Lahabrea, old vs new... *Spoilers*

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Based on context present in Shadowbringers I like to believe maybe he didn't necessarily want to bring about so much death and destruction. [snip]

We can only speculate as to what might have happened had the Warrior of Light proven strong enough to contain and control that light I grant, but if what we've seen so far in ShB so far is to be believed, it's entirely possible Emet-Selch would've proven far more amicable than people realize.

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There isn't anything from the game to support that. In fact:

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Alphinaud: What was your true purpose in approaching us?

Emet-Selch: By your Twelve, boy, have I not told you before that everything I said was the truth? You were specimens by which I might gauge man's potential as it stands. I genuinely had an interest in you. Genuinely considered taking you on as allies. Provided [he/she] could contain and control the Light. If not then [he/she] - and by extension you - would be of no use to me...

Thancred: [...] But even had we fulfilled your conditions, there was no guarantee that we would cooperate. What then?

Emet-Selch: Then I simply kill you all. At the very least, it would restore the world to the way it was before you went about trouncing Lightwardens willy-nilly.

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I still think his plan was weird, but will settle for having my head canon just be that he had a soft spot for who WoL used to be.

Can you elaborate on how what you've posted fails to support what I said? His threatening to kill them if they oppose him is pretty reasonable. What you've posted establishes the following:

1.) Emet-Selch was indeed being truthful.
2.) He was testing the potential of humanity.
3.) He legitimately did not want to kill them if he didn't have to.
4.) While rather set in his ways, Emet-Selch is not above being reasoned with. He shows a clear willingness to alter his plans to include some of the "lesser" lifeforms.

Peripherals indicate that a "might makes right" mindset is part of Emt-Selch's psychological makeup. His behavior just prior to his death that he was quite willing to accept it without qualm after his last ditch effort failed. A being that is unwilling to accept that it could've misjudged humanity's potential would not have been so rational and calm about their impending demise. Even his last request showed clear acceptance of his own fate as well as the WoL's strength.

It's important to remember that, in many instances such as these, we never really get direct confirmation of anything. SE has a habit of leaving a great many things up to player speculation. We will probably /never/ receive any kind of confirmation as to what would and would not have happened if Emet-Selch had indeed been proven wrong about humanity in a manner that did not include his destruction. .... His plan was definitely pretty weird, though. Kinda makes more sense if you read the game in Japanese. Emet-Selch has a bit more of that "might makes right" mentality than gets conveyed in the English text. That's probably why he accepted his death so gracefully after his last ditch effort failed.

You said this earlier:

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The calamities and rejoinings would no longer be necessary if the broken, fragmented souls could but prove themselves as having the potential to one day rise to the same heights as their forbears.

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The problem I see is that the narrative of Ancients vs. present races was never about power barring this "if you could contain the light" exception. Sure, the Ancients had incredible talent for using aether, but it's not clear how creation magic would help in creating the social cohesion and intellectual flourishing supposedly present in Amaurot. If everyone on the Source received a massive powerup, would that result in a utopia?

Another thing is that Emet's plan was to rejoin the shards and then sacrifice the survivors to bring back the Ancients. He doesn't seem to care about the lives of the new races regardless of whether their souls are made whole, which would put them on the same footing as Ancients according to your logic. (Complicating this is the fact that he talks as if everyone's soul is fragmented, whereas it's implied that only former Ancient souls are, as WoL is the only one powering up.)

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Can you elaborate on how what you've posted fails to support what I said?

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Right before the dialogue I posted, Emet-Selch also said, "I am an Ascian. My heart's sole desire is to usher in the great Rejoining." How I interpreted the conversation was that Emet-Selch considered sparing the Scions and WoL from the sacrifice to Zodiark if they agreed to help him. There's no indication in the game that he would abandon his plan for a Rejoining if WoL was able to contain the Light.

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Originally Posted by Kokomi

The problem I see is that the narrative of Ancients vs. present races was never about power barring this "if you could contain the light" exception. Sure, the Ancients had incredible talent for using aether, but it's not clear how creation magic would help in creating the social cohesion and intellectual flourishing supposedly present in Amaurot. If everyone on the Source received a massive powerup, would that result in a utopia?

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I will concede that Emet-Selch is the only Ascian to date to seem to be more interested in the power dynamic than the other aspects. As for everyone on the Source gaining power? They would probably destroy the world and themselves within days. Giving that kind of power to someone that has never had it before would be a catastrophe unto itself. This would only be a safe course of action if, as the Ascians seem to believe, people's identities are recovered along with their former power.

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Originally Posted by Kokomi

Another thing is that Emet's plan was to rejoin the shards and then sacrifice the survivors to bring back the Ancients. He doesn't seem to care about the lives of the new races regardless of whether their souls are made whole, which would put them on the same footing as Ancients according to your logic. (Complicating this is the fact that he talks as if everyone's soul is fragmented, whereas it's implied that only former Ancient souls are, as WoL is the only one powering up.)

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The Warrior of Light was the only one to "power up" because he/she underwent a rejoining of his/her own right there on screen. We do not, at this time, know if any other members of the Scions are fragmented Ancients. As for the second point, it was my understanding that every member of every Spoken race was originally an Ancient.

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Originally Posted by Kokomi

Right before the dialogue I posted, Emet-Selch also said, "I am an Ascian. My heart's sole desire is to usher in the great Rejoining." How I interpreted the conversation was that Emet-Selch considered sparing the Scions and WoL from the sacrifice to Zodiark if they agreed to help him. There's no indication in the game that he would abandon his plan for a Rejoining if WoL was able to contain the Light.

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Granted. I do recall him saying that. I also recall him speaking on other occasions about how tired he is of having to keep fighting. The guy is a miserable, broken shell. A mixture of his mental state, his willingness to accept that he could have misjudged mortal potential, and a few other factors lead me to conclude that he would change his tune if given sufficient cause to do so. Psychologically speaking, he was absolutely rife with "done" flags. Granted applying real world psychologic to a partially mind-controlled near-godlike entity is a bit silly, but it's difficult to refrain from forming opinions based around that.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The Warrior of Light was the only one to "power up" because he/she underwent a rejoining of his/her own right there on screen. We do not, at this time, know if any other members of the Scions are fragmented Ancients. As for the second point, it was my understanding that every member of every Spoken race was originally an Ancient.

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My assumption is that everyone with the Echo is a fragment of an Ancient, as it's the sole common link between the sundered Spoken and every Ascian thus far. Its awakening has also, since the Tanaka days, been accompanied with either a star shower or a vision of one, and the end of the old world had plenty of shooting stars.

Regardless, even if another sundered soul had been there(and possibly was, if that assumption is correct, since Ryne was present), I doubt he'd have given the sundered races the opportunities to prove themselves if it wasn't for the apparently unmistakable soul of his close friend.