Reset time with xpansion. Lets deal with the cheating finally.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Rader.io didn't help either.

The community basically is fighting against itself.

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Didn't help, no. But it is more of a symptom of the bigger issues.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

Maybe we are beyond that point of no return.... I still want them to give us a way to more effectively deal with the non-rmt cheaters though. An easier-to-use report function and a faster follow-through need to be the minimum.

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Just having a right click Report Player opening the appropriate Support Desk window would be a big help, especially if it auto-filled the character name/world/location. Players would still have to fill in the details but at least they wouldn't be trying to negotiate a complicated menu first.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

I used to do Ultimate for a while, just to try something new, and it was downtime..
I was unpleasantly surprised though as to how many people in my static were using Cactbot.
And looking up PoV's (pigs or vampires?) also many of those had Cactbot running.
Felt like cheating to me.

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Careful, you're going to start a pages long discussion where a bunch of disingenuous people pretend they can't understand how Cactbot is cheating.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

None of those things destroyed the game. Absolutely none of them. Addons aren't really some huge advantage either since they are readily available and easy to install. What destroyed WoW was arrogance and hubris on behalf of the company and its developers. Sadly, they continue barreling towards destruction even now. It seems like you haven't played WoW much over the years, if at all. That's the only way you could have come to this conclusion.

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If you have tried Eden S12, you are lying to yourself by claiming these addons don't offer you advantage.
They do, gradually lowering the difficulty of entire fight

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

If you have tried Eden S12, you are lying to yourself by claiming these addons don't offer you advantage.
They do, gradually lowering the difficulty of entire fight

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If you looked at the context, I was talking about WoW. Which, again, is because they are readily available and simple to install, so most players have them anyway. As a result there's no real advantage over one's fellow player since most people use them by default. It comes down to accessibility, really. And in WoW they are extremely accessible.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

It went so far that some fights now rely on you having the addon, and you cannot tell something is happening without the addon. This is a piss poor design and I support the complete ban of all these things.

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And this is why im for absolute 0 tollerance on that kind of stuff... once it turns to "lol just use the mod/addon/bot" its too far...

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Because sniffers and spying software ARE bad and have no place on people's computers.

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Well then dont cheat on online games, easy.

Unfortunately for you then, they don't ever intend to install that kind of crap on anyone's computer. Stuff like spyware and DRM have such an awful reputation and for good reason.. at it's worst it negatively impacts your PC's performance. So I'm glad they elect to not put that crap on their software.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

I agree, but pretending to be a saint in hell gets you nothing good.
Most people use Chrome as their browser for example, Chrome by default scans your processes and activity and sends it to Google. By default this scanning software is also running in the background when you are NOT using the browser.
If you don't believe me go to settings, open advanced settings, system and the first line will surprise you. :)

People who have this active on their PC also complain about game protection. At least game protection does something good for you in exchange.

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I always felt that Chrome is a steaming pile but I didn't know it did this. No I don't use Chrome. I use Firefox too. Not quite to the extent he does, but yes script blockers/etc in there. I don't want to get infected from anywhere and I don't want "personalized ads" from places like Amazon to show up on other pages. I consider Discord to be a steaming pile as well. Yes when I have to use it I do but it often messes with my sound settings if left running so I force it shut completely when I quit using it. If you just try to shut it down it doesn't, it keeps running in the background. I don't want anything that does that.

I am not sure that is a really good defense. We are all watched on our computers whether we want it or not anymore. It is just a way to try to argue against what is clearly against the TOS and never say never. If being spied upon you really mattered you would not even post here with all its cookie trackers and a myriad of optics. If people actually want to try to do something against the cheaters then they will get the point. Spyware against injections is not the only feather in the hat anyhow. pattern tools can easily be used to decipher patterns and a few well-placed tests to see how a possible bot reacts from a dm would also do well. Some bots have auto-responses that text them when they are being messaged so the most advanced paranoid cheaters might escape but the response against cheaters is so tepid at best most people don't even care to hide the tracks.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

I am not sure that is a really good defense. We are all watched on our computers whether we want it or not anymore. It is just a way to try to argue against what is clearly against the TOS and never say never. If being spied upon you really mattered you would not even post here with all its cookie trackers and a myriad of optics. If people actually want to try to do something against the cheaters then they will get the point. Spyware against injections is not the only feather in the hat anyhow. pattern tools can easily be used to decipher patterns and a few well-placed tests to see how a possible bot reacts from a dm would also do well. Some bots have auto-responses that text them when they are being messaged so the most advanced paranoid cheaters might escape but the response against cheaters is so tepid at best most people don't even care to hide the tracks.

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The chief difference is that when opening a website, only the information you reveal and input there is processed. EU law forbids processing of user-specific data for anything that isn't cause-bound, specific and as minimal as possible unless the user explicitly consents. As FF XIV is accessible within the EU, they are obligated to abide by those standards. The data they process is limited and bound specifically to what is neccessary to use the website and the services it provides. Same for the game, the game sends data to the server to be able to operate. The website doesn't magically scan everything else you have running on your computer, and is in fact incapable of doing so. So comparing website cookies with spyware is *extremely* flawed.

That being said, you are absolutely right about the second half, this doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing kind of deal where a no to spyware means a no to further anti-bot measures, which was mostly what this topic was originally about before people brought in the callout 3rd party tools and such. If they can cook up some smart ways to deal with bots in particular that don't require spyware and can run server-side only, with some smart intergration of Moderators to verify activity flagged as suspicious, then that would be great. I can't imagine that they aren't already doing that anyway, but if they can refine and improve the process, everyone can only stand to win from it.