The WoL reawakened in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I dont think that we will truly become Azem again. For that to happen we would need to rejoin with quite a few soul parts again which means that x people have to die and rejoin with us. For me it would be much more powerful if we stay ourself and take care of the Final days. One big theme of the last expansion was to learn from the past but to also move forward, so that others may walk that path. Using some of Azems power, learning about their past (or maybe just Venats) but still staying throught to the reincarnation we are now just feels the most fitting of it all.

I am also not a fan of the "WoL will die and/or be forgotten" ending. Honestly we dont need such a hardcore ending to power down a bit. Just let us spent all of our crystals and maybe the new sun one too in a final act to stop the last boss. There we lost a bit of our power. After the end of the world is done, we would be free to go our seperate ways and start a new adventure in a foreign country again.

I just dont get how the game could even go on if we somehow died / got forgotten...it was always the point of the game to connect different plot points over different expansions together. How could we find a truly good ending to the Dalmasca arc if Fran and the others dont know who we are? Or any of the other questlines we surely will start with 6.0.

What about being part of a great company? Owning a house? For all of it to make sense SE would have to take all of that away from us...after all you cant be a high rank in a city state if the state does not remember that you exist...I get the feeling that people want to have such a bold ending but still eat their cake too by keeping everything else.

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I kinda wanna keep our sun crystal. If we spend the elemental crystals, that is fine with me, but I want us to hold onto the Azem crystal. I also want to see that past life explored more, while at the same time we remain who we are.

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Originally Posted by SuperRobinDX

I feel that Ryu honestly has a point albeit it isn't quite perfect.

I agree it would be disappointing to see characters credit someone else with your deeds and actions but they don't necessarily need to rub your nose in it to remove the character from their affiliation with the WoL moniker.

What i'd like to see is a Season 2 where the WoL embarks on a brand new journey and of their previous support nets. Like, if we are voyaging to Meracydia or the New World it could explain why the WoL doesn't have the scions or the Eorzean Alliance backing them up. It wouldn't be insulting to the player because we'd be strangers in a strange land and if their past deeds ever came up it could even be fun to give the player the opportunity to be coy about it.

I just think a soft reset will inevitably be necessary if only because there will just be so much baggage and "power creep".

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How is that any particularly different from the past three expansions though?

In Heavensward, all the Scions except for Alphinaud and Tataru are either MIA or have their hands tied. In Stormblood, once you enter Kugane you're on your own outside of the few allies who came with you (Lyse, Alphinaud, Alisae, and Tataru). You could make the argument you have the backing of the Crystarium in Shadowbringers, but really they don't actually accompany you on any adventures outside of Lakeland so it really just you and the Scions (and not even all of them until halfway through the expac).

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

I do mind, as would most of the player base. I hope SE never does what you want. Side note: The "chosen one" archetype, done correctly, is one of my favorites.

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And I, like Theodric, wouldn't mind. It all comes down to execution in the end. Different strokes for different folks. Not everyone has a need for ego-stroking.

Figures like "most" etc. come down to assumption and can easily turn depending on how something is executed. They're not eternal platonic concepts.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

And I, like Theodric, wouldn't mind. It all comes down to execution in the end. Different strokes for different folks. Not everyone has a need for ego-stroking.

Figures like "most" etc. come down to assumption and can easily turn depending on how something is executed. They're not eternal platonic concepts.

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It isn't even "ego stroking". More. .. if a person is responsible for particular deeds, they should be credited with those deeds, whether for good or for ill. The WoL has done a lot of good for the world, they deserve the accolades for such. What they don't deserve is to have people forget that they did them.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

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I would take this a bit further, and point out a few things.

WOL from the Source.

13th World (The Void) The failed Rejoining

1st Calamity Wind - Green Aether - 5th
2nd Calamity Lightning - Purple Aether - 12th
3rd Calamity Fire - Red Aether - 2nd
4th Calamity Allagan's Earthquake - Yellow Aether - 3rd
5th Calamity Ice- White Aether - 6th
6th Calamity water (the Flood) - Blue Aether - 10th
7th Calamity Dalamud - Reddish Purple Aether - 7th

WOL gains Ardbert from the 1st -

8 times rejoined. (Note: the dialog by Emet-Selch saying 8 times rejoined, yet he acted like he was unaware of Ardbert seems suspect. As the Source was only rejoined 7 time, only the WOL had 8 rejoinings and one of those was suppose to be in secret.)

1st interesting bit, the Dark Knight story quest, was this an outside soul, or a piece of you, or like Ardbert a rejoining but it retained it's independent will. I lean to it being a Rejoined part of your soul.



Here's why... Soul Stones they are a soul that has been converted into memories that are accessible and allow the learning of past knowledge. Generally the Souls collected are not sentient or even Humanoid, they are just wisps of aether from life that has passed. ie the Fairy from Scholar. But the Darkknight Soulstone had a human will and consciousness, and played the part of someone else until it was revealed it was basically a part of you the whole time, and the first part of the story you were doing some "Fight Club" Tyler Durden level crazy. The final arc the "Shard" used the soul stone to materialize. But in truth, it was always just you, or the angry recently rejoined part of you say from the 7th. Just like Ardbert was independent, and yet connected back to you at the end. You can still tap into his personality and memories.

8 times rejoined, met two of them in Stories. I Suspect Reaper will involve rejoining with our Voidsent part from the 13th.

9 times Rejoined in Endwalker.

But lets go back to Job Stones, and how they are made, sure most of them are just artificial souls gathered to record learned abilities, 18 Job Stones + 2Crafting Jobs, only one of them had a sentience connected... or maybe not...

The Calamities -

Wind & Earth (White Mage)
Lightning, Fire, & Ice (Blackmage)
Water (Scholar)
Reddish Purple (Dark Knight)
Void (Reaper)

Maybe one of the reasons we are who we are is that some of the WOL's past lives was actually in the Job Stones.... Think of it like this, Data gets lost when transferred, it's why old JPGs look bad. Sure like everyone else on the Source we gained back 7 rejoinings, and our souls are 7 times stronger than people on the First, (And other remaining worlds) but for some reason ours is just a bit stronger and brighter still. Our Job stones hold the essence and knowledge of past lives, and maybe of past selves. We have gathered up just a bit more than others on the Source, and because of this the lost data is not as degraded as it is with others.

Basically although Azem (the Sun) is our full complete past life, and we became 14 different souls, and regained the major parts of our souls, and even some of our memories from the past lives (in the way of abilities and some actual memories), we (the WOL) are a new person, and we have actually gained new parts to our soul from our Job Stones, so even if we rejoined with the remaining 5 souls, and all the memories of Azem, we would still have more soul aether and knowledge than our original life, and we would still be what we as players created, and not Azem. We are not just the sum of our parts, but we are the will and life we live. We are the choices we have made collectively, and we will take the good and bad of each of our rejoined selves.

I just want to say that I think it's hilarious how there's been this whole multi-page argument about this notion that the world's memory of the WoL's deeds will be erased after Endwalker, based on quite literally zero grounding in the game or developer talk around it; there is no situation this could or would happen. I think we're just all aware that WoW going for a similar status quo by a different direction A: happened, and B: sucked, and it's just one big 'what if' discussion afterwards.

And I feel like neither side thinks WoW did it well, either. The sides are 'no, that sucks there and would suck here' and 'okay so it sucks there, but maybe it wouldn't suck here'.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

It isn't even "ego stroking". More. .. if a person is responsible for particular deeds, they should be credited with those deeds, whether for good or for ill. The WoL has done a lot of good for the world, they deserve the accolades for such. What they don't deserve is to have people forget that they did them.

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Considering how they've delved into the mental stress of being the WoL with the DRK storyline...would the WoL even want that added stress? With how badly the WoL has taken betrayal, people taking advantage of them, those they've lost and have been unable to save, and just overall been there just to raise morale, do they really want to be known as the WoL anymore?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Considering how they've delved into the mental stress of being the WoL with the DRK storyline...would the WoL even want that added stress? With how badly the WoL has taken betrayal, people taking advantage of them, those they've lost and have been unable to save, and just overall been there just to raise morale, do they really want to be known as the WoL anymore?

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Even if it was all forgotten, they would still have the stress. So yes, mine would want the credit for his actions too.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Considering how they've delved into the mental stress of being the WoL with the DRK storyline...would the WoL even want that added stress? With how badly the WoL has taken betrayal, people taking advantage of them, those they've lost and have been unable to save, and just overall been there just to raise morale, do they really want to be known as the WoL anymore?

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Would the WoL really be fine with losing all the connections to the people they have bonded with? I dont really think so, especially when we got Azems crystal whose spell is to summon people. For someone that seems to care a lot about helping people and befriending so many of them, I doubt they would be fine with just being forgotten by all of them. Also wasnt a part of the Dark knight quest that the WoL was annoyed that people were so ungrateful? They dont need to be praised to the sun and back but people forgetting all of our deeds? I am quite sure that Fray would have a field day with that.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Then here's my question for all 3 of you. How are we going to live up to that moniker after we're depowered and the threat is over at the conclusion of Endwalker? It's not going to be possible to, and we all know it's very likely we're going to get depowered of the Blessing and our powers of Azem.

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A lot of people overstate how powerful the Warrior of Light is. We're certainly powerful, but like... Estinien and Raubahn can stand up to us, Zenos is likely more powerful given we've never beat him in an one on one fight yet, and all the Scions are able to keep up with us. If we were AD&D characters, we'd be like 11th level. Vastly more powerful than the average person, but average person is 0th level.