The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Setting your own terms of your competition only highlights how little you actually want it.

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Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Truss it up however you like.

Less competition is less competition.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

I’m personally getting kind of fed up with this same response. For starters, I like competition, it makes the marketboard more interesting and fun, and I know plenty of other vet crafters that enjoy competition. Here’s the problem though. We enjoy competition that knows what they are doing and knows how to play the market well, people that work hard at cranking out gear, not spamming a googled rotation macro with gear that cost less than 100k Gil. That’s like competing against a player that you hope eventually gets more skilled, but doesn’t.

That is why making too many things accessible, easy, and borderline mindless is an issue for us. (At least for me, anyway) I like competition, and I like a good fight. I can’t get that with hoards of new players spamming macros, using the same techniques, same strategies...day in and day out. It’s boring. FFXIV’s crafting endgame is boring.

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If it helps when I play the mb I dont sell crafted high end gear, I prefer to make use of crafted high end gear rather then sell it. But as they say to each their own you know.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

But a lot of other veteran crafters hate this and it's mostly because they now have significantly more competition in the markets, and I suspect that's where a lot of these complaints ultimately stem from.

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You lost me there.

This same response comes up over and over and over. We do not have more competition on the markets. A veteran crafter knows how to make profit, they have years of experience researching markets. I made many hundreds of millions abusing Reuse, for example, when casual crafters were spamming Facet and Dwarven gear for peanuts. I made no secret of the method either. We'll play the markets just fine.

Like I've said many times here, it's hurting the casual crafter most. Your profits are pathetic now and you can never raise them higher by just crafting. Casual crafters just had to have a slice of that pie that we used to work for, but you can't divide one pie among the entire playerbase. You'll never taste those big 1-2 million+ profits now. Ever. The veterans will, just in other ways besides crafting. We're being pushed away from something we liked so that casual players can make less gil than in the past.

There's also the ingame implications of making gear second only to Savage raid, rain from the sky. Why farm tomes, why run dungeons, why run Eden, why run Nier, why beat EX? Even if you don't craft, just do a few hours maps and bam, full raid gear. Even lv71-79 DoH/DoL gear, it's virtually worthless and might as well be deleted from the recipe list.

I agree with some of what OP says, but the post is all over the place.

Pick a main beef and craft a thread out that. For example the Taxes, which are anti-lore and unfair. Why even assign retainers to cities anymore, when it doesnt even matter which retainer you buy from. A petty change. SE clearly panicking over something, but it should be the bots. New and returning people are increasing player numbers, and the taxes are just a petty way to capitalize on people trying to make an [RP] living.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

You'll never taste those big 1-2 million+ profits now.

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Hooboy. So much to unpack here.

First: You totally still get those big profits, your window is just smaller.

Second: Crafted gear is only better if you pentameld. This adds an additional cost that some would rather not deal with. +10 Ilvls is a significant boost in main stats and a fully pentamelded crafted set is about equal, and in some cases better or worse based on the substats in question. For weapons, damage is king. i485 beats out i480 without contest. 100 extra sub stats doesn't even come close.

And 'leveling gear' for crafters and gatherers were pointless as early as Heavensward because of Leves. You might make a stop at x5-x7 if you needed to, but if you were rocking the previous expansions top-end, you ignored everything else.

There's been many in-game updates that did effect the economy and or interest in crafting:

- Server visitation.
- QoL changes to acquiring tedious items (tokens like scrips, beast tribe currencies, tomes).
- QoL changes to update crafting (the revamp pt1 and now pt 2).
- A bigger focus on enticing new crafters with rewards and xp (Beast Tribes, Ishgarde Restoration).
- Extract Materia.
- Coming soon:tm: Crafter Relics

There's been many out-of-game tools and communities that did effect the economy and or interest in crafting:

- Caimie's and others' great guides.
- Rath's famous rotation and the other puzzle solvers out there like Liam_Harper.
- Garlandtools, Teamcraft, ffxiv-beta.lokyst.net etc who create online resurces.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Hooboy. So much to unpack here.

First: You totally still get those big profits, your window is just smaller.

Second: Crafted gear is only better if you pentameld. This adds an additional cost that some would rather not deal with. +10 Ilvls is a significant boost in main stats and a fully pentamelded crafted set is about equal, and in some cases better or worse based on the substats in question. For weapons, damage is king. i485 beats out i480 without contest. 100 extra sub stats doesn't even come close.

And 'leveling gear' for crafters and gatherers were pointless as early as Heavensward because of Leves. You might make a stop at x5-x7 if you needed to, but if you were rocking the previous expansions top-end, you ignored everything else.

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1: Cant vet crafters get a single thing they actually want out of the game? And no, expert recipes aren’t it. It’s just a meaningless mini game with no rewards we care for. (read my post on caimies thread)

2: Cant we get at least one thing we want without players like you constantly trying to argue and shoot them down back to where they were? not everything needs to be shared, some things should require hard work and effort.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

1: Cant vet crafters get a single thing they actually want out of the game? And no, expert recipes aren’t it. It’s just a meaningless mini game with no rewards we care for. (read my post on caimies thread)

2: Cant we get at least one thing we want without players like you constantly trying to argue and shoot them down back to where they were? not everything needs to be shared, some things should require hard work and effort.

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I read your post.

It's amazing how it still comes back to gil, despite saying it's not about gil, and chastising someone for saying it's about gil.

It's this sort of double speak that prompts me to set the record straight when it pops up.

Like that "crafting was hard", when in reality it was just time consuming. Like saying crafted gear being plentiful jeopardizes the other gear rewarding content that isn't savage.

Like saying it isn't about gil or competition, but then immediately request content with less competition that rewards high amounts of gil.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

• Vet and hardcore crafters, as you know, like rewards to show off their hard work and skill. What most of us really enjoyed, though don’t admit, is the reward of selling such difficult crafts on the marketboard, and have them sell at high prices. Because those high prices show that these players have done something very special, and as such, should be able to charge for such a desirable item. In other words, high amounts of Gil should be some sort of reward.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

I’m personally getting kind of fed up with this same response. For starters, I like competition, it makes the marketboard more interesting and fun, and I know plenty of other vet crafters that enjoy competition. Here’s the problem though. We enjoy competition that knows what they are doing and knows how to play the market well, people that work hard at cranking out gear, not spamming a googled rotation macro with gear that cost less than 100k Gil. That’s like competing against a player that you hope eventually gets more skilled, but doesn’t.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Hooboy. So much to unpack here.

First: You totally still get those big profits, your window is just smaller.

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The window is barely a week. That's pathetic compared to the past.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Second: Crafted gear is only better if you pentameld. This adds an additional cost that some would rather not deal with.

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Seriously? I'm getting tired of spelling out how to get hundreds of free materia easily. I've posted it multiple times, there is no cost to endgame crafting. None, just a tiny bit of effort.

It's fairly obvious from your posts that you really hate FF14 crafting. That's fine, it's not everyone's cup of tea. But coming to a crafting thread and arguing over something you hate with people who enjoy crafting and just want to leave feedback makes no sense.