An Alternative? to parsers..

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

At best, I am above average when it comes to how I'm doing with my DPS classes in the current Savage tier. I don't want to be perfect, nor am I trying to be perfect - however, I do aim to be better than 'trash noob' or 'bottom DPS' that I've been called before. I just get motivation from criticism to do better than before. And considering I'm approaching one year since entering FFXIV, I think that's really the best advice that anybody who has received criticism over their numbers/rotations can do - get better. Figure out what is wrong and work on what could be the problem - if it has merit, of course. Not all criticisms are valid.

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Geez i am glad i was never called that. I hope your determination keeps well! Savage content is super fun! Get that sky noodle!

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Originally Posted by Alma_karma

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I understand your point, but don't take it to the extreme. It's not about being an Ace at your job. Knowing the mechanics is one part, but knowing how to play your class effectively is the second one. No one here is expecting perfect play, either. Guides, videos, other players are there for you to improve. People also have standards. Like Cass said above, if there is someone holding them back, then you're ruining their fun. Is that fair? I'd say no.

That's why you, in this scenario, have to either: Look for a group that fits your vision of the game or make your own group stating the rules from the begining. Laid back run? As long as we clear? No salt? Go for it. No one is going to say anything. You'll get players that allign themselves with the way you play the game. This is because not everyone is like that one example you gave before. When pairing yourself up with the right kind of players, even with a grade system functioning, no one will care about it. The grade system wouldn't force you either, it just shows you where you're at. You can either go further or stay there, because either with it or without it, there is where you're at anyway. People that actually care for these factors will have a parser running and will most likely kick you anyway. Nothing changes. As much as it sucks when that happens, I'll refer myself to what I mentioned before: Gather like-minded individuals.

Also, games nowdays still have the ranking function. Other games have a "star" grade, giving you none to 5 stars based on your performance. It's an ongoing system for many, many, many mobile games which is a huge gaming market nowdays.

I'd help you out with Cass since we're on the same datacenter, but I don't have much time to play lately. x.x (From work I can use the forums np)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

good advices

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I do understand that I was holding them back during their bird farming which is why I would join learning parties instead of skip-soar parties. This game does a pretty lousy job at telling you what rotation is and how to properly meld. I learned from an fc mate and did improve. I might still not be top tier DPS but at least I'm not holding anyone back now. Im on ps4 so parsing isn't an option. Ty for the option of advice
as well.

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Originally Posted by Alma_karma

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You could try asking a trusted mate to parse you as well. During my last parsed run on RDM, I had used FFLOGs to figure out what one of the top RDMs on FFLOGs had done for his rotation, and I went with that. At the very least, with getting a parse, you can set a benchmark for yourself and start working to achieve an optimization that works well for your playstyle as well as being able to contribute higher damage numbers.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Yes I haven't got there yet but I remember the other dungeon raids and when it got bad I left because fighting results in not finishing the fight.

I am saying on a larger scale if a Parser was allowed then everyone who wanted it would be using it so each dungeon would have higher results of someone picking a fight over what they think is wrong and they could be party with a friend and because they kick other dude the friend leaves killing the dungeon and I don't know about you, I ain't flagging up again for 20-30 minute dungeons or waiting for replacements cause sometimes they never show up.

Bad enough you have to wait in a line and this would probably draw a huge line for me.

I could choose tank but I like to DPS.

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Wait, something just dawned on me about this post.

Do you not use the PF for 8-mans? You mentioned a queue...do you do all of your 8-mans (I see your level, so I don't think you've made it to The Royal Menagerie) through the Duty Finder?

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

ratings

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it was annoying for them im sure. Though I had been joining those laid back no salt runs. It was multiple runs i was told to git gud or git kicked by different people. I could care less about my ranking. I try not to impeed anyone now. I know my rotation, i use food, i meld my gear. I know now. But I know if I had been graded back when I first started I probably wouldn't have lasted very long. How can you grade on an MMO where it doesn't explain the basics of rotation. Just reading the tooltips isn't enough to figure out but a rotation is and how too use it properly. Especially if this is your first mmo and your asking on the novice network on how to improve. Git gud or git rekt right? Haha

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Who is going to figure out what the threshold for these grades is, and how are they going to determine what it should be? You see wide fluctuations in expected DPS on different fights due to the mechanics of that fight and group composition (a SAM paired with BRD and AST is going to look a lot better than the same one pared with BLM and WHM on any DPS measurement scale). SE having to assign someone to come up with grading criteria for every new piece of content they add, without having large quantities of sample points to work with because it's new content.

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This isn't actually much of a problem and the majority of the work can be avoided with a few tweaks to the proposition IMHO.

First off, the easiest approach to working about basic threshold values has already been done by logs. You just work out a series of averages from your big table of results and go from there, there's really no need to have an internal team do this (Beyond maybe throwing the QA team's score into the pot so the players can get scored from day one), once the code's in place, it'll do the maths itself. As the game evolves, so will the results.

Secondly, avoiding issues with party comp disparities is doable but it's not perfect. Going by potency per second takes much of the RNG away and also levels the playing field somewhat through ignoring party buffs and such. That still leaves jobs that might impact their own rotation to maintain a buff for others as well as jobs where some of their potency rests on RNG (eg bloodletter procs).

As long as the ranks were reasonably lenient I don't think these details would be impactful enough to actually prevent a decent player from scoring in a manner that they should. And let's face it, SE aren't going to implement something like this in casual content whilst expecting people to perform at a 99% percentile.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Fundamentally, the content itself needs to give you the risk of failure in order to address this problem. I'd much rather see them introduce enrage timers in Doma Castle or even earlier, instead of letting people get by until it suddenly slaps them in the face at endgame.

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Yeah agreed, I've said it so many times, but at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, Amdapor Keep was a fantastic dungeon because it did such a good job of preparing people for the end game.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

FFLOGS

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I'll have to look into that for future reference. Ty

How does the game determine whether the tank turned the boss towards the group and the melee got cleaved, or the dps ran in front of the boss to get cleaved? Whose rank goes down? How does the ranking system take into account tanks who move the mobs out of AoE or constantly spin the boss?

Does the tank get a lower rating if he goes in dps stance? If not, then how is a tank penalized in the ranking system if he focuses so much on dps that he doesn't hold aggro and other people start to take damage? Will dps be penalized for not using enmity reduction skills?

Effective healing is the same as party damage taken if you don't take into account self heals and passive regeneration. Is it fair that a healer gets a lower ranking if there is less to heal in a good party where stuns are used and mobs die faster? I think not. And who gets penalized if someone dies? Sometimes it's the healer's fault but sometimes it isn't.

Does the system recognize and reward the dps when they focus down priority targets (like bees) instead of padding the meter with AoE dps?

Are people going to be rewarded when they interact with objects to advance the fight and lose dps in the process?

If all of this is not taken into account, then we will have people getting annoyed not only for having slow runs sometimes but also getting their grade ruined by their party members. I'm still not convinced that a ranking system will ever be accurate in this game. They could implement it for fun I guess, but I wouldn't want any cosmetic rewards to come from it.

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Originally Posted by Alma_karma

I'll have to look into that for future reference. Ty

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I hope you don't mind, but I looked at your current numbers that were uploaded. From what I've seen, you've done some really nice improvement compared to your first log. I'd have to say the latest that you are at on O2S should be your baseline, and if you ever want to push for further optimization, go for it.