DRK do you wish you get Stalwart Soul at LV45 like the rest of the tanks?

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Lacking mana to use flood in the second pull and beyond does not give it away?

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I already accounted for mp gain. If you blow your load on the 1st pack that means it dies much faster. And the 2nd pack dies slower. On war for example, you also blow your load (zerk) on the 1st one and 2nd dies slower. On drk you have the choice to spread your damage out or burst on demand. The overall damage between the both is nearly the same (according to my previous math).

You are just repeating "but mp regen slow" when my damage estimates already accounted for that mp. You have the choice of when you spend it. Other tanks use CDs like zerk to buff damage significantly for a short time then have dead zones. Drk can blow their mp to burst a short time then have a dead zone. Its the same thing. Or you can spread put your mp over multiple pulls for more consistent output. Its the same amount of damage, you just choose when to turn the nozzle up to full for a burst or let it trickle out over time.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I already accounted for mp gain. If you blow your load on the 1st pack that means it dies much faster. And the 2nd pack dies slower. On war for example, you also blow your load (zerk) on the 1st one and 2nd dies slower. On drk you have the choice to spread your damage out or burst on demand. The overall damage between the both is nearly the same (according to my previous math).

You are just repeating "but mp regen slow" when my damage estimates already accounted for that mp. You have the choice of when you spend it. Other tanks use CDs like zerk to buff damage significantly for a short time then have dead zones. Drk can blow their mp to burst a short time then have a dead zone. Its the same thing. Or you can spread put your mp over multiple pulls for more consistent output. Its the same amount of damage, you just choose when to turn the nozzle up to full for a burst or let it trickle out over time.

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On second pull War's Overpower+Mythril Tempest+Steel Cyclone is the same with Unleashx2 that doesn't generate anything?

This is only from you compared it to WAR. But not PLD and GNB. At best it only make both DRK&WAR equal in term of the slow clearing mob with aoe but not all tanks.

Overpower and tempest dpnt generate anything either. They are just damage gcds until the trait kicks at 74 while drk gets its resource gcd generater at 72. There is no steel cyclone to spam because you only get gauge from aoe at 72. We only get 1 cyclone gauge from infuriate(lv 50) so thats ONE cyclone a minute. Which is exactly how many quietus drk gets (50 blood a minute from blood weapon). Its literally identical.

Again, i just did the war comparison because people kept making claims that drk has bad aoe dps at low levels withiut any evidence. I provided evidence thats not true based on war. If you want to continue to say that drk is gimped, then show it. Im not going to do even more math and time to make your own argument for you. You made the claim drk is actually bad at aoe damage. Burden if proof is on you.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Overpower and tempest dpnt generate anything either. They are just damage gcds until the trait kicks at 74 while drk gets its resource gcd generater at 72. There is no steel cyclone to spam because you only get gauge from aoe at 72. We only get 1 cyclone gauge from infuriate(lv 50) so thats ONE cyclone a minute. Which is exactly how many quietus drk gets (50 blood a minute from blood weapon). Its literally identical.

Again, i just did the war comparison because people kept making claims that drk has bad aoe dps at low levels withiut any evidence. I provided evidence thats not true based on war. If you want to continue to say that drk is gimped, then show it. Im not going to do even more math and time to make your own argument for you. You made the claim drk is actually bad at aoe damage. Burden if proof is on you.

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You've already provided all the math we need. According to your math, DRK and WAR have comparable to DPS when under optimal conditions. However, due to Flood's MP cost and the expectation for all tanks to chain pull, there will be pulls where you don't get to use it /at all/. There will also be pulls where you manage only one Flood of Darkness. Only your first pull is guaranteed to have several Floods. The others will have 1-2 at the most even if factoring in Blood Weapon. Bear in mind that these assertions are made assuming an average party with average skill level, meaning trash packs basically disintegrate anyway. The longer a kill takes to occur, the more DRK and WAR fall into a state of parity with one another. WAR wins out on short trash pulls if DRK is MP starved, DRK wins if it isn't. To reiterate: Both even out if a fight doesn't end very quickly.

So with that said, what /is/ your problem with people disliking the state of DRK at low level? Taking issue with lowbie DRK is not an attack on warriors.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Overpower and tempest dpnt generate anything either. They are just damage gcds until the trait kicks at 74 while drk gets its resource gcd generater at 72. There is no steel cyclone to spam because you only get gauge from aoe at 72. We only get 1 cyclone gauge from infuriate(lv 50) so thats ONE cyclone a minute. Which is exactly how many quietus drk gets (50 blood a minute from blood weapon). Its literally identical.

Again, i just did the war comparison because people kept making claims that drk has bad aoe dps at low levels withiut any evidence. I provided evidence thats not true based on war. If you want to continue to say that drk is gimped, then show it. Im not going to do even more math and time to make your own argument for you. You made the claim drk is actually bad at aoe damage. Burden if proof is on you.

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Darkside, increasing damage dealt by 10%
Storm's Eye Increases damage dealt by 10%

Unleash X 2 = 300
Overpower+Mythril Tempest = 330

See difference?

Now let go further

Heavy Swing+Maim+Storm's Path+Heavy Swing+Maim+Storm's Eye = 50 Beast Gauge = 1 steel cyclon/Decimate.

Heavy Swing+Maim+Storm's PathX2 = 60 Beast Gauge

Hard Slash+Syphon Strike+Souleater+Hard Slash+Syphon Strike+Souleater+Natural Mp regen = 2200 MP Not Enough to spend on Flood 3000 MP

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Darkside, increasing damage dealt by 10%
Storm's Eye Increases damage dealt by 10%

Unleash X 2 = 300
Overpower+Mythril Tempest = 330

See difference?

Now let go further

Heavy Swing+Maim+Storm's Path+Heavy Swing+Maim+Storm's Eye = 50 Beast Gauge = 1 steel cyclon/Decimate.

Heavy Swing+Maim+Storm's PathX2 = 60 Beast Gauge

Hard Slash+Syphon Strike+Souleater+Hard Slash+Syphon Strike+Souleater+Natural Mp regen = 2200 MP Not Enough to spend on Flood 3000 MP

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I literally accounted for both darkside buff and eye buff in my earlier math.

You are talking about single target rotations to get gauge in a thread about big pulls in dungeons and wanting stalwart soul earlier. If ANY tank is using single target to get resources in an aoe oack you are playing horribly wrong. Using eye is already a detrument to warrior because you are wasting 3 gvds to single target to get eye up while the drk did 150x3 to all targets with darkside up immediately as its ogcd. The only tank that should consider using st combos in aoe is warrior for eye and even thay is situational as the tradeoff of aoe damage is sometimes not worth it.

Just reread my math post. Everything you keep bringing up was already addressed there.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I literally accounted for both darkside buff and eye buff in my earlier math.

You are talking about single target rotations to get gauge in a thread about big pulls in dungeons and wanting stalwart soul earlier. If ANY tank is using single target to get resources in an aoe oack you are playing horribly wrong. Using eye is already a detrument to warrior because you are wasting 3 gvds to single target to get eye up while the drk did 150x3 to all targets with darkside up immediately as its ogcd. The only tank that should consider using st combos in aoe is warrior for eye and even thay is situational as the tradeoff of aoe damage is sometimes not worth it.

Just reread my math post. Everything you keep bringing up was already addressed there.

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More like you never play DRK. How else you're gonna regen MP? I ask you MR.WAR

You continue to bring up math and say it was indentical but purposely leave Enhanced Infuriate out.

You think Using eye is already a detrument to warrior but you have no idea that if DRK don't don't use Syphon at all they won't get enough mp to use Flood/Edge either.

There's nothing to stop war from using eye on the last 1-2 mob that survive in your aoe if you didn't already used it.
Same can be said about DRK who get to use single target combo when there's a surrive mob.

Stop limit yourself to the math and theory and go do the real experiment.

*And for the last time this is just DRK&WAR but not including PLD and GNB so it change nothing that DRK and maybe WAR have the lowest aoe damage.*

Oh and I didn't say big pull. Just a pull and second pull so don't invent it and say it was my word.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

More like you never play DRK. How else you're gonna regen MP? I ask you MR.WAR

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70 Drk and War thank you.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

You continue to bring up math and say it was indentical but purposely leave Enhanced Infuriate out

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That trait is lv 66. Most of this discussion has focused on low level and all of it has focused on 69 and down. For 3 levels of this range war has enhanced infuriate. But when you are AOE-ing trash pulls you are not generating ANY gauge to spend and reduce the recast time. So you are getting any use out of enhanced infuriate. It really kicks in at 70 with IR giving free gauge actions and moreso in the mid 70s when war gets resources from its AOE.....just like drk.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

You think Using eye is already a detrument to warrior but you have no idea that if DRK don't don't use Syphon at all they won't get enough mp to use Flood/Edge either.

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Using a single target combo is TERRIBLE dps loss when you are fighting a pack of mobs. So yes. Being forced to either: Loose 3gcds of aoe damage on a big pack of mobs OR loose 10% damage buff are both detriments. That means they are bad things you would rather not have to do, but both your options are bad. Compared to say....Drk who GAINS damage from using an AOE OGCD action which ALSO increases future damage by 10%. That would be a win win while war putting up eye (sacrificing aoe for 3 gcds) or forgoing it for the pull are both loose loose.

You get enough MP to use flood doing NOTHING at all passively every 45 seconds. 200 mp per tic. A tick is 3 seconds. You get 1 free flood a minute from blood weapon which means, just using blood weapon and passive regen nets you 7500 mp per minute (and you still have 600 from CS). Maintaining darkside costs 6000 mp/minute. You have no excuse to be unable to maintain darkside except playing really, really, badly.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

There's nothing to stop war from using eye on the last 1-2 mob that survive in your aoe if you didn't already used it.
Same can be said about DRK who get to use single target combo when there's a surrive mob.

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Correct. But remember how even WITH eye, war breaks even with Drk? So youre telling me that a properly played warrior can maintain eye just like i said 1 sentence up that a properly played drk can maintain darkside. And just as war can use the last 1-2 mobs to refresh eye, so can drk use a combo on last 1-2 mobs to gain some extra MP to maintain their 10% buff and blood to prep for the next pull. So, its like ive been saying all along, they are roughly equal for dungeon spam unless someone misplays either job badly, which is on them.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Stop limit yourself to the math and theory and go do the real experiment.

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Again. Drk 70. I play it. This isnt all some armchair BS. I have played war as my main and drk as my 2nd job through stormblood and toyed with it a bit back in HW. Raided with drks routinely, etc. I'm quite familiar with drk in all of its iterations.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Oh and I didn't say big pull. Just a pull and second pull so don't invent it and say it was my word.

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This thread has been talking about big dungeon pulls for the entire time. The entire point of this thread is discussion Drks AOE actions. If you want to talk about a bunch of single target combos and how they compare, feel free to start a new topic. This one has been firmly rooted in discussing AOE for pages now.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

This thread has been talking about big dungeon pulls for the entire time. The entire point of this thread is discussion Drks AOE actions. If you want to talk about a bunch of single target combos and how they compare, feel free to start a new topic. This one has been firmly rooted in discussing AOE for pages now.

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NO I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT BIG PULL Give me a QUOTE about me saying big pull. I talk about first pull and beyond not the big pull. Irony how you accuse other people for put the words in your mouth but you kept trying to do that to me.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

70 Drk and War thank you.


That trait is lv 66. Most of this discussion has focused on low level and all of it has focused on 69 and down. For 3 levels of this range war has enhanced infuriate. But when you are AOE-ing trash pulls you are not generating ANY gauge to spend and reduce the recast time. So you are getting any use out of enhanced infuriate. It really kicks in at 70 with IR giving free gauge actions and moreso in the mid 70s when war gets resources from its AOE.....just like drk.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

What I want to say : DRK is the slowest among the tanks to clear the pull below lv72 when there's more than 1 pull to clear. So I think it might be better to get Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness at lower level and ask DRK if they feel the same.

It have nothing to do with boringness.

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Unfortunate for you I was talking about DRK below 72 all this time. You just didn't notice and yes that mean LV70 and Inner Release count!