Maybe RDM need....

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

You do you. Don't drop lines like "If you wanna do damage go play BLM" and not expect responses like mine.

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I wasn't expecting anything lol

What if Red Mage had some debuff spells? It has melee, it offensive magic, healing magic, and (a) buff ability.

Maybe like, Verdia reduces damage dealt by the enemy or Verbio reduces their defense? They could be DoTs like the original or maybe just do direct damage with lower potency than the standard rotation spells?

Could be a nice way to break things up between the standard proc rotation. Maybe they could even proc their respective magics at a lower rate, or generate mana?

I like the theme of Red Mage being able to do ‘a bit of everything’, so maybe adding to what they ‘can do’ could make it feel more valuable? I’d be sad to see them remove things like Vercure and Verraise, because I don’t think their presence really justify its DPS being so low in the first place

It doesn't have to do the same damage as a black mage. It just needs to do respectable levels of damage. It doesn't need healing utilities because we already have two healers that are beyond good at their jobs. If three healers were ever needed, three would be taken because Red Mage can likewise never heal as well as a real healer.

You're right, btw, people are already dismissing RDM in parties. It's damage is bottom of the barrel, and devs have admitted it's because of verraise. Verraise which is better than raise in usefulness, so that already runs contrary to Red Mage's identity of never outclassing either White or Black Mage. But nobody talks about that. Red Mage already has more white than black magic (aero, stone, holy, cure and raise vs fire, thunder, flare). But that's not gonna get brought up either I bet.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Red mage is never going to do damage like Black mage. Never. And yes, if you want to do more damage as a caster, go play black mage becuase that's what you want to do right? Red mage is a red mage, a mixture of black and white, yes it is a DPS job but in it's core, it's identity; it's a hybrid. Look up what red mage is.

From what I'm reading from these forms lately, red mage is not even considered being played on high content and only practice parties so what am I missing?

People are asking to get rid of red mages utilities and don't know what the job identity is. If red mage does the same level of damage a Black mage does, people would be asking for a Balance and a Nerf to red mage. Whether you like it or not there will never be no perfect balance and Red mage is never going to be a massive damage dealer like black mage

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I agree that RDM should not be better than BLM at DPS but I do believe that they should supplement the bigger jobs with enhancements like a dancer does. Perhaps spells like temper(ATK+)/focus (ACC+) and even spells that mix Minor healing and DPS to keep to their roots of healing and damage but without being worthless utility since healers usually have healing covered.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

I agree that RDM should not be better than BLM at DPS but I do believe that they should supplement the bigger jobs with enhancements like a dancer does. Perhaps spells like temper(ATK+)/focus (ACC+) and even spells that mix Minor healing and DPS to keep to their roots of healing and damage but without being worthless utility since healers usually have healing covered.

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That could work, but they took out Focus (ACC+) because people was complaining about accuracy ( healers especially) so they removed it to make everything easier....like everything else in this game..

If they added (ATK+) people would call for Nerf and use red mages for attack bonus and people would be crying about Dancer buffs.

You can't win in this game

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Red mage is never going to do damage like Black mage. Never. And yes, if you want to do more damage as a caster, go play black mage becuase that's what you want to do right? Red mage is a red mage, a mixture of black and white, yes it is a DPS job but in it's core, it's identity; it's a hybrid. Look up what red mage is.

From what I'm reading from these forms lately, red mage is not even considered being played on high content and only practice parties so what am I missing?

People are asking to get rid of red mages utilities and don't know what the job identity is. If red mage does the same level of damage a Black mage does, people would be asking for a Balance and a Nerf to red mage. Whether you like it or not there will never be no perfect balance and Red mage is never going to be a massive damage dealer like black mage

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Nice strawman. Once again nobody is saying RDM damage needs to be on par with BLM. What we're saying is that there is too much of an imbalance and saying "HURRR RED MAGE IDENTITY" is not going to cut it as a justification for keeping it bad.

I know the job's identity. I'm a life-long RDM fan. I preordered stormblood despite not planning on playing it right away just for the RDM minion. And I want to continue playing RDM as my main in high end content. That shouldn't mean I have to be a detriment to my party or, god forbid, be excluded from parties entirely. Nor does it mean I should have to deal with people telling me to "just play black mage bro".

At the end of the day this is an MMO. RDM is a DPS and that means it needs to be balanced to compete effectively with other DPS especially casters. That is the bottom line.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Nice strawman. Once again nobody is saying RDM damage needs to be on par with BLM. What we're saying is that there is too much of an imbalance and saying "HURRR RED MAGE IDENTITY" is not going to cut it as a justification for keeping it bad.

I know the job's identity. I'm a life-long RDM fan. I preordered stormblood despite not planning on playing it right away just for the RDM minion. And I want to continue playing RDM as my main in high end content. That shouldn't mean I have to be a detriment to my party or, god forbid, be excluded from parties entirely. Nor does it mean I should have to deal with people telling me to "just play black mage bro".

At the end of the day this is an MMO. RDM is a DPS and that means it needs to be balanced to compete effectively with other DPS especially casters. That is the bottom line.

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FFXI was also an MMO and red mage is still aceppted by parties and I'm not saying to not play red mage, I never did say that so you can stop putting words in my mouth.
But people are saying that they want to get rid of red mages utility, in favor of more damage. But red mage is, or never was about just doing pure DPS. You want to rack up those numbers, go be a black mage then

FFXIV will never reach pure balance and there is going to be favorite of other jobs. Just play the job you like. If people are not accepting you because you play red mage, maybe you need to find other groups.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Nice strawman. Once again nobody is saying RDM damage needs to be on par with BLM. What we're saying is that there is too much of an imbalance and saying "HURRR RED MAGE IDENTITY" is not going to cut it as a justification for keeping it bad.

I know the job's identity. I'm a life-long RDM fan.

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Red mage seems find to me, it doesn't seem bad to me, if you enjoy the job, keep playing it or go black mage

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]At the end of the day this is an MMO. RDM is a DPS and that means it needs to be balanced to compete effectively with other DPS especially casters. That is the bottom line.

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FFXI is an MMO as well and all jobs can do all content

Seems kind of disingenuous to insinuate that XIV and XI are the same kind of MMO. If Red Mage seems fine to you, cool. But it doesn't to me, and as a paying customer, I'm going to voice my opinion.

As is, Red Mage needs nerfed actually, its raise is stronger than White Mage's and that breaks the fantasy. Nerf verraise. It also needs more black magic spells to balance against it's white magic: as stated earlier, we're 5 white mage spells (aero, stone, holy, cure, raise) to 3 black mage spells (thunder, fire, flare).

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

FFXI was also an MMO and red mage is still aceppted by parties and I'm not saying to not play red mage, I never did say that so you can stop putting words in my mouth.
But people are saying that they want to get rid of red mages utility, in favor of more damage. But red mage is, or never was about just doing pure DPS. You want to rack up those numbers, go be a black mage then

FFXIV will never reach pure balance and there is going to be favorite of other jobs. Just play the job you like. If people are not accepting you because you play red mage, maybe you need to find other groups.

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Keep in mind when we talk about DPS balance we tall about RDPS which is more than just the amount of damage you put up on your own. RDM does not need to put up the same amount of personal DPS for it to contribute a comparable amount of rDPS, nor should it. What lots of people don't seem to understand is that rDPS is supposed to be damn near perfectly balanced because it represents the total amount of overall damage contribution by the class minus padding. If selfish jobs are blowing support jobs away so badly that their personal DPS alone makes their rDPS vastly vastly superior (keep in mind rDPS specifically excludes padding so in terms of actual performance the gap is even higher than rDPS suggests) then the gap is way way too high and balance is completely screwed. BLM's personal DPS alone should not put it 1500+ DPS above RDM in rDPS. Period.