This video does an alright job at explaining why the Localization is so different

So, can I ask, for those of you that aren't native English speakers, why does the English translation piss you off?

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Originally Posted by Anura

The localization in this game is SHAMEFUL. I don't care what anyone says about different culture. One thing is changing a joke so people can understand, the other is completely changing whole fucking questlines. Just look at the Dark Knight localization if you're curious about it. What people ever saw in Koji Fox I'll never know. I'd sooner laugh at ice melting than those idiotic quest names and puns we got.

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Could be worse. We could have KATE.

........Wait a second....

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So, can I ask, for those of you that aren't native English speakers, why does the English translation piss you off?

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I can't speak for myself because I only speak English and so cannot understand Japanese, and so prefer the English language version by default, but reading the posts of others who dislike the English language version in the past, seems to either be beacuse there are a): often characterisation changes made to certain characters that players have become fond of, and it changes their perspective on them (the aforementioned Hauchefant incident is but one), b): some players who are bilingual/multilingual, just end up preferring a certain version for personal reasons, but then confuse subjectivity with objectivity. And c): some just like it because they're Japanese culture fantatics that just hate on everything Western/English/US, and see fit to attack/condemn the English language versions of everything as always inferior (aka 'cultural cringe').

Personally I think it's all rather petty, and before you pass judgement, I've had JP players who can understand speak/write English (members of my FC back on my old server Ridill, a JP server) talk about the storyline with me and are surprised when we mention things in the English version, that do not exist in the JP version, state the changes are actually better than what the JP version had, and that the English version is therefore the superior version.

Cultural cringe therefore clearly plays a very big part of this.

Also I'm a native English speaker so I guess that question wasn't really meant for me. I'm sorry about that.

never apologize for a well put together post :) I might disagree with you in regards to the characterizations, imo Haurchefant as a more flamboyant lovable pervert just wouldn't work in the West (English speaking Western coutnries), so I think that's them trying to have the same emotional reaction/connect to a character/situation, and I think it works.

I'm just a bit surprised when non-native English speakers care so much about the English translation. If someone told me the French translation was awful, my reaction would be "oh, okay. Sucks for them", but it wouldn't affect my enjoyment at all.


edit: (added 'English speaking countries in the West') to be most clear

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

never apologize for a well put together post :) I might disagree with you in regards to the characterizations, imo Haurchefant as a more flamboyant lovable pervert just wouldn't work in the West, so I think that's them trying to have the same emotional reaction/connect to a character/situation, and I think it works.

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Beyond wouldn't work in the west, people would actively dislike and be creeped out by him. Probably to the point where they'd cheer on his death, and wonder why the hell it was supposed to be sad. Localization is necessary at times, but you have people who refuse to accept that, and bash it for the sake of bashing it. Personally I take what we get because I can't read other languages well, and don't see the point in complaining outside of several questionable story beats which seem to be across all versions.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I'm just a bit surprised when non-native English speakers care so much about the English translation. If someone told me the French translation was awful, my reaction would be "oh, okay. Sucks for them", but it wouldn't affect my enjoyment at all.

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Most of my online discussions about this game are done in English, so it does bother me a bit when the players I'm interacting with experience a different story than I did (especially since there is a huge unwarranted biais towards the English translation as being a more canon experience than its other two counterparts).

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Haurchefant as a more flamboyant lovable pervert just wouldn't work in the West

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Maybe it's true in NA, but isn't France part of the West too? And we got Creepy Weirdo Haurchefant in his full glory (don't know about the German Translation). Casual observation tells me that the French community was more than fine with that portrayal.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Most of my online discussions about this game are done in English, so it does bother me a bit when the players I'm interacting with experience a different story that I did (especially since there is a huge unwarranted biais towards the English translation as being a more canon experience than their other two counterparts).

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^This. I tend to go through the stuff in FR as well as EN, and this is precisely the issue with it. Friends playing through the DE version and sharing translations of it have the same issue.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

The German and French teams are internal to Square Enix. We have no indication they're managed differently.

(It's not even hard to prove. Take any of the names in interviews we posted recently in this thread and you'll see LinkedIn pages which confirms they're currently Square Enix employees working directly in the Tokyo HQ. The idea that the other two translation are outsourced is based on nothing.)

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...except they ARE based on something, they're based on my own personal misconceptions, Kazhar. TLDR: I made a mistake. I was wrong.

The reason for me being wrong is because Koji Fox rarely mentions those teams, implying he's not involved in their process other than the general management of "Hey team leader, is it done? Cool, test out these bugs for me and see if they're happening in your version". Given some bugs were around, I assumed that this was an oversight commonly seen in external teams. And given how communication by Square Enix that isn't written is done in English and Japanese, it led me to think that there weren't such people in Square Enix that could provide those services.

Or at least I don't think I've ever seen any PLL being interpreted into German.

I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm speaking from what's the likely scenario based on how I understand things to work at the companies I've worked for. Good to be proven wrong. But saying "it's based on nothing" is just calling me out on bullshit. Which it isn't, it's just me assuming things based on past experiences.

But tit for tat, I'll do the same to you.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

The idea that the English script is not a translation, and in fact a second master script with equal importance to the Japanese script and inherently superior to the two other translations is most likely a misconception caused by some quotes taken wildly out of context and misunderstood, then parroted ad nauseam by the community. No official source seems to support the claim. In fact, we have many interviews which disproves it.
Basically a case of "if enough people say something it becomes the truth".

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No. As I stated, professionally speaking, there are two scripts. It's not something people collectively dreamt up, there are two scripts. The original Japanese script, and the changes that then occur on the English script that go beyond what's necessary in localization. The official source? We're seeing it happen all the time, people post differences in what we're given all the time in these forums. They're all over other threads on this topic.

You're right in that neither is superior to the other, but no, the English script does start as a translation, as you're taking the information from JP into English. But then you're adding stuff in and changing things past what translation work should be. That isn't normal in translation and localization jobs. So really, you're misconstruing things as well. When I say "this isn't translation", I mean it. Under normal circumstances, this isn't what you observe, this isn't what you do as a translator. This is a bit more involved in the writing process than just straightforward translation, and those additions should not be understood as part of the natural process of translation at all.

Edit: Basically the issue I have with what you wrote is that you jumped to the conclusion that I was talking out of my ass without giving me the chance to defend myself or acknowledge my mistake. (By "defend myself" I mean "to explain what led to me saying that", I'm otherwise still wrong, can't exactly justify being wrong). Even worse, you didn't even try to understand why I said what I said, you didn't realize why I was wrong. That isn't fair.
And to borrow the words you used, that sort of behaviour is "parroted ad nauseam by the community".

"I'm a pro trust me" isn't an argument

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

"I'm a pro trust me" isn't an argument

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It's not, but I can at least provide SOME insight.

I never said that I was right, miss. I never said I was the only authority you needed to listen to. Hell: DON'T. Do your own goddamn research, educate yourselves.

Before blaming translators again.

But when I do offer some insight into what it's like, and people choose to dismiss it, then you guys have no reason to complain about this topic. I might not be right all the time, but I at least am involved in these things to a professional level. I'm not a "pro" in the sense that I know all. I only know what I know, and that's evident.

But I at least know enough to know that some people are jumping in and saying crap that really isn't what you'd see in real life. There's a lot more to it, I'd think people would appreciate the extra knowledge rather than assume all we do is google translate our work.

I'm not an authority on the matter, I only speak about what I've experienced. If that isn't valuable enough to you, then so be it. For me, it's enough an argument to be considered. Considered, yes, but not believed in in blind faith. And I'm not asking for blind faith. I AM grateful for being corrected, what I'm not grateful is the way it was done.

When you happen to know more on a given field than other people and want to tell them "hey, this is how it's like there", I'd like to see you being smacked with "I don't care if you work with that area, your knowledge isn't any valuable at all so it's not an argument".

Edit: Maybe my issue was speaking with such confidence, I'll keep that in mind. But make no mistake, you guys speak out of your arse way harder, and when people call you out, you get incredibly defensive despite being wrong.