Scholar vs Astrologian Mitigation

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Hmm...what about Fey Illumination? It's a 10% healing potency buff for SCH. Since the shields are based on the cures, any increase in the cure potency = increase in the shield potency, right?
It has a big CD, but you included Deployment Tactics so shouldn't Fey Illumination count as well?

Because if you use a FI Adlo, that's 330 normal, 660 crit.
FI succor = 247.5

Just worth mentioning.

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Deployment Tactics is strictly a mitigation cooldown. Fey Illumination is not. It's as simple as that. Otherwise I'd have taken Dissipation into account too.
But even then, it still doesn't change the situation of A.Benefic being miles above Adlo regarding single target shields, and Deployment Tactics giving the edge to the SCH in terms of AoE shielding. And notice how a Succor buffed by Fey Illum is still slightly below a simple A.Helios. Something else to consider is that using a pet skill is one of the most frustrating thing to deal with, and that's something to take into account when talking about Fey Illum.

So, while it's true that SCH have more potential tools for buffing its shields than the AST, their long cooldowns and weak multiplier don't really make that much of a difference. Dissipation will still be used mainly for its stacks reset effect, and Fey Illum will still be used for... well, simply giving you and your healing partner an easier time dealing with something, but not exclusively shielding people.

Again, I'm not saying these buffs are useless or anything like that. But the shielding aspect of the two jobs are mostly unaffected by them.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Hmm...what about Fey Illumination? It's a 10% healing potency buff for SCH. Since the shields are based on the cures, any increase in the cure potency = increase in the shield potency, right?
It has a big CD, but you included Deployment Tactics so shouldn't Fey Illumination count as well?

Because if you use a FI Adlo, that's 330 normal, 660 crit.
FI succor = 247.5

Just worth mentioning.

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Fey illumination is more of a party buffs than a mitigation helping tool.
Not that you won't ever land a succor on it, but the main reason you'll use it should be buffing HoTs or in heal heavy situations. But using for deployement in particular outside pre-pull doesn't seem that beneficial.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Fey illumination is more of a party buffs than a mitigation helping tool.

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Depending of the situation, but clearly not agree on Bahamut Ultimate.
Largess and Fey Illumination are for shields (Succor or Deployment).

Largess for sure, but fey illumination proc on any healing spell cast when its up. There's absolutly no reason to use for shield more than HoT. Especially not with deployement than can be buffed by for more better alternative that won't hinder raid healing like convalescence, nature's mine or even WAR tank stance when the boss isn't targetable.

10% healing buff on medica II/whispering dawn is much more of a matter than using it on succor, even though finding how that would could affect a succor or two is even better like all long duration/low effect skill in the game.
But I'm pretty sure that if you can consider fey illumination being needed to buff a shield, it one of those situation where sacred soil is better. The idea is that sacred soil save your life you the damage you take is arround 110% of your max HP. Lowest max HP currently are arround 40k, so best case sceario there's is a 40k damage AoE coming and your 40,001 HP RDM survive with 1 HP thanks to sacred soil and that's a 4K mitigation. But even a 150 potency shield should be arround 6k-8k, so currently it should be arround 9k-11k. but a 10% buff on this is only arround 1k more mitigation, lower than what sacred soil provide

I'm not sure on the Bahamut wild card change anything here, being available is a better quality on mechanic marathon, you would stack-up weaker spells for added bonus more on O4S "stack-up and get hit by train every 45 seconds" type of fight.
120 second cooldown for 10% stronger shield don't seem that juicy. If damage are that high, even fey covenant may indeed turn out better.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

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I was just pointing it out because I know in 06s with the many double aoes, it is something that I have done (which it also buffing my cohealer's heals/regens is a nice bonus).

Not saying it puts it above AST's shields, which really do seem really good especially for single target, just it seemed like you were going for a complete picture and I felt it was worth of an *.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Not saying it puts it above AST's shields, which really do seem really good especially for single target, just it seemed like you were going for a complete picture and I felt it was worth of an *.

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Oh, no. As I mentioned in my very first words, it was a "strict mitigation comparison", ie a listing of all the tools with a direct mitigation effect. And my conclusion is that it was absurd to compare them because of how different they work, which also impacts their mitigation aspect.

But yes, you can very much use Fey Illum/Dissipation the way you describe it, and the one Ceasaria mentioned. It was just a fact of these cooldowns not being strictly and directly mitigation ones.

Nocturnal Aspected Helios and Succor shield for virtually the same amount. The 20-ish potency difference from the Sect bonus is honestly laughable due to how trivial it is, and in no way outweights the advantages of the fairies, particularly Eos. Coupled with Covenant, the frequent availability from Sacred Soil and the occassional shield buffed by Illumination, plus how ridiculous Deployment Tactics can get when stacking heal+ buffs (which NoctAST can't abuse as well)... yeah, no. NoctAST is trash at mitigating compared to SCH.

Their single target shield is okay I guess.

Don't get carried away by the seemingly higher potencies, SCH is miles ahead better than NoctAST in pretty much every conveivable way. It's the result of the hilarious overbuffing we've been treated with for the past patches ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PD. I don't say all this to put NoctAST down. SCH is monstruously overpowered atm and NoctAST is the most inferior healer out of the three by far. That said, the healers are still the most balanced they've been for a very long time, so whether or not we need changes on any of them is errrr...

NoctAST could use some sort of buff, though.

They shouldn't have buffed succor so much imo.
I was for a slight buff because it was trash. 150/150 for 2200 (before the mana reduction) was laughable.
But I wasn't expecting to be buffed that much. It almost compete with A.Helios.

A.Helios should have kept his "strong" aspect.
Like, scholar has succor and deployment, but since Ast only has one aoe shield, it's between succor and deployment (in potencies)

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NoctAST could use some sort of buff, though.

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That's exactly what every one said about succor in 4.0, because supposedly NocAST was broken. Guess how it turned out.

I kept telling that SCH struggled because it didn't have a good identity, that reworking it most weird abilities into something that make sense was more important than buffs. The class still made sense in HW, because not having to manage MP with class that have most of their potency behind secondary ressources make sense. Having a permanent healing pet makes sense when you either heal or DPS, but not both at the same time.
But those two thing got tacled in SB, DPS skills got deleted, CS got deleted, mana usage was adjusted so that lucid dream was needed and that's not really good. Because SCH spells aren't made to be efficient, you're suppose to use your rarer eather flow ressources to do something, why would use a low effect spell when its cost can become a matter ? Everyone was crying about how infinite MP was broken, but the spells it allowed to use were the weakest out of the 3 healing jobs. In 4.0 they were made weak and costly, one of the numerous chapter on how SB intent to close the level gap between player backfired horribly.

You're just going full circles with the "X is trash" way of seeing the game. NocAST isn't trash, it's strengh haven't changed since the NeoExdeath solo heal. That whole "it's weak, buff it" though process absolutly always ended in complete disaster. And I mean just look at this : some person come saying "SCH 25-ish (120 sec CD) potency buff is something" and then some one else come saying "AST 25-ish (permanent) potency buff is nothing" the next day. I'm not sure how you can do something more absurd than this.

And I'm not sure how can anyone just repeat "but it's not about higher potencies" when the only thing that changed for SCH from 4.0 to here is potencies, mana cost and cooldown, wich mean it's global potency went up.
So yeah, it's about potency, and AST strengh is that it have more in-built potency in its skills while SCH have different tools to compensate it's usually weaker potencies. They're just cherries on top of a bigger cake.

Also, buff AST and it's on the loose yet again, bullying WHM yet again. So yeah, no, don't touch AST unless if it's for a significant overhaul. It doesn't really matter if SCH cool kids want to use sacred soil on CD because AST can't do that.
There's a problem with SCH since the start of stormblood anyway, that's what needs to be adressed. It clearly is badly balanced in a way or another, and this whole "I'm not shitting on AST, my dump just accidently dropped on it" thread is another sign on how SCH isn't really fine right now.

I said it when the SCH buffs were announced, and I stand by it; Except for the Quickened Aetherflow buff and returning Miasma II, all of the buffs we got to Succor/Indom/E.Tactics were terrible, and risk us going down the same path that AST took in HW - buffing random numbers sky high until the actual problems the class has are covered up by OP values.