Dear Paladins

I'm a tank main and recently leveled my SCH to 80. I was shocked how many tanks: 1 - Dont do big pulls, and 2 - Run into PLDs who casted Clemency before my excog would proc (keeping themselves above 50% HP)

I will say that the 10% of times a tank would actually pull wall to wall were somewhat of a shock, because I had so rarely had the opportunity to practice my healing rotation. When playing both roles, I would encourage yourself to allow a wipe once or even twice while attempting wall to wall pulls in order to help your healer learn. Pushing PuGs to the limit and trying to play optimally might cause a wipe and slow the run, but it will improve the skill level of the player base. I believe in giving people a chance to prove themselves before assuming they are bad players. If they aren't making it, try and offer advice where you can.

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Originally Posted by Sabrenn

Just gona leave this here

https://i.imgur.com/ZrvyBVM.png

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Is this the only healing spell astrologian has?

I had sooo many TERRBILE healers who just let me die, because they wanted me to hover under 50% hp all the time. When i meet healer like that i just leave the duty, not bother to murder myself over someone who is risking the wipe all the time.
Tank running around at 30% hp is super easy to be bursted down by mobs, since a lot of them in this expansion has a "stronger attacks" single target skills that does more damage than usual auto attacks, especially during the small downtime im between deffensive cooldowns, a tank at that level of hp without CD just die in an instant. Not to mention that tank in this situation is forced to run around in circles avoiding any kind of aoe damage, one mistake and one AOE eaten by a tank will wipe the party, and these aoe sometimes hit like a truck and could take up to 20% of tanks damage.

Healers who let their tank to run around with 30-40% are bad healers and should immediately stop playing this class.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I too am talking about PUGs, it's the standard healer playstyle to let your tank drop low and use big instant heals to bring them back up safely. Constantly keeping your tank above 50% HP is ineffective and bad healer play in any situation, and shouldn't be encouraged, much less demanded by tanks. Just focus on handling your own role and trust people to handle theirs. :) Then, if it turns out they can't, you can adjust.

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Lettting a tank drop low and using big instant heals is a sign of a bad healer. If i see any healer that keeps letting me drop low for whatever reason, then i get the impression that they don't know what their doing and start using clemency more. And if they start bitching at me for using clemency a lot, i ignore them. Because you know why.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

Lettting a tank drop low and using big instant heals is a sign of a bad healer. If i see any healer that keeps letting me drop low for whatever reason, then i get the impression that they don't know what their doing and start using clemency more. And if they start bitching at me for using clemency a lot, i ignore them. Because you know why.

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So healers should ignore their oGCD kit and spam GCD heals so tanks don't get scared for being a little low on health? That's like saying, oh I'll never use holmgang/superbolide/living dead because we don't want to scare the healers.

It is not my job to help the healer improve when i tank or to help the tank to improve when I heal. In DF my job is to make the run as efficient as possible and letting my tank die, or causing a wipe because I need to help the heal to learn, causing the run take longer than it need then the responsibility fall to me

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Originally Posted by kashi11

So healers should ignore their oGCD kit and spam GCD heals so tanks don't get scared for being a little low on health? That's like saying, oh I'll never use holmgang/superbolide/living dead because we don't want to scare the healers.

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They should not risk party a wipe, these oGCD are made that way for a reason they are emergency just like holmgang/superbolide, not for their casual use every 40-60 seconds.
There 2 more players who are better with tank NOT DYING due to a mistake.
Doing that you give your tank no space for a mistake, you have no control over him, he could get hit by 2 aoes and eat dirt and so is going everyone in the party costing you a ton more time than silly GCD use.

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Originally Posted by kashi11

So healers should ignore their oGCD kit and spam GCD heals so tanks don't get scared for being a little low on health? That's like saying, oh I'll never use holmgang/superbolide/living dead because we don't want to scare the healers.

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Yeah so it seems, healers shouldn't play their jobs well so that some tanks who don't understand how healers work won't get scared. :D

Edit: Of course playing the healer job well includes knowing how low you can safely let the tank drop without risking their death and a party wipe, and following their cooldown use and taking that into consideration while planning your healing. From reading this thread, it seems to me that some tanks are not very familiar with how potent healing abilities are and how they are used effectively, and get scared even when the healer is using them safely and correctly. It is of course a different matter if the healer is indeed letting their tank drop below the safe threshold, but I haven't personally witnessed that kind of a situation while playing a tank (or DPS) in dungeon pugs. From the opposite perspective, this reminds me of the pre-Shadowbringers tank stance discussions, and some healers who were complaining about tanks who were (as they should) doing dungeon boss fights in DPS stance.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Yeah so it seems, healers shouldn't play their jobs well so that some tanks who don't understand how healers work won't get scared. :D


Edit: Of course playing the healer job well includes knowing how low you can safely let the tank drop without risking their death and a party wipe, and following their cooldown use and taking that into consideration while planning your healing. From reading this thread, it seems to me that some tanks are not very familiar with how potent healing abilities are and how they are used effectively, and get scared even when the healer is using them safely and correctly. It is of course a different matter if the healer is indeed letting their tank drop below the safe threshold, but I haven't personally witnessed that kind of a situation while playing a tank (or DPS) in dungeon pugs.

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Yes, people just need to have a little more faith in the community. Better to grow as a community than gimp each other by assuming no one knows what they are doing.

Pretty much all of the bosses in Shadowbringers leveling dungeons has a mini tank buster that argues against letting them hover at low health. The second boss casts "The Tickler" in Holminster Switch as one example. I have used the Dark Knight barrier "The Blackest Night" and it is instantly broken by the busters (which we ironically want to happen so Dark Arts procs for a free mana attack). The Blackest Night Barrier is about 25% of the Dark Knight's Maximum HP to get a reference frame here. Do be mindful of these mechanics if you ride the danger zone to DPS more as a healer. Make sure the tank isn't going to get gibbed at 10% by "The Tickler" 3 seconds before Benediction is used.

As for the Astrologian question if 2 charges of Essential Dignity is their only oGCD heal, not quite. It's their main one, but they also have Horoscope, Collective Unconscious, and Earthly Star. Earthly Star actually does a decent AoE heal as well as a small damage burst if you let it charge for 10s. As for Collective Unconscious, I give you that to say it's not very practical to use all the time. You need people to walk into you for it to work.

when I need to stack 2 big cd in order to not die, that's a bad healer