Please add Savage Roulette Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

People would try it because for the first time in this games history it isn't horribly inconvenient to attempt. Some would fail and quit, sure, but they wouldn't have even attempted otherwise.

I know plenty of people who would enjoy the challenge but simply can't stomach the process of waiting for a party finder group or situating their lives around the schedule of a raiding guild. The end result of a Savage roulette would be more people who are familiar with Savage content and can run it, because there was actually a convenient way to learn it.

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I mean, is that really the only issue? Just look at some of the comments on the first page or anywhere else in these forums (the thread of what people will never do in-game). Reality is that as soon as the community expects you to do your homework and reach a certain level of play (which is what savage is about), they view that as "toxic behavior" and don't get anywhere near it. This will be no different.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I do wish we had actually difficult four player content outside of PotD/HoH.

They could realiscally make an "extreme" difficulty for existing dungeons by giving trash mobs higher damage and actual mechanics to discourage wall to wall pulls and toughening existing mechanics on the bosses by having things like spread/stack/proximity AoEs going off at the same time to complicate movement/positioning past "Don't stand in the bad stuff".

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You'd get a similar effect if you capped ilevel sync of the current dungeons to a lower point. Much of what makes the dungeons easy currently is the fact that our ilevels regularly exceed the expected and reward ilevels of the dungeons.

Going into Anamnesis Andyer at i470 means that big pulls are possible if risky and i490+ means big pulls only fail after someone messes up. Cap Anamnesis at i455 and you would see mechanics being taken a lot more serious.

Tbh, just make a min ILvl roulette and that would make pretty much everything hard just enough.
Take for example when Yoshi and team did min ILvl ARR Alliance on stream.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

Tbh, just make a min ILvl roulette and that would make pretty much everything hard just enough.
Take for example when Yoshi and team did min ILvl ARR Alliance on stream.

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The ilvl cap on most dungeons is already low enough that you can't skip mechanics to a meaningful degree on any of the bosses, so it honestly would just make fights take longer, which isn't really "difficult" per say.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The ilvl cap on most dungeons is already low enough that you can't skip mechanics to a meaningful degree on any of the bosses, so it honestly would just make fights take longer, which isn't really "difficult" per say.

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Min ilvl is also a lie. It doesn't actually sync us down to that exact ilvl as we're still far more powerful than we ever were at the time. Some of that may be ability changes throughout the years but even then, it's very noticeable with Ultimate. Nowadays, you can skip phases that wasn't remotely possible in Stormblood despite the i345 and i375 lock.

I think an easy-ish solution is a minimum iLVL roulette, similar to what we can already choose when setting up our own party. Perhaps just have it exist as an alternative or in addition to the normal leveling roulette, but maybe slightly better rewards. Nothing gamebreaking. That way most people still do the normal roulette. People with extra time or gumption..? Go for it!

Maybe even adjust the minimum ilvl to be slightly lower than it is.
..maybe even have a rotation of dungeons so every day/week 4-5 at random instead of all dungeons all the time.

I know many are not a fan of it, but I wish FFXIV would add mythic style dungeons with a leader board based around difficultly and time cleared that offer comparable gear to savage raids at the highest levels of difficultly, and are able to clear it under a certain amount a time. Would be something that people seeking harder four man content could do, and also something those who wish to optimize dungeons runs and clear as quickly as possible could have some fun with. Would also give statics something to strive for between savage and ultimate since their would be an active leader board hopefully.

I would love to see harder 4 person content and I think dungeons would be ideal for this. However, I'd hate to see it in a roulette.

People mostly run roulettes for tomes or levelling and the majority want them quick and easy. If this was a roulette I think there would be a real danger of people yelling for nerfs and probably an increase in toxic behaviour, too (just look at Castrum and Prae).

I would like to see something like WoW's Mythic Dungeons or even Challenge modes (though please give us a more interesting challenge than simply completing the content fast).

Want savage? Go do level 50 hard dungeons with a group of sprouts. Haha!

On a serious note, all dungeons and raids are heavily scripted so once you got the routine down, it’s no longer hard content. I haven’t done savage raids, my internet tends to waffle between bad and good so I refrain from messing up some group’s day because of it, but from all the how-to videos I’ve watched you get a routine down, rotate in some direction after a mechanic is done or go to your assigned spots to bait attacks. A savage dungeon would just end up being this after awhile.

Take Grand Cosmos, first boss drops these player-based AoEs before the first brooms head out so I usually bait my AoE away from the group and away the two brooms since most players head towards the two brooms because they are easier to dodge when they move. The second boss does a TB, then a roomwide, then does a player-based AoE combined with the checkered-board floor AoE, and then another roomwide where the safe spot is under the boss. Then 3rd boss is basically don’t destroy all the furniture for those two casts of Mortal Flame. The first time players did the dungeon I noticed a lot of deaths but as the routine gets etched into your mind, it becomes second nature. The only time there are deaths is if someone is new and doesn’t know the mechanics. And the only fun to have in these dungeons is hope the tank pulls wall-to-wall so I have an excuse to use my full kit as a healer.

What would a Savage dungeon entail? Mobs with more HP so they become damage sponges? More boss mechanics to juggle? Mobs that have a mechanic to them that needs to be stunned?

My best suggestion is having mechanics be worth something. Like say as you go through the dungeon you’re slowly getting damage or defense buffs as you defeat mobs that you need to fight the final boss with. And if you get killed? Well, those buffs reset so now it’s harder to fight that final boss. Puts more emphasis on players being aware of their surroundings and not eating telegraphed AoEs. Or, make it even harder with having nothing being telegraphed ahead of time. Have players observe how mobs move and learn to dodge if mobs look like they are readying an attack. Like with the Stone Vigil Hard final boss or the Rathalos fight. Maybe have a mechanic where a player gets captured and the team has to work together to get them released. If they don’t get released on time then they die and can’t be rezzed or maybe they end up in their own instance where they have to survive a wave of mobs to get released. Maybe incorporate the Rathalos mechanic where players have to heal themselves with potions or herbs they find in the dungeon because healer’s healing is disabled because of some arcane magic. Just hopefully a Savage dungeon doesn’t just become a long hallway where you fight HP bloated mobs.

I wouldn't call them savage, but harder difficulty dungeons might be cool. Probably wouldn't be on a roulette though if they are even EX difficulty.