Lahabrea, old vs new... *Spoilers*

[LineageRazor]

In Amaurot, we learn that Lahabrea of old was apparently quite the talented individual, well-respected among his peers.

The Lahabrea we encounter throughout ARR and HW, on the other hand, is a cackling, almost cartoonish villain, arrogant to the point of making some rather dim-witted mistakes.

In contemplating why, I came up with the thought: Perhaps Lahabrea was beaten extra thoroughly with the Temper stick?

Emet-Selch mentioned that all of the Convocation who summoned Zodiark were subsequently Tempered by him, and we know from the Beast Tribe quests that over-Tempering can have deleterious affects on the afflicted, from insanity to physical mutations.

We've seen Tempered that can't seem to shut up about how great and glorious their Primal is, and others subtle enough to infiltrate the ranks of our allies.

In spite of the fact that Lahabrea DID successfully infiltrate the Scions (as Thancred), I wonder if he might be one of the former, Tempered to the point where Zodiark and his glorious return are pretty much all he can think about anymore? It could explain how a respected orator has been reduced to CHAOS, EVERMORE!!!

[Hezzlocks]

Other possible factors:

It has been a long, long, LONG time since the extremely traumatic destruction of Amaurot and the deaths of just about everyone and everything he cared for. People change over time, especially when traumatic events are involved.

Emet-Selch doesn't like swapping bodies much and says doing so makes you weak. Lahabrea apparently swapped bodies a LOT. Perhaps it affected his mind as well.

[Hazama999]

Characters change, for the reasons you provided or otherwise.

That said, it was a bit jarring to hear praise for him... and who we fought was a moustache-twirling villain.

[Jaywalker]

Lmao see this is a fun theory on why he went full-throttle into mustache twirling, and I think it's totally possible (even likely) you're correct.

I've been speculating in a different direction on this point my own self and figure it might be fun to compare possibilities.

My theory rn is that all three of the unbroken Ascians were once, as respected members of Amaurotine society, about as nice as the ones we see in Emet-Selch's shades. Probably seeds of their personalities as we know them were there--Lahabrea might have had a very passionate mad-scientist streak, Emet-Selch might have had a somewhat wry sense of humor, Elidibus was probably still really tightly wound... but the bitterness, anger, and overall edge weren't there. Important to mention this because if Lahabrea was a Zenos-style sociopath, that would have really stood out against the shades of Amaurot.

They probably all three were working together fighting the creation magic-disaster between efforts to summon Zodiark, since Emet-Selch specifically knew what each monstrosity looked like and how it fought to the point of being able to recreate it in great detail. At that point they'd all likely still have been gray robed Amaurotines like the ones we saw, too.

Post-Zodiark, division happens between the remaining Amaurotines. Not all of them were tempered, and the untempered ones directly challenged the Zodiark summoners that included Lahabrea, Emet-Selch, and Elidibus by summoning Hydaelyn. Worth mentioning because as much as all three blame Hydaelyn herself, she was just enacting the will of her summoners. None of the unbroken three have said a single negative thing (or much of anything directly) about the Amaurotine summoners who disagreed with them enough to summon Hydaelyn.

Mentioned all that because post-sundering, each of the unbroken three basically gets challenged in not just how to deal with the Terminus event but the magical proxy war they lost against their fellow Amaurotines.

I have a bunch of theories about how Emet-Selch and Elidibus tried to deal, but for Lahabrea I think he did it by hitting total denial of any possibility of failure in the Rejoining. His arrogance is overcompensating for that absolute helplessness in saving Amaurot, and he basically is operating with the assumption that they'll totally succeed and when they do he'll have so many cool new discoveries to share with the other Amaurotines. Just completely glazes past the idea of death as a permanent thing that could happen to any of his companions or him. Emet-Selch is devastated by loss to the point of being willing to do anything to undo it, Elidibus seems to be focused on fixing it in the most levelheaded way he can, Lahabrea can't acknowledge the loss happened. Because he keeps entering high stakes, high consequences situations, honestly I think he's just going "nope this is fine this isn't a big deal this is an opportunity to use things I'm good at look at this creation magic it's kicking your ass hahahahahaha I'm unstoppable wait 'til the other Amaurotines see" at this point.

Might be a situation where if he admitted to himself that failure happened before and could seriously happen again he really wouldn't be able to deal and he'd become useless. Might explain why after being repeatedly trounced by WoL he just keeps going like nothing happened even as other Ascians give him the side-eye. Also why he didn't react much at all when Igeyorhm died, his brain basically skipped over it. Might be part of why he keeps body-hopping too even though it's damaging himself based on what Emet-Selch said. Lahabrea just can't admit he has limits and can fail because if he lets that reality in even a little, suddenly he has to deal with all of it. He's failed a lot. Everyone knows it. But if he stops trying, he lives in a world with no Amaurot ever again and where he can be legitimately helpless despite all his power.

XD But that's a longer and waaaaay more complicated possible route between point A and point B. It's still fun to call him a dummy.

[ObsidianFire]

The "names" of the Ascians as we know them are not their actual names. They are the titles of their positions in Amaurot. So there has been many Lahabreas, many Emet-Selchs, many Elidibuses, etc. Our current Lahabrea was probably the last in a long line of Lahabreas that started with the first one talked about in the Akademia Aynder.

[Bright-Flower]

I worry that they might be bringing him back somehow.

He should be dead. I hope he's dead. But they have that line from late ARR with Elidibus implying he had his own agenda that never paid off. And the msq feels a need to keep namedropping him and even said he was Unsundered when they could have just as easily said Elidibus and Emet-Selch were the only TWO unsundered ascians, Making Lahabrea unsundered doesn't add anything to his ARR/HW story in retrospect. But if they 'do' plan to bring him back it could add credibility to that.

I hope I'm wrong and just overthinking it.

[Daralii]

I worry that they might be bringing him back somehow.

He should be dead. I hope he's dead. But they have that line from late ARR with Elidibus implying he had his own agenda that never paid off. And the msq feels a need to keep namedropping him and even said he was Unsundered when they could have just as easily said Elidibus and Emet-Selch were the only TWO unsundered ascians, Making Lahabrea unsundered doesn't add anything to his ARR/HW story in retrospect. But if they 'do' plan to bring him back it could add credibility to that.

I hope I'm wrong and just overthinking it.

It adds a little extra to frame how far he fell, and how hard the thousands of years of labor had been on the three of them. Also, while I can't remember the cutscene exactly, I think he specifically said that Hydaelyn's laws were the reason Ascian Prime was torn in half, and I suppose that could be viewed as foreshadowing about her purpose. If anyone would know how to probe the extent of those laws, it'd be the master of creation magic that spearheaded the Guardian Force projects.

[Anonymoose]

I joked to a few friends that you can reconcile them pretty easily if you assume Lahabrea was the stereotypical arrogant, elitist tenured professor d[kupo!]bag and now none of us can unsee it. Introducing unnecessary risk and unpredictability to sure-fire plans because you're over-confident, self-absorbed, and consumed by a desire to innovate for the sake of your own amusement and aggrandizement is bound to fray a few nerves over the millennia.

[Cilia]

12,000+ years isn't going to do wonders for your sanity.

[Nalien]

Oh hey, it's my favorite topic ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I worry that they might be bringing him back somehow.

Oh he is coming back, all this praise in Amaurot is foreshadowing for his genius master plan of survival, I'm sure.

Worth noting that the two people who spent the most time with the Eye of Niddy (which Lahabrea was totally trapped in after Thordan blasted him), are now standing in the same room. Both Estinien and Zenos effectively fused with the Eye to become a Dragon, now they both have a little bit of Lahabrea in them as a result, waiting to become whole... Oh and who is the third person in that room with them? Only Mister "Lahabrea was to be my primary quarry!" himself... Essentially he is now sundered Lahabrea, which explains Elidibus not noticing, given Emet didn't notice who we were all that well either... One thing I noticed about Amaurot was they had a very big focus on debate, and not entirely with a goal of "beating" your opponent, but instead simply gaining new insight. Now, you can view the entire plot at this point as a debate between Ancients, the debate being Zodiark vs Hydaelyn, Unsundered vs Sundered. Now, we're constantly winning that debate at this point, and a master orator (as Lahabrea was described) would have to take notice of this, right? He'd have to wonder why we have the upper hand, and unless he truly has gone mad over the eons, he'd want to gain insight into our side of the debate in order to better counter our points... How would he do that? Willingly letting himself get sundered, that's where our strength lies after all. I'm telling you, his genius is unrivaled, he'll come back and comment on Emets crowning act of stupidity, "You think hanging around them for a week, while mostly napping, will help you reach an understanding?"

I'm joking by the way, he is definitely dead and never coming back... but what if he is?