Conclusion: We really like FATES, but lie to ourselves.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

I think the hate for fates steams from in early ARR fates was the best way to level up so you kinda HAD to do them over and over and over.

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Yep. And then they never stopped throwing them at us, starting with the brutal atma grind before they nerfed it. I just want them to stop.

We don't like FATEs, but it's the most common type of content they give to us, and most often the way for relics as well. It's not written consent, but a forced one if you would like to get rewards.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

I think one of the problems with FATEs are part of what makes it a good design solution. They wanted to take many components you'd like in an open world game, like elusive enemies (that aren't hunts), spontaneous collection quests, defence missions, world events, etc., and package them all under one label. One flaw with this system is there is a huge, broad, massive range of disparate activities in how it works, the consequences to the world, the rewards available, etc.

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This is good game design. Dynamism is what makes a great open world, you need a lot of it, that changes OVER TIME, some rng to it, with a system that recycles itself. If you can finish all the open world activities in 2 weeks and get all the rewards you designed a bad open world system. If it takes you 6 months to a year, you designed a great system. If you designed it as a "decaying" system you reached "god mode."

Decaying system = adding glamours that take 100 FATES to get but which "break" after constant use and you need to get it again. Replace glamour with mount, weapon, minion. Even easier when you can make it an existing minion, weapon, mount, or glamour with with a glow to them or a different version. It recycles itself because it makes you come back to the open world to get it again.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Decaying system = adding glamours that take 100 FATES to get but which "break" after constant use and you need to get it again. Replace glamour with mount, weapon, minion. Even easier when you can make it an existing minion, weapon, mount, or glamour with with a glow to them or a different version. It recycles itself because it makes you come back to the open world to get it again.

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I just died a little inside. . Hyperbole aside ;), you're free to like that but I really really dislike that. To the point if it became a core part of the game, weapons, armors, mounts, glamours, breaking after certain amount of use- I'm pretty sure I'd sincerely think about leaving. One off mega primal you can summon or even mount on the open world that expires if you use or don't use after a certain amount of time, sure that might be neat- but definitely not the standard concept please god no (such a concept being used extremely rarely and for very specific and logical circumstances). I hate things breaking in general to be honest, especially if they also take a grind to get back (so like skyrim picklocks never really bothered me, easy to get). I wouldn't even put durability in that grouping since it's cheap, easy, and it wont vanish if it breaks.

Mine, mine, all of it, forever, it's mine. *cuddles all the useless items in my retainer(s) "I wont let the bad man Amnamaat touch you!"* XD.

It would also feel even worse in a game that has a cash shop. Either you don't make those items break because you pay for them, which makes them more valuable and pushes people to them more which feels like sketchy marketing, or they do break and they're clearly grubbing for your money with consumable glamour. Super cheap Korean MMO vibes. Just get some of that breaks your equipment on chance to upgrade (which they removed from 1.0 materia system, due to feedback- and I thank them for that). Bleerrrrgggggggggg. (I'm sure there are other mmos that have the rent gear / break gear systems but only MMOs I've seen them with consistently and so front and center are on korean ones, which immediately turned me off from looking into those sort of markets again).

More open world stuff is fine (could be really cool), but keep your decay away from my toys! lol. Again fine for you to have this bias- forum to voice feedback, but by god I've a strong bias the other direction on that concept. Like games with decaying skills or reputation, .. eww. :p

I did FATEs for atma.

I hate fates. I hate that gemstone vendors are locked behind them. I hate that Zodiac relics are locked behind them. I hate the fact that Eureka revolves around them. Fates are the reason why I will never have any Yokai mounts and I generally avoid them on the world map when I see them. They are boring, grindy busy work that could be better spent running other content. Meh.

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This is good game design. Dynamism is what makes a great open world, you need a lot of it, that changes OVER TIME, some rng to it, with a system that recycles itself. If you can finish all the open world activities in 2 weeks and get all the rewards you designed a bad open world system. If it takes you 6 months to a year, you designed a great system. If you designed it as a "decaying" system you reached "god mode."

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Calm down there, Skinner, youve been dead 30 years, game design ideas based on your nonsense are just taking a little longer to catch up.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yep. And then they never stopped throwing them at us, starting with the brutal atma grind before they nerfed it. I just want them to stop.

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Personally I feel like camping fate spawn locations for hours (I waited 4 hours for one of them, forgot the name, but it was in east shroud) for the Animus books was actually worse.
Granted I didn't do Atmas day one, it was early 2.3 when I got to that step so a nerf might have been acitve then, but atlast I was free to move around the map without any worrys of missing a specific one.

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Originally Posted by Kamome-chan

Fates are nice when you have a train but when you're solo and the gauge barely fill it's annoying

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I agree.. they should scale based on the amount of players that hit the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Kamome-chan

Fates are nice when you have a train but when you're solo and the gauge barely fill it's annoying

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What you experienced is like more of an effect of FATEs scaling based on the number of participants the previous spawn had. At minimum scaling, most non-achievement FATEs can be completed solo in about 5 min by an at level character in proper gear.