Question for fellow DRK's who have played its new Shb iteration.

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

I'm lv72 drk and I loveeee it. Guess people actually liked spamming dark arts over and over and over ect.

If you were expecting all classes to play radically different at 80 that's on you as far as expectations. Not every job needs reinvented every time there's an expansion. DARK gets 3 new skills, and the upgrades to flood and edge compliment drk. I'm not sure what people were expecting but each day it seems people only come to the forums to complain about x thing, or how y is bad now.

OP I do garentee trying it yourself unless you loved dark arts spam. If anything DRK feels more engaging to me.

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So you like it to have actually less buttons to press, less OGCDs and for the most part just spamming your one combo for a whole minute without nothing else to do for a whole minute? With the odd edge of shadows in between that you get maybe every 20 seconds?

See when you read these comments you in the forums you see the SAME exacts trolls complaint about DRK like that's all the care about since Heavensward. Shit you could probably name them by name now since it's so apprent that it's the same people and especially when you don't agree and say you like the new DRK. What's really apparent most of these trolls have not played DRK. Example one troll commented that you need to spam Edge and flood until your mp is out SMH no why would you do that it's only there to help keep drk side. Another one said we use only one combo SMH if you tank period you would know NO ONE uses there enmity combo unless your a bad tank I'm sorry the game evolved from that and you can blame WAR 3.0 and 4.0 for that so get with the times.... I am actually playing the job and they worked the timers on the ogcds on purpose the more I play the job the more I understand the rework more and more the Main purpose of edge on flood is to keep darkside spamming that will lead to a dps loss. Not to mention TBN which helps get free blood for else or flood so that's always in your opener for me it's within the first pull.Next managing blackblood which will accumulate alot with the soul eater combo which must not stay full since that will be a dps loss(that statement alone tells you DRK can't be a 123 tank) you are constantly rotating bloodspiller carve and spit and eldge or flood as you unspecified rotation but must be mastered to properly pull off great DPS.

You also have 2 burst windows your delirum which now everyone loves(people I play with that play the job)and blood weapon. The thing I found is that you shouldnt use them together it's is a overall loss for dps In my opinion. The only synergy I am working on is living shadow since that 50 blood and best to used before a delirum burst window.

To summerize trolls will be trolls. For those that like the job they will hate it's the same people.I love the new drk. I love the direction all the tanks are going if I were to rate them in my opinion I would do PLD(easy to play but mitigation is still godly) DRK, WAR tied for me( DPS) and last GNB which is fun for me nice addition.

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

See when you read these comments you in the forums you see the SAME exacts trolls complaint about DRK like that's all the care about since Heavensward. Shit you could probably name them by name now since it's so apprent that it's the same people and especially when you don't agree and say you like the new DRK. What's really apparent most of these trolls have not played DRK. Example one troll commented that you need to spam Edge and flood until your mp is out SMH no why would you do that it's only there to help keep drk side. Another one said we use only one combo SMH if you tank period you would know NO ONE uses there enmity combo unless your a bad tank I'm sorry the game evolved from that and you can blame WAR 3.0 and 4.0 for that so get with the times.... I am actually playing the job and they worked the timers on the ogcds on purpose the more I play the job the more I understand the rework more and more the Main purpose of edge on flood is to keep darkside spamming that will lead to a dps loss. Not to mention TBN which helps get free blood for else or flood so that's always in your opener for me it's within the first pull.Next managing blackblood which will accumulate alot with the soul eater combo which must not stay full since that will be a dps loss(that statement alone tells you DRK can't be a 123 tank) you are constantly rotating bloodspiller carve and spit and eldge or flood as you unspecified rotation but must be mastered to properly pull off great DPS.

You also have 2 burst windows your delirum which now everyone loves(people I play with that play the job)and blood weapon. The thing I found is that you shouldnt use them together it's is a overall loss for dps In my opinion. The only synergy I am working on is living shadow since that 50 blood and best to used before a delirum burst window.

To summerize trolls will be trolls. For those that like the job they will hate it's the same people.I love the new drk. I love the direction all the tanks are going if I were to rate them in my opinion I would do PLD(easy to play but mitigation is still godly) DRK, WAR tied for me( DPS) and last GNB which is fun for me nice addition.

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If you don't spam Edge/Flood, you're losing DPS. You don't have anything else to spend mana on until TBN, and even then you should always dump mana at any point you're at 6k MP or above. It's free damage, and you earn enough mana even without Blood Weapon/Delirium to throw one EoS/FoS each 20 seconds. The only reason to not spam EoS/FoS is aligning it with Trick Attack's window, and after that's gone, you have some time in which you should still spam EoS/FoS. If you don't have a NIN, then there is pretty much no reason at all to not use EoS when your mana is at 6k or above. If you don't need to TBN (solo content/no shielding necessary/below 70) you just dump mana into EoS always.

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Originally Posted by Ignimortis

If you don't spam Edge/Flood, you're losing DPS. You don't have anything else to spend mana on until TBN, and even then you should always dump mana at any point you're at 6k MP or above. It's free damage, and you earn enough mana even without Blood Weapon/Delirium to throw one EoS/FoS each 20 seconds. The only reason to not spam EoS/FoS is aligning it with Trick Attack's window, and after that's gone, you have some time in which you should still spam EoS/FoS. If you don't have a NIN, then there is pretty much no reason at all to not use EoS when your mana is at 6k or above. If you don't need to TBN (solo content/no shielding necessary/below 70) you just dump mana into EoS always.

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Ok lets define spamming for a moment. You spam edge or flood until Zero MP let's say now if you play the job you lose darkside because of this spamming what then you just lose 10% buff with darkside and have to wait to bring that back. Hense why I said you don't spam edge or flood you manage it in correlation with your black blood. Another point if you spam edge and flood to 0 you can't do TBN so again another example of a dps loss since it gives you instant edge or flood at no mp loss. Now I won't factor trick attack because besides trail savage there is no content right now to try this out but I'm speaking from experience you should "spam" edge or flood that IS a loss and I am speaking this again from experience not theory.

Shouldn't***

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

Ok lets define spamming for a moment. You spam edge or flood until Zero MP let's say now if you play the job you lose darkside because of this spamming what then you just lose 10% buff with darkside and have to wait to bring that back. Hense why I said you don't spam edge or flood you manage it in correlation with your black blood. Another point if you spam edge and flood to 0 you can't do TBN so again another example of a dps loss since it gives you instant edge or flood at no mp loss. Now I won't factor trick attack because besides trail savage there is no content right now to try this out but I'm speaking from experience you should "spam" edge or flood that IS a loss and I am speaking this again from experience not theory.

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I've done DRK up to 75th level so far. You have to try really, really, really hard on purpose to not have enough MP to keep Darkside up. You open up a fight with double EoS (4k mana left, enough for TBN at any point), and you generate 1400 pretty much in the next 5 seconds (CnS+Syphon Strike+regen tick). Another combo and you have enough for another EoS. If you have to TBN, you keep 3k in reserve (this can be adjusted downwards as long as you're aware of the fight/regen rates and know how much time is left till the next tankbuster). If you don't have to TBN, you can spam to your heart's content, because there is nothing else you can do with MP.

My observation is that DRK is now modeled after warrior even more than I had originally thought:

- WAR maintains Storms Eye whereas DRK weaves Edge/Flood into their combo.
- Both use Fell Cleave/Bloodspiller when able.
- Inner Release is WAR equivalent of Delirium.
- Infuriate is the WAR equivalent of Blood Weapon
- Upheaval is the WAR equivalent of Carve and Spit.
- Nascent Chaos is the WAR equivalent to Living Shadow.

They are point for point modeled the same with just class flavored flourishes. I would buy the argument that they did this to ease balance and would accept it begrudgingly if they had also changed PLD and GNB to use this model. But since those two classes play significantly differently and could be balanced it seems to me that they were just lazy with the DRK redesign.

At least I personally feel the DRK version of the DRK/WAR pair is the less boring of the two since managing MP and weaving Edge/Flood is more engaging to me than maintaining Storms Eye. But I found 4.0 WAR mind numbing so it's not saying much.

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Originally Posted by Cirdan-Faust

My observation is that DRK is now modeled after warrior even more than I had originally thought:

- WAR maintains Storms Eye whereas DRK weaves Edge/Flood into their combo.
- Both use Fell Cleave/Bloodspiller when able.
- Inner Release is WAR equivalent of Delirium.
- Infuriate is the WAR equivalent of Blood Weapon
- Upheaval is the WAR equivalent of Carve and Spit.
- Nascent Chaos is the WAR equivalent to Living Shadow.

They are point for point modeled the same with just class flavored flourishes. I would buy the argument that they did this to ease balance and would accept it begrudgingly if they had also changed PLD and GNB to use this model. But since those two classes play significantly differently and could be balanced it seems to me that they were just lazy with the DRK redesign.

At least I personally feel the DRK version of the DRK/WAR pair is the less boring of the two since managing MP and weaving Edge/Flood is more engaging to me than maintaining Storms Eye. But I found 4.0 WAR mind numbing so it's not saying much.

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Exactly what I been saying since media tour and after playing WAR. WAR 5.0 is extremely boring all do is wait for inner realese To then get the more powerful fell cleave that's it! I do plan to fully lvl WAR fully since I'm about done DRK.

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Originally Posted by Ignimortis

I've done DRK up to 75th level so far. You have to try really, really, really hard on purpose to not have enough MP to keep Darkside up. You open up a fight with double EoS (4k mana left, enough for TBN at any point), and you generate 1400 pretty much in the next 5 seconds (CnS+Syphon Strike+regen tick). Another combo and you have enough for another EoS. If you have to TBN, you keep 3k in reserve (this can be adjusted downwards as long as you're aware of the fight/regen rates and know how much time is left till the next tankbuster). If you don't have to TBN, you can spam to your heart's content, because there is nothing else you can do with MP.

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I gurantee you have a dps loss with your whatever calculations. Have you done titiania yet? Did you parse your dps during that fight ? Let's start there

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

I gurantee you have a dps loss with your whatever calculations. Have you done titiania yet? Did you parse your dps during that fight ? Let's start there

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Yes, I did Titania. Didn't parse, since my toaster is already hardlocked to 30 FPS and every little bit helps, but I never lost Darkside (in fact, I have never lost Darkside so far, aside from dying or out of combat downtime), and we didn't have a NIN, so I'm not sure where exactly I could lose DPS concerning MP usage. Kept 3k in reserve for TBNs, anything above that went into EoS. Since the window for reapplication is so generous and the fight doesn't stop for more than 15 seconds, I'm not sure how you could've optimized MP there in any way.