Blue Mage's implementation sucks. But, you aren't worse off for having it.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The fact that evolution is needed doesn't mean you can randomly make untested changes, especially when said change only applies to outdated content that's more than 3 years old. Also, I think you ll be disappointed if you expect something incredible with the blu, because a DPS spell is a DPS spell no matter what its skin is (that's also why I don't get the "hard to balance" argument, ffxiv is designed to be easy to balance, it s the root of its battle system).

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"a DPS spell is a DPS spell no matter what its skin is". Isn't that the point of limited jobs though? To be able have a job that doesn't only have DPS spells playing like any other DPS spells?
Historically, Blue Magic toolkit was mostly made of crowd control/status effect skills, elemental skills, situationnal skills, support skills, and gimmicky/weird skills. All of these are incompatible with the way FFXIV battle content is designed, and would have to be completly reworked.

Not saying that a rework was impossible, we already have SMN and RDM to show that it can be done, at the cost of iconic aspects of these jobs' identity in previous titles. The arguing point is to say if it is desirable or not. And for that, the only viable answer is: "to each their own".

Anyone remember how Astro was when it was first introduced..ya there is your support job. But until we see what its abilities are and how it plays we will just continue to go in circles about this.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

"a DPS spell is a DPS spell no matter what its skin is". Isn't that the point of limited jobs though? To be able have a job that doesn't only have DPS spells playing like any other DPS spells?
Historically, Blue Magic toolkit was mostly made of crowd control/status effect skills, elemental skills, situationnal skills, support skills, and gimmicky/weird skills. All of these are incompatible with the way FFXIV battle content is designed, and would have to be completly reworked.

Not saying that a rework was impossible, we already have SMN and RDM to show that it can be done, at the cost of iconic aspects of these jobs' identity in previous titles. The arguing point is to say if it is desirable or not. And for that, the only viable answer is: "to each their own".

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I used DPS as an exemple because the job was stated to be a DPS during the presentation, but it works too with mitigation abilities and healing abilities. There are very little status and exotic effects in FFXIV, by design. Also, it is funny to see you talk about SMN, seeing how it lost iconic aspects due to budget downsize (what cost more to implement, decent looking summons or the ugly egis we have ?).

You do realize that effort put into this sort of sideshow content does still detract from effort put into content people actually want, right? The devs haven't figured out how to break science and logic, and somehow managed to put 100% of their effort into multiple projects at the same time.

There's a reason why we used to get 3 dungeons per patch in ARR, that it went down to 2 in HW, and went down to 1.5 again in SB... among other such growing signs of neglect.

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If they released it like every other job people would complain about them not handling it differently.

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Out of the countless complaints I have seen made about every other job in the game, one of the complaints I have never seen was that they didn't "handle them differently" and exclude them from content every other job got to do. I'd like to hear why you think that would be the case for a (full) BLU implementation.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

I used DPS as an exemple because the job was stated to be a DPS during the presentation, but it works too with mitigation abilities and healing abilities.

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Well, yes, but BLU has all three of these. And that doesn't really fit into the role system/holy trinity we have.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

There are very little status and exotic effects in FFXIV, by design.

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Which is exactly my point. Exotic stuff doesn't work well in the current mold we have. Which is why they are making BLU break that mold, at the cost of... well... not fitting in it, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Also, it is funny to see you talk about SMN, seeing how it lost iconic aspects due to budget downsize (what cost more to implement, decent looking summons or the ugly egis we have ?).

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Yes, that's also exactly my point...


What are you arguing against here?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Anyone remember how Astro was when it was first introduced..ya there is your support job. But until we see what its abilities are and how it plays we will just continue to go in circles about this.

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No... was not a support job, was clearly a healer spec with some support additions. like the bard in ARR was a DPS with some support things. but far from a support job. BLU, RDM or BRD from FFXI are far more support. (and could get other example from other game, but we are on FF game so lets see other FF right ? ;)

Were no worse off? The simple fact that they spent dev time on it instead of doing something else proves you wrong.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

No... was not a support job, was clearly a healer spec with some support additions. like the bard in ARR was a DPS with some support things. but far from a support job. BLU, RDM or BRD from FFXI are far more support. (and could get other example from other game, but we are on FF game so lets see other FF right ? ;)

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No their not support jobs but you cant be support only and bring nothing else too the table as you will become a hinderance. Astro is a healer with some support abilties, Blu will dps with Support abilities there never going to gvie a straight support only job.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

I don't care about how things are done or why, all I care about, as a customer, is the result. And what I m saying as a customer is that these practices aren't acceptable. As you pointed out there are a lot of alternatives that can, are and will be played instead. FFXIV is the only game I play where I feel that the developer isn't being honest with what it is said that will be delivered and what is indeed delivered. FFXIV as it is currently is is an aging game, especially when it doesn't evolve.

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As a customer, you SHOULD care why companies make decisions. Because as a customer, Complaining non stop about something without thinking WHY something might be done may hurt that company in a way YOU dont intend (or want). However, yorue ascribing motives to their actions, and are doing so by giving htem ill intentions. And you know what, if thats what you want to do, feel free. You should also unsub if you dont like it. Why would you give a con artist your money freely, if you know theyre lying to you?

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The issue was both in the concept and in the execution. And it is even worse to see such a content after the diadem.

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They tried Eureka as a solution to how Diadem was. And you know what, when teh NM train got going, Eureka Anemos wasnt to bad. Wasnt 'incredible', but it wasnt terrible. It got the most flak from Pagos. This is where the Devs made a huge mistake. And I dont fault htem for trying to make it work. It seemed like a project they wanted to work but failed. That happens. Sucks for us, but its not the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

No they didn't. On the contrary, there are an increasing amount of mechanics being recycled (especially soaks).

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Right, because complexity of a fight is strictly a matter of "New Mechanics" thing and not how the fight plays out. "Omg! Boss used a tank buster or stack mechanic! THIS IS GARBAGE LAZY DESIGN!"

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

No they aren't. As a business transparency should be a thing and implying you ll deliver something better than what is actually delivered isn't a good practice.

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Not every business can deliver on what it promises. thats real life. Get used ot it. You dont like it, stop paying for their service and find some business who will. And business transparency has almost never been a thing for very pragmatic reasons. You really think the Devs or SE is gonna ell you "Yeah, you know that thing we wanted to do, well were financially strapped atm and cant do it. We had to lay off employees. "etc etc. You think theyre gonna say that out loud? You want to scare off investors and make things worse?

Im nto saying these are there reasons, and yes I understand the frustration of not knowing, but dang. You have some wierd views on how things should work....

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

No people are complaining because the idea of a limited job is a step back from what we currently have its more of a de-evolution.

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No, this is all opinion. We dont know how this is going to play out. Youre speculating. This is why you got to wait to play stuff and THEN get angry.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The fact that evolution is needed doesn't mean you can randomly make untested changes, especially when said change only applies to outdated content that's more than 3 years old. Also, I think you ll be disappointed if you expect something incredible with the blu, because a DPS spell is a DPS spell no matter what its skin is (that's also why I don't get the "hard to balance" argument, ffxiv is designed to be easy to balance, it s the root of its battle system).

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This is kinda silly. A lot of game devs Try untested changes. What do you think 1.0 to ARR was? A lot of untested changes. And I HIGHLY doubt its random. And its not HARD to balance. Its hard to balance in party play if were sticking to some of the core concepts people were asking for. Ive explained this enough already.

Also, you know if you hate the devs so much, why are you paying them with your time and money?

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

But... ...
we HAVE more of the same ham-fisted Trinity gameplay.
If they wanted to do some evolution and not adding a content, but a REAL evolution, they would add the Blue Mage as a job able to do top endgame content (so, even ultimate fights) WITHOUT being a tank or a heal or a DD...
But no, because they dont want to break this trinity, they dont add blue mage as job, but as side content !

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What? Ok, lets break this down: You either are suggesting they design end tier raids that BLU can SOLO (thus not being any of the trinity but all three at once), or you want to design end tier content where they will be in a party but...wont be a DD, Healer, or Tank? Huh? What would they be? Jack of all trades? Able to do everything at the same level of competency as dedicated classes? Cause thatll be super balanced!

The reason MMOs like the trinity is because it works. For there not to be a Trinity, that would require designing the combat system from the ground up, which would mean treating the game more like Rathelos broadly. This isnt somethign Im opposed to, but this kind of change at the macro level is not something to sneeze at. This would be in an Xpac itself.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

"a DPS spell is a DPS spell no matter what its skin is". Isn't that the point of limited jobs though? To be able have a job that doesn't only have DPS spells playing like any other DPS spells?
Historically, Blue Magic toolkit was mostly made of crowd control/status effect skills, elemental skills, situationnal skills, support skills, and gimmicky/weird skills. All of these are incompatible with the way FFXIV battle content is designed, and would have to be completly reworked.

Not saying that a rework was impossible, we already have SMN and RDM to show that it can be done, at the cost of iconic aspects of these jobs' identity in previous titles. The arguing point is to say if it is desirable or not. And for that, the only viable answer is: "to each their own".

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ed_job_system/