How is monk after the rework?

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

As for something else Perfect Balance could be: Blitzes. I said this during the 90 page Monk Needs a Rework thread, but Perfect Balance could be used to tie the Form Based combos into the Blitz System. You activate Perfect Balance and will be able to do a short string of Weaponskills in an order that would correspond to a given sequence of Opo Opo, Coeurl, and Raptor skills. The correct sequence would allow you to use some sort of finishing move like Suplex, Dolphin Blow, Rising Phoenix, or Phantom Rush. Unlike Dances or Ninjutsus, you'd still execute the skills during your Blitz period rather than just doing some other animation.

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Bootshine isn't satisfying mainly because of the animation, which is what I aimed to remedy. Missing it is punishing but I think that's fine with true north and ROE stacks. When you say you are spamming Bootshine that means consecutive bootshines, when it reality you are alternating between that and DK. You might think that's not much better but it's still not spamming. The comparisons to Inner Release become even flimsier when you consider that you actually spam Fell Cleave consecutively for that with little weaving, whereas on monk you are alternating between two moves with positional requirements on a faster GCD and with a lot more weaving. I do think that people sometimes forget about the positionals and faster GCD when talking about MNK being too simple of a rotation compared to other jobs.

I do agree that Tornado Kick shouldn't be an OCGD and should instead be a weaponskill you build up to. And your idea about SSS is also cool, although 15 positionals in a row is a little much. I think you can still have bootshine alongside your other ideas for those who enjoy leaden bootshines.

I would like to see Blitz implemented someday, it sounds pretty similar to Ninjutsu but you are correct in saying that it would tie into MNK's existing forms and whatnot. If that was implemented I would want to use it more than during PB somehow though.

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I do think that people sometimes forget about the positionals and faster GCD when talking about MNK being too simple of a rotation compared to other jobs.

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Being fast and having positionals is the only thing MNK has, though. That alone can't make a rotation complex, it's how you're supposed to manage both of those things on top of existing job mechanics, which MNK currently does not have. At least not any that actually impact the rotation in a meaningful or interesting way.

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

It's literally not though, and it's not close to being like Inner Release.

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It is literally prep Leaden Fist, spend Leaden Fist, prep Leaden Fist, spend Leaden Fist, prep Leaden Fist...

What is that if not Leaden Fist spam?

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

As for something else Perfect Balance could be: Blitzes. I said this during the 90 page Monk Needs a Rework thread, but Perfect Balance could be used to tie the Form Based combos into the Blitz System. You activate Perfect Balance and will be able to do a short string of Weaponskills in an order that would correspond to a given sequence of Opo Opo, Coeurl, and Raptor skills. The correct sequence would allow you to use some sort of finishing move like Suplex, Dolphin Blow, Rising Phoenix, or Phantom Rush. Unlike Dances or Ninjutsus, you'd still execute the skills during your Blitz period rather than just doing some other animation.

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With the old being hacked to pieces, this at least seems a worthy successor as something new but related.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Being fast and having positionals is the only thing MNK has, though. That alone can't make a rotation complex, it's how you're supposed to manage both of those things on top of existing job mechanics, which MNK currently does not have. At least not any that actually impact the rotation in a meaningful or interesting way.

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I wasn't talking about the whole rotation here, just why PB isn't just literally spamming one move... *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I wasn't talking about the whole rotation here, just why PB isn't just literally spamming one move... *sigh*

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Of course you're not spamming one move. You're spamming two skills. Completely different.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Of course you're not spamming one move. You're spamming two skills. Completely different.

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Once again, with busy OGCDs, monk's skillspeed, and positionals. Sorry if you think that it's such a brain-dead burst devoid of challenge, I guess I am just trash to think that it's not always easy to hit all the positionals and and off-globals during the beginning of a fight when the boss is won't to do it's best beyblade impression.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It is literally prep Leaden Fist, spend Leaden Fist, prep Leaden Fist, spend Leaden Fist, prep Leaden Fist...

What is that if not Leaden Fist spam?

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I like how you said "prep leaden fist" instead of "dragon kick on a different positional" because it would mean you could say leaden fist more frequently and make it sound more spammy. Call me a trash player if you want, but alternating positionals for 6 GCDs straight with busy OCGDs in the mix can be mechanically challenging for some multiple encounters in this game.

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I like how you said "prep leaden fist" instead of "dragon kick on a different positional" because it would mean you could say leaden fist more frequently and make it sound more spammy. Call me a trash player if you want, but alternating positionals for 6 GCDs straight with busy OCGDs in the mix can be mechanically challenging for some multiple encounters in this game.

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You have 4 charges of positional-nullifying skills and, on the average not-spinning boss, need move less than a foot to go from flank to rear to flank again.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You have 4 charges of positional-nullifying skills and, on the average not-spinning boss, need move less than a foot to go from flank to rear to flank again.

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Yeah Monk would be unplayable without those positional-ignoring charges. We are getting farther and farther away from my original point. And I’d like to see a venn diagram of people saying that PB is easy spam and people who think that the bootshine positional is too punishing to miss. Like you have true north and ROE right? (Which I keep in easy to reach spots for a reason)

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

Yeah Monk would be unplayable without those positional-ignoring charges. We are getting farther and farther away from my original point. And I’d like to see a venn diagram of people saying that PB is easy spam and people who think that the bootshine positional is too punishing to miss. Like you have true north and ROE right? (Which I keep in easy to reach spots for a reason)

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Why would you expect there not to be an overlap? Having a tarp with which to cover a problem doesn't make the problem not exist.

You generate enough positional-nullification duration to cover every GCD of Perfect Balance every time. It is therefore easy to utilize optimally.

That still doesn't mean that Leaden Fist, by being a problem only through factors outside the player's control and over so narrow a span that it cannot meaningfully be compensated for except via a please-remove-my-core-gameplay button, doesn't significantly reduce player agency or add a seemingly arbitrary or chance-based factor to their performance far beyond what other jobs face.

Perfect Balance is easy to optimize. Leaden Fist is problematic. The two are not mutually exclusive.