People wanting a support class. Why?

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Originally Posted by gman1311

But I want to know, what do you actually want from a support class?

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There are some jobs that would currently benefit from being in such a role and the hope is that those roles, in addition to any new jobs that would enter the role, at least for me, would be able to provide their intended or projected effects without having to worry about balancing them to fit specifically within the confines of the DPS, Healer, and Tank roles.

Don't need a support role
I just want more emphasis on support on jobs like Nin,Rdm and bard

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Originally Posted by gman1311

Well let me ask another question then. Is Dancer the support class you’ve always wanted in the game, I.E you feel like you’re being helpful?

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No. BRD filled that niche and they fooked it by throwing some of its utility to DNC.
We already had a job that rallied our party, they gutted it and gave it DNC.
So nah, and DNC isn't all that great, it's fun...Don't get me wrong but pretty much
the moment you unlock the job, you saw everything it pretty much has to offer.
I said in a post a day or two again, 4.0 BRD was what I was looking for.

Sooo, I rather them had made a melee healing dancer
(Don't ask me how, because at this point I don't with the battle structure)
or a normal healer because it's doing what BRD has already been doing.

Someone up in this joint needs to be a damned debuffer.
Attack down / Def Down / Magic Res Down. (BRD had foes and it got fooked.)
They could even make AST that with its cards.
It was pretty much our Time Mage too and they ruined it too.

Someone sing a song or dance a Haste? MP? Healing AoE? Song or Dance please?
But again, games core system is limiting us. We're getting to the point that it's so limiting
we're getting tanks and heals to be the exact same because any foot out the creativity box
gets shot out because of balancing issues. It's kinda sad.

Why would I want a support? Hmm...

When you play a difficult support class to the highest degree, it feels like nearly the same complexity as playing (or at the very least, knowing well) every single job in your party, with your own mechanics atop and alongside, especially if the lead or most necessary rate of output (be it damage, healing, or mitigation) over a brief duration at any given time in a fight varies between your party members frequently but in a way that can be predicted with enough knowledge of both the jobs in questions, and their actual players. I guess that's the big thing. It's like having a finger in every flavor of pie. It suits dabblers and control freaks alike.

This game has no true support jobs. That's what people want, a true support job.

Support classes in other MMOs are usually ones that are purely focused on buffing, debuffing, and offering utility. For example, having refreshable permanent stuns or dazes/sleeps to cast on enemies so they're out of the fight until the group is ready to attack them. Being able to tank, heal, or buff all simultaneously in an effective manner but at a reduced capacity, like being able to heal a single target powerfully enough that the real healer doesn't have to do it on specific occasions or applying an invulnerability buff to a party member similar to an FFXIV's tank invuln. Buffing damage or attack speed a very large amount rather than personally doing DPS on its own. Debuffing enemies by removing buffs from them or heavily reducing their damage, attack speed, etc, or applying specific debuffs that increase the amount of damage they take from specific party members or damage types.

The reason FFXIV doesn't currently have any true support jobs is because there is no niche for them. The content in this game is braindead from a mechanical standpoint (stand in specific places et al). Other MMOs have them because they have raids or endgame fights that involve things like needed to keep one enemy dazed or stunned for most a pull (like an enemy that might buff all the others around it as soon as it "wakes up", so you want to kill the rest before dealing with it), or fights that are pure DPS burn fights where you wouldn't even bring a traditional healer and instead bring a class that can just raise the party's damage to extreme amounts, or bosses that put buffs on themselves similar to the enrage buffs in FFXIV that have to be cleansed/removed periodically.

One of my favorite examples is Lord of the Rings Online and Loremaster. They were basically required for a lot of endgame content and even regular instances because the dungeon/fight design in that game incorporated a lot of "captain" type enemies that needed to be kept out of the fight or giant, powerful enemies that you weren't meant to kill at all and just avoid while going through the dungeon. There is no equivalent to that in FFXIV, dungeons are purely tank and spank here.

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Originally Posted by YojimboM

The reason FFXIV doesn't currently have any true support jobs is because there is no niche for them. The content in this game is braindead from a mechanical standpoint (stand in specific places et al). Other MMOs have them because they have raids or endgame fights that involve things like needed to keep one enemy dazed or stunned for most a pull (like an enemy that might buff all the others around it as soon as it "wakes up", so you want to kill the rest before dealing with it), or fights that are pure DPS burn fights where you wouldn't even bring a traditional healer and instead bring a class that can just raise the party's damage to extreme amounts, or bosses that put buffs on themselves similar to the enrage buffs in FFXIV that have to be cleansed/removed periodically.

One of my favorite examples is Lord of the Rings Online and Loremaster. They were basically required for a lot of endgame content and even regular instances because the dungeon/fight design in that game incorporated a lot of "captain" type enemies that needed to be kept out of the fight or giant, powerful enemies that you weren't meant to kill at all and just avoid while going through the dungeon. There is no equivalent to that in FFXIV, dungeons are purely tank and spank here.

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I get in arguments all the time with my buddy about this kind of thing all the time. :p I always confuse normal raids with trials, but he and the game calls them raids, but I always think they are trials, and we always go back and forth. I'm all like "it's just a boss on a platform this is a trial, what exactly is the difference between this and a trial?" He always goes that he "likes it this way anyway - skip all the trash straight to the boss". I would love to see some actual raids that require outside mechanics, like adds, or something else. Extra enemies doesn't always have to be filler, sometimes it can be a good aspect of a fight, even SWTOR had more detailed raids, in my opinion, and I haven't played that game really in like 4 years.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

what exactly is the difference between this and a trial?

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Reward structure, including lockout.

Raids are also released as a set. Alliance raids can be a set of 3 bosses in one instance. Normal raids can be a set of 4 bosses in 4 instances.

Trials are released standalone. One boss, one instance.

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Originally Posted by linay

Reward structure, including lockout.

Raids are also released as a set. Alliance raids can be a set of 3 bosses in one instance. Normal raids can be a set of 4 bosses in 4 instances.

Trials are released standalone. One boss, one instance.

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Yeah, I get that. Mostly me and my friend joking around. I'd like to see more detailed raids, the bosses themselves can be more interesting in this than other games, but I don't think they are really worthy of being called raids. Not enough content, in my opinion. Great opportunities to make game mechanics that could actually benefit having some sort of support class. Game isn't designed like that though, so I suppose more trash would literally just be more time wasters. Just focus on doing as much DPS as possible, and do just that. It seems the game is getting more and more based around that too, it's probably easier to balance.

Another question, are some of you disappointed with the amount debuffs players can use? We only have like two, Reprisal and trick attack. Everything else is crowd control (sleep, stun, heavy, ect)

The game's structure as well as how the fights are designed pretty much make any meaningful support impossible to implement. Even our sparse CC options stop working in 50 content for the most part and you don't need it in the overworld. They would have to redesign combat from the ground up again to make space for a pure support role and then there would be the balance issues which after 3 expansions now I think they just don't have the chops to handle that if they were to try.