It's time to hire dedicated Tank an Healer devs!

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

The entire game design has to change to get proper healing and tanking jobs here, it's never gonna happen ^^ Might aswell be asking for fps machinist gameplay or sekiro samurai, it's just silly ^_^

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I think the stat squish was probably the best shot they had at retuning things so that healers have a wider envelope to require more healing without just making DPS drop dead the moment casual Timmy blinks.

But yeah, unfortunately you are spot on. The likelihood of that actually happening is slim at best. Bleeeeeh =/

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

As for tanking, you're deluding yourself. It's the easiest role in the game right now. I see this argument a lot from tanks who want to believe they're playing a role that requires a lot skill.

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No role requires a lot of skill, but that doesn't mean they are as good at it as they could be. A DPS could not press some of their cooldowns or do positionals, a tank could not use all of their utility and position the boss poorly and a healer could spam cure. There are a lot of times people clear while playing their roles this way.

Each fight tests different roles a different amount too. Some fights are tank fights and boring for the DPS and some fights are boring for the tanks but a lot for the healers or the DPS.

There are definitely fights where healer is the easiest role because of it being one button compared to what tanks are doing.

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Pointing the boss the right way, pressing a cooldown for tankbusters 3 times in an 8 minute fight, pressing provoke and remembering Reprisal exists are not rocket science when all you're doing is 1-2-3 in the meantime.

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Tank rotations might not be as complicated as DPS, but they are not quite 1-2-3 and have other parts to their rotation like goring blade, atonement, requiescat, continuation, storm's eye, inner release/delirium, MP management and abilities to use off cooldown, which can clash with using mitigation sometimes.

I don't think it's necessary to make tanks tunnel while dragging the boss to a specific square pattern because they are doing some extremely complicated and distracting rotation. I don't think it would make a party happy to be wiping because the tank's rotation is so complicated that they wipe the party because of it.

They dont need to make Healers DPS complicated, just more interesting than spamming 1. AND they dont have to make it a huge DPS increase either.
example:
Stone/Glare has a 35% chance to proc a... (picking a name here) "Water Jet". Water Jet normally does 10 potency less than stone/glare (but has 0.5s less cast time?) but under a proc, does 10 more potency than glare/stone.

This would roughly let healers press another DPS button every 6~ seconds, and for those who dont want to be focused on DPS, this barely effects their total DPS.

in short, all healers should have another GCD they press every 6-10 seconds. and that REALLY is all you need to avoid boredom. (while also making the DPS gains minimal.)

also, regarding tanks, DRK just lacks anything interesting, that u could consider a "fun toy". PLDs cover, and full on invincible can be considered fun. (along with clemency for small man/solo content) i used to enjoy inner release, but WAR at least has a "time your DPS for healing bursts" which isnt so much a toy, but is a mechanic that can be fun. (WAR is 2nd to last in this regard)
GNB has its own invincible, and its near death experience also adds a reason to link it with its own regen/shield. (depending on the scenario. but this also puts it under PLD, as its just a reskinned PLD skill with less focus on "fun") A lot fo fun toys have been removed from the tanks over the years, so pretty much only PLD retained most of its own.

Most DRKs said TBN, but thats just thrill of battle. some said its shorter recast time, but thats not really a "fun toy" so much as u press it 1-2 more times than ToB.
Some say the pet is DRKs fun toy, but imo, theres nothing to do with it, and u cant use it when u want really. its just a DoT.
The only thing DRK has going for it, is its Aethetics. including the "DoT" i mentioned. its just a flashy DoT. (And imo Reaper has even better aesthetics/animations by a butt load)

TBN is a fun toy because it can be used for a lot of situations that other things can't. It can prevent knockbacks by absorbing 100% of the damage, it can save the last remaining healer or RDM that is on 10% health or has lots of vulnerability stacks as an aoe is being cast, it can save you when you are at 5% health, it can save your co-tank who accumulated lots of vulnerability stacks, it can absorb entire tank busters and prevent Doom in DR especially when combined with Shadow Wall. It allowed me to solo Therion (from the last 5.0 dungeon) multiple times on DRK.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

TBN is a fun toy because it can be used for a lot of situations that other things can't. It can prevent knockbacks by absorbing 100% of the damage, it can save the last remaining healer or RDM that is on 10% health or has lots of vulnerability stacks as an aoe is being cast, it can save you when you are at 5% health, it can save your co-tank who accumulated lots of vulnerability stacks, it can absorb entire tank busters and prevent Doom in DR especially when combined with Shadow Wall. It allowed me to solo Therion (from the last 5.0 dungeon) multiple times on DRK.

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Aye it's fun when TBN has it's uses, I used it a lot to cheese raid mechanics like Titan in E4S during Titan-go-rounds in the end I'd Rampart + TBN into LD to eat both the TB and the double stack. You can get creative with TBN but at the end of the day it rarely sees use outside of hard content, which is a shame I've used it many times to save people, myself, co tank etc, but DRK feels really bad when you outgear alot of content for your TBN to just not break and then that feels really bad.

The issue with TBN though has been in it's inception where if it didn't break back in SB it was a huge detriment to you, in SHB it's still a detriment if it doesn't break which sucks as I hate defensives being tacked on to your offense attacks no other tank gets punished for using their signature ability as much as DRK and it seems in EW it's not gonna change. Didn't wanna turn this into a doom and gloom thread because I actually do like ShB DRK or I wouldn't still be playing it but once EW comes out I'll likely switch to WAR because it got so many huge QoLs and buffs (3 Onslaughts, 2 secs on Holmgang, Equilibrium being god tier, Bloodwhetting, Primal Rend, Shake it off buff).

they need to hire a staff for both roles or maybe actually give a proper thought about the jobs and roles cause we exist in the game.

you expect that going into EW your job would actually advance, i mean they said so in their LL that the jobs will go forward from 5.0 design and above( whether we like it or not, that is what was said and promise).

HOWEVER, look at the capstone skills healers get and tell me they actually cared about that role, tell me they actually thought about the healers in development, tell me they actually put the time and effort in developing those skills cause really and i mean it, those skills are the most embarrassing, none thought, not even been developed skills, that are suppose to be the new thrilling skills that will exist for healers going into EW.

when you look at those stuff, i don't think anymore they need to hire a new healer developer, i think they wont hire one cause they simply don't care.

Where has it been said that they don't have enough people to work on them? There are obviously lots of developers and plenty of job openings for this game on their website all the time.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Where has it been said that they don't have enough people to work on them? There are obviously lots of developers and plenty of job openings for this game on their website all the time.

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there is a difference between shortage of people and just not willing to put the effort as seen from EW skills "being developed" for the roles.

those skills that were developed for EW for the healers screams either they did not have time to work on healers or they simply did not put any effort to design EW healers

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Aion's Claric healer was a fricken monster wearing chainmail armor with twelve or more deeps skills! Where is this healers only heal nonsense even coming from? I do not understand.. I have always done damage on healers in every game I play them in even Overwatch.

There is something most satisfying about Lucio booping someone to their demise or unleashing five Zenyatta orbs directly into the cranium of one unsuspecting soul.

Healers are within the "support" tier or considered this in most places even within table top. Support doth not mean "healbot" it means "support" which can be accomplished in many many ways. To give example, if the thing is dead no healing is required and thus you have supported the party.

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What I find even funnier is that this is also a game that never focused on only-healing... And if you see any log for any savage fight you'll also see that the healing is minimal. If you play as a healer, you're aware of this. Heck, if I go with SCH and just leave the fairy there are plenty of dungeons that I almost don't touch healing, and the same with WHM. And I am a casual player, mind you.

To be honest, I don't even remember other games in which healers only heal. Most are either at least a SUPPORT class with a kit built around it. A part of the community and even the devs loves throwing the "healers are made for healing!"... uh yes, the sky is blue. Doesn't really change that healers have plenty of downtime with nothing to do. I don't want to hit like a black mage, I want to have something to do.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Healers not having many DPS abilities is intentional because some healers like to just heal and SE wants to support their freedom to focus on healing. They don't want to pressure them into doing damage when that isn't the role they chose.

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And that's absolutely fine for casual healers. Veteran healers realize that healing is not intensive in this game and you'll easily spend 60% or more (a lot more) of your GCDs casting damage if you are playing halfway decently.

Because every role should be doing SOMETHING beneficial every single GCD they can. For healers, when there's nothing to heal, that means they're either:

1) Mitigating damage
2) Doing damage.

All we are asking for is that damage to be meaningful and fun. Not 2 damage buttons from lvl 4 to lvl 90 like it is currently.

And the solutions aren't entirely complicated. Easy solutions would be:

Scholar: Give back the Quickened Aetherflow trait. This ENCOURAGED them to use their aetherflow stacks.

White Mage: Change the FreeCure trait from Cure1 (it's a trap currently) to their GCD filler spell Stone / Glare.

AST: Give a Slow to Gravity or have Malefic lower the CD of ED by a second or two per cast.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Correction:
Many of the players that choose to weigh in on the forums hate the current set up.
"Most players" are silent on the issue and we cannot speak for them.

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There was a quote somewhere and I'm paraphrasing from memory:

A complaint is an extremely important thing. People who are upset and don't care just walk away angry. If someone is willing to give constructive criticism, it shows they still care about the product.

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

https://youtu.be/8uFvDXs-rLk?t=228
how's that "fool me twice" saying goes again?

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Leveling dungeons have ALWAYS hit harder than the previous expansion's endgame dungeons.

Dusk Vigil, The Vault, Siresong Sea, Bardam's Mettle, Castrum Abania, Holmister Switch all hit like trucks.