Doesnt feel like the WoW migration improved the community.

OP you are pretty delusional if you believe WoW refugees brought this "negativity" here. It started when for no gameplay reason Yoshi's team started to break the class foundations. Now it's been slowly progressing more and more along with the other unsolved issues. At some point they lose the goodwill they earned, it started already but will and can they stop it?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It has only degraded over time. I don't really attribute that to the WoW migration, really. At least not as significantly as some want to insinuate.

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No, it's very routine for the player base to dissipate over time, typically with each patch you may see a brief spike. Usually peak player count reaches at the end of the expansions and the start of a new expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I'm talking with respect to player type, mentality, and attitude, not the player count.

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I would attribute that to a number of things. One would be the changes in EW. Compared to other expansions for the most part most classes got a QoL update, but no real changes that we would see like in previous expansions. There are some exceptions to this which would be Monk, which was now it's completed version from the ShB changes it received in a later part of the expansion, and SMN which was reworked. Opinions about those changes aside, it doesn't feel the game had any sort of meaningful change from ShB. When you compare jumps from ARR to HW, HW to SB, or SB to ShB there were large amount of changes both to individual job play styles, and the game systems as a whole. ShB to EW came with a stat squish, and normalized 2 min timers for buffs. Nothing felt as if it has progressed forward, or backwards rather it feels stagnant. So if you did not like the state of the game in ShB, than unfortunately you are not going to like the state of the game now and be a little more annoyed as you have 2 more years of it. Same with if you liked the state of the game in ShB you are ecstatic for the comfortable feeling with some QoL spice.

I think also with the WoW exodus came a bit of hope for meaningful changes to the game with such a large boom, but nothing really changed due to this either. Now the boom happened so late in ShB it is unrealistic to expect drastic changes to an expansion that was set to release 6 months after this boom had happened. Although I have a feeling PvP rework and Criterion dungeons may be a result of this boom, but there is no real way to say for certain unless the devs flat out say it.

Edited: cause I ran out of posts and wanted to respond.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

No, it's very routine for the player base to dissipate over time, typically with each patch you may see a brief spike. Usually peak player count reaches at the end of the expansions and the start of a new expansion.

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I'm talking with respect to player type, mentality, and attitude, not the player count.

Maybe OP saw one of my threads and thought that.

Which I have to then remind you that I've played FF14 since Heavensward, and I've played WoW for maybe only a few hours, got bored, and quit.

People are deluded if they think the dissatisfaction is coming from WoW refugees.

Let me be very clear here:

The dissatisfaction is coming from FF14 veterans.

Those WoW refugees? They're either hyper casuals or they've already quit.

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Originally Posted by Ashpd

There's something you don't understand, let me translate it into your language for your brain.
When your class consists of 1-2 buttons that you press 90% of the time, it's boring and bad, even on the part of casual players, because it's BORING. Period.
P.S. TitanMan, come back. Better yours troll post, than Yoshi white knight's who don't understand why community upset about deleting job's personality.

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I don't troll anymore.

There's nothing to troll about anyways, I'm out of ideas.

I could maybe resurrect Venandi and make more Karen threads but that's boring.

Still have a seething hate for WoW players I see.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

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Of course, that's my point, really. I don't necessarily attribute this attitude or viewpoint to WoW refugees, at least in the same degree as eluded to by the OP. Those that have streamed, and those that I've watched are content with the amount of content they have and can do (perks of being a new player; relatively speaking). I don't really dispute these, and in fact, view some of the compounding issues as a much bigger contributor for XIV veterans, or long-term players than what I do it being correlated to "WoW refugees coming over and spreading their discontent".

It's interesting that you bring these up though, and whilst I am inclined to agree, the jumps across these expansions have ultimately been a learning curve for the development team themselves, alongside actually developing many of the 'pillars' today that people use - So I feel they will have the greatest deal of adjustments. That being said, I will say they do need to take more risks in this regard; they need to find more of a balance between difficult and accessible. In Stormblood they had the perfect balance in this regard, but they've deviated towards the accessible route far too much, perhaps (At the very least I have found this to be the case with many of the crafting abilities being neutered - If I'm to recall they wanted this change to be so people could learn for themselves)

But then we come to this issue that the dev team feels as though it is their onus to encourage people to learn - Arguably actually forcing people to learn via oversimplification, or at the very least marginalizing that skill gap between those that want to learn and those that do not. -- When in reality it is up to the individual, and regardless of how hard you may try people will do as they have always done. I make this argument because generally speaking, with a team, or a group of people there is generally an overarching philosophy they follow when developing systems, and I would say it is clear at the least they prefer delving into being too accessible. -- I get that this mentality has perks, but in the same vein, it doesn't really address the underlying issue with people not caring.

The way I view this in terms of combat is... Since I've done both Thordan and Endsinger (Extreme), Thordan wasn't overly difficult (By this I mean you could still feasibly clear it in a reasonable timeframe), but it had that nice little balance in that towards the end it threw a bulk of the mechanics at you in a vomit form I guess (That dance was exciting), but Endsinger I felt... They would just throw 1 mechanic, and then another mechanic at you in a fairly spacious manner (I will admit even as a casual player in terms of PvE raids, I felt there were many chances I would just tune out and disconnect my mind from the fight, which isn't good at all given my experience being far-between and sporadic across expansions, I'd have expected Endsinger to really be more thrilling)

Nice bait! Let's hope we get Asmon Glam Contests too!

Maybe a flying city? :3

Were already so close to being wow, why not fully commit? :3

Oh look, you're back.

You weren't missed.

What WoW players?

I'm fairly sure a large number of them went back. We're deluding ourselves if we think the massive surge in subs we had at launch is still a thing. What happened to the long 6.1 queues everyone predicted?