Healers need other ways to contribute to party DPS instead of boring filler spells.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

To a point this is right, Say a Monk trying to use a Mind Materia, that would not work even with its healing skill. But in terms of intelligence on a healer it does help slightly with attack magic. .

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It literally does not, with the changes they made from Heavensward into Stormsblood they gutted INT stat to being completely null and void on healers including for their damage. As someone who raids specifically on healer for a majority of content and has to maximize how helpful I am, by contributing more than just keeping people above 0 -_- , Just go read the stormsblood patch notes and you'll find that the changes they made to the skills and stats is read out very plain and clear.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

wrong

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https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Attributes

Please read this. You are blatantly spreading poor information. That's gonna have to stop.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

To a point this is right, Say a Monk trying to use a Mind Materia, that would not work even with its healing skill. But in terms of intelligence on a healer it does help slightly with attack magic.

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No, it does not. Healer damage is based off of MIND as of Stormblood. Not INTELLIGENCE. Melding INT on a healer does NOTHING as their damage is NOT based off of their INT stat, but off off the MND stat. Which is what people are telling you. Stop giving out bad advice.

For future reference, the stat that affects the DAMAGE of jobs are as follows:

STR: tanks, MNK, DRG, SAM
DEX: NIN, BRD, MCH
INT: casters ONLY
MND: healers ONLY

There is no "STR on a RDM" or "INT on a healer" in this game.

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Originally Posted by Ceallach

Says the person who directly insulted me first. Perhaps you should look in the mirror before you start going on accusatory rants about how you're right and everyone else is wrong.

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Hello, I read what Moro wrote. That is not a personal insult; that is sarcasm. You calling someone a "sarcastic lout" is, however. The difference is simple: she didn't insult your character, but you insulted hers.

If people are at a comfortable HP level or will reach a comfortable HP level through HoTs or an oGCD such as Assize or Earthly Star, healers should be using their GCDs to contribute to DPS. Standing around waiting for outgoing damage, or topping party members off to the point of invalidating HoTs or oGCD healing abilities, especially with no heavy hitting raid-wide damage incoming, is not constructive play.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Hello, I read what Moro wrote. That is not a personal insult; that is sarcasm. You calling someone a "sarcastic lout" is, however. The difference is simple: she didn't insult your character, but you insulted hers.

If people are at a comfortable HP level or will reach a comfortable HP level through HoTs or an oGCD such as Assize or Earthly Star, healers should be using their GCDs to contribute to DPS. Standing around waiting for outgoing damage, or topping party members off to the point of invalidating HoTs or oGCD healing abilities, especially with no heavy hitting raid-wide damage incoming, is not constructive play.

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The fact she didn't say what you said is what made it insulting. It was the same as saying I'm "a retarded piece of trash that can't tell the difference between a goobbue and a rabbit," for example. I realize that it's especially difficult with text-only conversation to watch one's tone, but she is someone who should work harder at that. In the meantime, I will work on not lashing out immediately at rude people.

I was simply trying to point out priorities. As healers, our duty first and foremost is to prevent death. If people die, and it wasn't because they were being silly by standing in a clearly-marked area attack or something, it's probably our fault. That DPS loss is the healer's fault for not healing when he or she should have. Damage output is nice, but because it's so secondary to what we do, it requires teamwork to allow for. If everyone else is doing their jobs well, then sure, blast away. I have no issue with that. But if people don't know the fight or are bad at the game in general, a healer shouldn't bother with attack spells because progression is more important than healer DPS. That's all I was trying to say, and if not for a certain someone's sarcastic reply, it's all I would have said.

Offense is taken, not given, especially in text form where interpreting context is the reader's responsibility.

They're right. In HW and ARR INT used to be tied to magic attack. As part of Stormblood's changes it was made so that for healers MND scaled attack and healing magic potency. The old Cleric Stance did more than just swap INT and MND, however. It also gave you a 10% Magic damage bonus and a 20% Healing magic penalty. If SE wanted, they could add the latter part back in. However, I believe just adding another GCD DoT spell to each healer and either reduce the current Cleric Stance's cooldown to 40-60s or increase its potency to 10-15% would be enough to help even things out.

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Originally Posted by Ceallach

The fact she didn't say what you said is what made it insulting. It was the same as saying I'm "a retarded piece of trash that can't tell the difference between a goobbue and a rabbit," for example. I realize that it's especially difficult with text-only conversation to watch one's tone, but she is someone who should work harder at that. In the meantime, I will work on not lashing out immediately at rude people.

I was simply trying to point out priorities. As healers, our duty first and foremost is to prevent death. If people die, and it wasn't because they were being silly by standing in a clearly-marked area attack or something, it's probably our fault. That DPS loss is the healer's fault for not healing when he or she should have. Damage output is nice, but because it's so secondary to what we do, it requires teamwork to allow for. If everyone else is doing their jobs well, then sure, blast away. I have no issue with that. But if people don't know the fight or are bad at the game in general, a healer shouldn't bother with attack spells because progression is more important than healer DPS. That's all I was trying to say, and if not for a certain someone's sarcastic reply, it's all I would have said.

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I assure you my intended tone was one of sarcasm. I had assumed that was clear based on the ridiculous preposition of purposely killing myself only to blame a healer. There is a difference between responding to a comment you see as stupid with sarcasm and calling people names. What I said to you may have ruffled your feathers but it also got my point across, what you said to me was just you being petty and insulting. There is a difference.

For the sake of you feeling like your opinion is respected I'll lose the sarcasm and see if you prefer this response.

You assert that the party dps contribution is somehow also the dps contribution of the healer(s) keeping them alive to do that dps.

By that train of thought anything anyone does that saves the life of another party member means the dps contributed by the rescued player is also dps contributed by their rescuer. After all this person would not be alive without the help of their ally.

So a PLD covering someone now is credited with the dps contribution of the recipient of that cover. A WAR using Shake it Off or a BRD popping Troubadour is also now credited with potentially 'keeping people alive'...

Do you see how convoluted this is? No one is ever able to take credit for someone else's contribution. We are all responsible for the numbers we put up. If as a healer you choose to ignore your healing responsibilities in favor of pumping out dps even if the entire party apart from you dies as long as you clear your numbers are still your own.

I'm not advocating for healers to prioritize their personal dps over the lives of their party members. Feel free to look at my logs - I clearly prioritize necessary healing over my own damage. Don't attempt to straw man me.

You tried to say that a dealer's dps contribution was related to the party members they keep alive. That is the issue here. Don't try to backpedal now, the quote is there. Whether you do 1k dps and do an amazing job keeping everyone alive or 1k dps and let people die left and right your personal damage remains the same. I'm not arguing those two people performed equally well, only that they have the same exact dps contribution.

As for ignoring dps for the sake of a weak party... get a better party.

And yet Intelligence still states it raises spell attack.. I swear if you elites ever thought outside your boxes it'd be scary..

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Originally Posted by Vorx

And yet Intelligence still states it raises spell attack.. I swear if you elites ever thought outside your boxes it'd be scary..

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FOR CASTERS. NOT FOR HEALERS.
If you actually read the pop-up for the MND stat, you would see that it states:

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Affects healing magic potency. Also affects attack magic potency when role is Healer.

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The pop-up under the INT stat says NO SUCH THING.

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Intelligence: Affects attack magic potency when role is Tank or DPS.

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Though, any magic damage a tank deals does not scale off of their INT stat. Lest you think Holy Spirit is an INT-based skill, and you needs meld INT materia on your PLD.

If only you would bother to actually read. As I said to you in the other thread, it’s not elitism to call you out for giving BAD OR INCORRECT advice. What you’re saying in both threads falls under both categories.

Here’s some more information for you. Patch 4.0 Notes:

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Originally Posted by Patch 4.0 Release Notes

The calculation for magic attack power of jobs designated as healers has been adjusted.

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This means that healer attack power no longer scales off on INT like it did in ARR and HW, but off of MND. Again, actually reading the pop-ups that appear under the respective stats in the Character menu would show you that. Even in ARR and HW, healers never melded INT into their gear; the gains from it were minuscule compared to the gains one received from Accuracy, Crit, or Determination. Even Spell Speed was more valuable for some.

If that’s not enough, here is something from Yoshida himself. This was from the Famitsu Interview in May 2017:

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Originally Posted by Yoshida; Famitsu Interview

Yoshida: So we decided to calculate healers' attack magic potency based on MND. Since you no longer need Cleric Stance, you can Holy whenever you feel like it. After stunning the enemies with Swiftcast Holy, you can then catch up with heals. With this increased level of comfort, the number of people participating in instanced dungeons as healer will definitely go up.

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Source: https://www.famitsu.com/news/201705/31134240.html



Please, for the sake of the Twelve, go educate yourself and stop spreading misinformation. If you want to be an STR RDM or INT Healer, then whatever. You do you. But do not advertise your way of play as being anything other than incorrect. To insinuate that it’s a valid way to build one’s healers is wrong.

Cleric stance then:
Switches INT and MIND

Meaning, healer got and acutal attack stat because mind didn't count as the primary stat for healer attack. Cleric stance dance was a thing.

Cleric stance now:
Buffs for... i don't know the % for an amount of time.

Meaning, it's just like any other damage buff. Like Raging strikes from BRD.



They changed it to abuff because MIND is what healer use now. Since the beginning of Stormblood


Has nothing to do with being an elitist.

And even back then, did INT melding actually do anything worthwile because if you wanted to do actual damage, you went into cleric stance, which switched the two stats? Were the melds static?

https://i.imgur.com/sQk4sQz.png
https://i.imgur.com/YxTdhZO.png
https://i.imgur.com/zQUYoHC.png