problem is that MCH has been asking for buffs since DSR and anyone would've guessed that the SAM+DNC combo would skyrocket with the crit/dh changes. -
09-26-2022, 07:31 AMRithy255Machinist should have been buffed really in 6.2 (or eariler) I think machinist was clearly one of the jobs they should have looked at.Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNovel
I think if red mage would at least be on par with summoner it would be a lot better.
I just don't think they really wanted to change too much in the two weeks, I'm sure small buffs wouldn't have messed with balance to much though, lets hope 6.25 they do fix machinist and some other jobs in general -
09-26-2022, 09:33 AMAikaalThen you can still go RDM but I'd level SMN in the pocket in case something like this tier happens. It's never bad to know all the jobs of the role you play anyways~ Summoner is extremely easy to play and you basically have the rotation at level 50 lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Travel
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09-26-2022, 10:26 AMTravelThanks for the suggestions; I'll certainly be working on SMN later on. I've also got RPR for melee, and I'm going to be grinding my original job - Bard - to serve as my physical ranged option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikaal
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09-26-2022, 11:08 AMMilkieTeaTo clarify, at level 50 you have the base rotation. Level 90 (iirc, i main SMN but CBA to check levels rn, just know it's late to the game) you get the *very last parts* to your rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travel
In essence, at level 50 it's: Summon blue lego -> spam blue lego skill -> weave energy drain/fester -> summon red/yellow/green lego -> Spam skill -> repeat.
At level 90, this changes to summon blue lego -> Spam blue lego skill -> weave energy drain/fester -> summon red/yellow/green lego -> spam skills A and B -> summon orange lego -> weave energy drain/fester -> repeat
Though generally speaking, honestly and I know you've been resistant to the thought but hear me out: RDM is absolutely 100% perfect for your needs. You *do not need* to switch jobs or level alt jobs to do things like farm for the Eden mount. TBH you don't even need a meta comp to do things at level 90, either. UNLESS your goal is to eventually join WEEK 1 PROG GROUPS you are fine. MCH, considered to be bottom rung right now in terms of balance, is STILL ABLE TO CLEAR THINGS. RDM brings utility as well as roughly the same damage as SMN, if a little more in some edge cases. -
09-26-2022, 12:14 PMTravelYeah, I talked about this with some other guys earlier in this thread; I am keeping RDM around and I am going to be using it for Savage content, including Eden, but I was also interested in joining those Week 1 prog groups; hence, if the balance is still going to be skewed in favor of melee for Week 1 clears in the future - which I really hope it isn't - then I'll be needing to get a melee job leveled for those specific instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkieTea
That, and leveling alternate jobs helps avoid burnout from playing the same job too much. -
09-26-2022, 01:14 PMMilkieTeaAll groups, for week 1 comps, will typically do 2 tanks/1 shield heal/1 pure heal/2 melee/1 phys ranged/1 caster. You'd have a place in a week 1 group regardless of if you played your preferred job or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travel
Pick a job you like and get good at it, imho. Being "okay" at a bunch of jobs is fine but being amazing at one is even better - a week 1 static will take you if you're an orange parsing RDM god but will struggle to find a reason to take you if you're grey parsing but able to swap roles, for example.
Edit:
Rank 1 group RN for P8S P2 (Current tier final boss) has a comp of: 2DRK/AST/SCH/MNK/SAM/DNC/RDM
Rank 11 comp: PLD/GNB/SGE/AST/MNK/NIN/BRD/RDM -
09-26-2022, 04:39 PMRenathrasWell, let me put it this way:Quote:
Originally Posted by Travel
RDM is always welcome at higher tiers of play (especially if you have an alt Job to swap to once your party is consistently seeing all phases and doesn't need as main Raises anymore)
I did say as my lead "Play what you like". If the Melee you're picking up is a Job you like, then that still follows my advice. But my overall point is, you don't need to pick a Melee to clear hard content. There still needs to be a caster in every group (for the 1% buff). I guess I'm a bit confused when someone says they don't care about the meta...but are making a choice that seems based on the meta.
But I guess let me just say this: You don't need to be frustrated about imbalance at higher tiers of play. Every Job other than MCH is honestly balanced at higher tiers of play when it comes to being capable of clearing content and not holding your party back. The 1% nerf to P8S is proof that that will continue to be the case. You need not "keep in mind" that thing (which you say you don't care about but...are still keeping in mind...? Which implies you care about it, though, even if by necessity rather than choice...) since it doesn't change what I said.
But you do you, my friend. I just recommend not picking up a Job you don't like just because you feel you have to (while not caring yet still feeling you have...arg, makes no sense to me..!)
Play what you like, it will always be capable of clearing content, and if somehow it isn't, the content will be nerfed because of it until it is.
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EDIT:
Oh, and someone else said it, but yeah: If you really really REALLY want Week 1 prog/clears (I'm not sure why anyone would torture themselves with that, but if you want that, I say go for it!), then ideally you want to be good at at least two, but possibly all, Jobs in your Subrole. The reason is that sometimes one Job might be sub-par, but it's rare for two or three to be. So instead of going RDM + Melee + Ranged, you'd want RDM + SMN + BLM and be good at all three.
The reason is that USUALLY, a week 1 prog group expects players to be flexible, but already has the team set. So if you have 2 tanks, 2 healers (1 pure, 1 barrier), 2 melee, 1 ranged, 1 caster, and you're in the Caster slot, if you swap over to your Melee Job, how's that work? Now your party has 3 Melee but 0 Casters and would lose that 1% damage buff. You'd have to assume one of the Melees in your Static has a Caster alt that they keep up and know how to play. Meanwhile, you've got a full set of Caster gear there...
The exception is if a Tier/Expansion allows 2 Melee and 2 Caster groups to work, in which case you could do Melee/Caster as your mains if you join a Static of 2 tanks, 2 healers, 1 melee, 1 ranged, 1 caster looking for a Melee/Caster to fill the last spot. But typically, people are running 2 Melee right now because SE is pushing it hard and it was clear in P8S that it was highly favored as the groups trying double-Caster found themselves really behind the 8 ball.
Point is:
If you really really REALLY are going for a week 1 prog Static, then instead of maining several Jobs across sub-roles, you need to omni-main at least two (ideally all three) Jobs within a given sub-role. (You can ALSO pick up a Melee or Ranged, but that would be after having leveled and geared RDM and SMN at the least)
The only exception to this is Melee specifically because they have 2 guaranteed slots and 3 armor/gear sets across them, or if you happen to join the rare Static that has most of its members being omni-role omni-mains already and so you COULD have, say, one of the melees swap to his BLM and you swap to your MNK or whatever and that actually work.
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But also as others have said, Job balance goes up and down across expansions. As Wesk Alber says in all his (fantastic, imo) 1-90 Job skills guides on YouTube: "Patches can change Job's still!"
The only Job that has consistently been the top of its role is SCH, which has been either #1 or #2 (and since there are always 2 healers, being #2 still means you have a guaranteed spot) across every expansion this game has had. It's also been #1 outright in EW, in ShB, and arguably in SB. (HW was...a weird time... <_< )
But no other role has seen one Job that was always at the top. Balance changes over time. SMN was the most powerful in ShB because it could do as much damage as BLM (hence multiple rounds of nerfs to get it to where it was just a BIT below it) while also having Raise and Devotion party buff. Now it's low overall and middle of the Caster trio, but that trio is BLM >>> SMN > RDM, so that's not saying much.
This stuff changes over time, so there's no 1 always right answer in any role.
Except SCH. SCH will apparently always be fantastic. :D -
09-26-2022, 08:06 PMFireMageAnd you're still not negating that if Jobs were properly balanced (which would involve upping the damage of multiple Jobs) the check would've been a non issue. They took the easy way outQuote:
Originally Posted by CKNovel